Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[TehDoak]

I hope they are.

Not just sports teams, but any business should know that when you are dealing with high performers and elite talent, the normal rules do not apply. If you insist upon a one size fits all, you will lose your elite performers

This is exactly what they did with Mittelstadt. They promised him NHL minutes if he signed and it backfired terribly. It took him years to get his development on track after being gifted a spot in the NHL well before he was ready. In fact it's only this year, D+6, that he looks like a NHL player. And that only happened because he was fortunate enough to play for a team that could gift him TOI the last 2 seasons because we were terrible.

I'm hoping the conversations were much more of the 'we expect you to spend some time next year in the AHL and re-evaluate where our goaltending is at in season. We will likely be adding goalie this summer, but there should be a full time spot for you in 2024 season if you play well"

 

[dortt]

This is exactly what they did with Mittelstadt. They promised him NHL minutes if he signed and it backfired terribly. It took him years to get his development on track after being gifted a spot in the NHL well before he was ready. In fact it's only this year, D+6, that he looks like a NHL player. And that only happened because he was fortunate enough to play for a team that could gift him TOI the last 2 seasons because we were terrible.

I'm hoping the conversations were much more of the 'we expect you to spend some time next year in the AHL and re-evaluate where our goaltending is at in season. We will likely be adding goalie this summer, but there should be a full time spot for you in 2024 season if you play well"

Mittlestadt was not an elite talent. He was a typical first round pick who was picked about 10 spots too high

It is clear that Levi is an elite talent, who has played 2-3 years in a mens league already. NCAA is not that far below AHL these days

 

[Dingo44]

How is ski boot technology making life easier for many NHL goalies?

Over the past two seasons, many goalies have switched to a laceless style that one calls "the future of goaltending skates."

theathletic.com

If there weren't issues with buckle durability, I would so want a pair if I were able to find a team to play goalie on.

I'd be so hesitant to switch from laces to buckles. Of course, I never made the move to goalie like my parents promised. But I remember having a buckle on regular ice skates and not being a fan. I also remember my Microns with the plastic shell and the removable boot.

I'll probably keep my Grafs as long as I can - it's a shame what happened to that company.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'd be so hesitant to switch from laces to buckles. Of course, I never made the move to goalie like my parents promised. But I remember having a buckle on regular ice skates and not being a fan. I also remember my Microns with the plastic shell and the removable boot.

I'll probably keep my Grafs as long as I can - it's a shame what happened to that company.

I had the Microns with the plastic shell and the removable boot when I was a Squirt and skated up and played goalie. I figured those skates would give me the most protection for playing in goal as there was no way my mom was buying two pairs of skates.

I wonder if Bauer goes with something like this in the future:

Laces 2.0 - Adult Skate Strap System (Stock Colors)

Laces 2.0 gets rid of skate laces permanently! We've seen others attempt to do this and fail. These are designed by hockey players for hockey players. The top strap securely holds your ankle in place without the normal in game loosening of skate laces. Cuts down the most time consuming part...

halohockey.com

 

[BloFan4Life]

This is exactly what they did with Mittelstadt. They promised him NHL minutes if he signed and it backfired terribly. It took him years to get his development on track after being gifted a spot in the NHL well before he was ready. In fact it's only this year, D+6, that he looks like a NHL player. And that only happened because he was fortunate enough to play for a team that could gift him TOI the last 2 seasons because we were terrible.

I'm hoping the conversations were much more of the 'we expect you to spend some time next year in the AHL and re-evaluate where our goaltending is at in season. We will likely be adding goalie this summer, but there should be a full time spot for you in 2024 season if you play well"

How convenient to avoid Power where they did the same thing.

 

[TehDoak]

Mittlestadt was not an elite talent. He was a typical first round pick who was picked about 10 spots too high

It is clear that Levi is an elite talent, who has played 2-3 years in a mens league already. NCAA is not that far below AHL these days

Mittelstadt had a great World Juniors in 2018 and was considered a top 5 forward prospect when he signed. He also had came off his freshman year in the NCAA.

 

[TehDoak]

How convenient to avoid Power where they did the same thing.

They had these discussions with Power prior to drafting him, everyone was on the same page overall. In any case, my HOPE is that the Sabres properly set expectations with him and explained that they would like him to get some time in the minors but he would have a shot at a full time NHL spot as soon as 2024 if he plays well in the AHL. Not that he would have a legit opportunity to be a starter next year.

 

[Dingo44]

I had the Microns with the plastic shell and the removable boot when I was a Squirt and skated up and played goalie. I figured those skates would give me the most protection for playing in goal as there was no way my mom was buying two pairs of skates.

I wonder if Bauer goes with something like this in the future:

Laces 2.0 - Adult Skate Strap System (Stock Colors)

Laces 2.0 gets rid of skate laces permanently! We've seen others attempt to do this and fail. These are designed by hockey players for hockey players. The top strap securely holds your ankle in place without the normal in game loosening of skate laces. Cuts down the most time consuming part...

halohockey.com

I have a love/hate relationship with laces but I can't see going to buckles/straps.

I once thought you couldn't tie your skates tight enough and I still believe if you're learning or not strong on your skates you should but I found that I liked to tie the lower half as tight as possible and I keep it relatively loose near the top.

But since I broke/tore/dislocated my left ankle going blade first into the boards a few years ago I haven't got back out there other than one rec skate and I might try to go tighter depending on how strong my ankle feels. I would love to play again.

 

[Husko]

Mittelstadt had a great World Juniors in 2018 and was considered a top 5 forward prospect when he signed. He also had came off his freshman year in the NCAA.

Which was a somewhat underwhelming season, iirc.

My only thought is of course they need to bring in a second real goalie, but it's hard to imagine a situation where Levi isn't our best option for at least half the games next year. If he's not or he struggles mightily, you send him down. But if he's the one that gives them the best chance to win, he should be the starter.

 

[Jim Bob]

Which was a somewhat underwhelming season, iirc.

My only thought is of course they need to bring in a second real goalie, but it's hard to imagine a situation where Levi isn't our best option for at least half the games next year. If he's not or he struggles mightily, you send him down. But if he's the one that gives them the best chance to win, he should be the starter.

The question is what do the Sabres do in goal between now and training camp.

Unfortunately, I am expecting Adams to take the path of least resistance at this point and go into camp with Levi, Comrie, and UPL. And if Levi isn't ready to be a difference maker at the NHL level, we will be in the same, or worse, boat next season that they were in this season.

I think they need to trade for a significant upgrade to UPL or Comrie and get a legit #1 that plays well behind the type of porous team defense the Sabres are likely to play again next season. The F+D are likely to be one of the youngest, if not the youngest, F+D rosters in the NHL next season. That is unlikely to mean marked improvements defensively.

But, we shall see.

 

[dkollidas]

I just don’t see much improvement available. Sure you could try to bring in a Raanta or Andersen type in free agency, but you don’t want anyone you’re locking up for more than 2 seasons.

You could package UPL with some nice things (picks prospects, etc) and try to trade for a goalie. But realistically, is Vancouver giving up on Demko? What’s their recourse without him? Same thing for Philadelphia with Hart, or Nashville with Saros. I see these clubs rebuilding AROUND solid netminders, not WITHOUT solid netminders.

UPL isn’t a legit starter, I don’t think he’ll ever develop into one. But I think he’s a solid backup. And he’s been our best goalie this year and nearly got a young, defensively deficient team to the playoffs.

Levi seems to have the trajectory. I’d love for them to bring in someone capable of justifying him being sent to Rochester… I just don’t know who that is or how they acquire that player.

If they do somehow acquire a goalie like Hart/Saros/Demko, I’d assume they’re using UPL as part of the deal. Then you’re talking about either having Comrie as the backup, which is ok I guess but not ideal, or having Levi back them up, which is fine but again probably not ideal.

Watching him a bit in college but particularly in these early stints, he definitely has the mentality to succeed and for a goalie I believe that’s the hardest part of it.

 

[BloFan4Life]

They had these discussions with Power prior to drafting him, everyone was on the same page overall. In any case, my HOPE is that the Sabres properly set expectations with him and explained that they would like him to get some time in the minors but he would have a shot at a full time NHL spot as soon as 2024 if he plays well in the AHL. Not that he would have a legit opportunity to be a starter next year.

So you don't think the Sabres had those discussions with Levi before he signed his contract?

It's a little strange how adamant you are about Levi playing in AHL next year. Levi would rather play in college next year than the AHL, which tells me he wasnt going to sign if they didn't offer him a spot in NHL.

 

[Zman5778]

Levi would rather play in college next year than the AHL

Gonna need a source on this one.

 

[Chainshot]

Which was a somewhat underwhelming season, iirc.

My only thought is of course they need to bring in a second real goalie, but it's hard to imagine a situation where Levi isn't our best option for at least half the games next year. If he's not or he struggles mightily, you send him down. But if he's the one that gives them the best chance to win, he should be the starter.

It was not a good year at Minny. Botterill should've left him for another instead of signing him, giving him some o-zone time as Eichel's LW to end the year and set up Casey the following year where it was clear from early on that Mitts needed to go down (as did Thompson) and they lagged. His lack of development to Doak's point above is traceable to Botterill doing both signing him earlier and then keeping him on the team for too long.

Getting back to the topic though - Levi goes tonight:

 

[TehDoak]

So you don't think the Sabres had those discussions with Levi before he signed his contract?

From what it sounds like they absolutely had the discussions. My concern is that promises were made about ice time, opportunity, etc. You had claimed that since the same thing was done with Power, it's not a big deal. Power was a 1st overall draft pick and they talked about his plans BEFORE drafting him, not as part of an active contract negotiation with Levi. Everyone was on the same page before we drafted him. Levi had the real threat of going back another year and walking if he didn't like what he heard.

It's a little strange how adamant you are about Levi playing in AHL next year. Levi would rather play in college next year than the AHL, which tells me he wasnt going to sign if they didn't offer him a spot in NHL.

He's a 21 year old in a position you can't shelter. In fact, we are one of the worst teams in the league at supporting our goalies. We hang them out to try on a regular basis. He's coming from a league where they play 40 games a year to a league they play 82. I get the NCAA is a more 'NHL-like' than the OHL, it's still not a pro league. He should get a full season in the AHL barring injury with our team.

He's got the potential to be an incredible talent and a franchise goalie. The jump from the NCAA to the NHL is a big one. Why in the world would you put him in a position to play behind one of the worst defensive teams in the league if you don't have to.

Put him in Rochester. Make sure we have a good goalie coach and he's driving to Rochester on a regular basis to work with him 1 on 1. Get a good AHL defense in front of him. Support him through the transition. Improve the team defense at the NHL level. Sign a good goalie who can play with him in tandem in 2024-25.

I remember Ryan Miller in tears after he got blown out by his hometown team when we handed him the starters role before he was ready because we didn't have a great goalie. Why would you want to revisit that on Levi?

Levi, through various circumstances could end up our starting goalie by the end of next season. If Injuries makes an opportunity and he could grab the job and never let go. And if that happens, great.

However, it shouldn't be plan A. Our plan needs to be him getting quality starts behind the best defense you can buy at the AHL level with plenty of support from the Sabres in getting him acclimated to the professional game.

 

[Diaspora]

From what it sounds like they absolutely had the discussions. My concern is that promises were made about ice time, opportunity, etc. You had claimed that since the same thing was done with Power, it's not a big deal. Power was a 1st overall draft pick and they talked about his plans BEFORE drafting him, not as part of an active contract negotiation with Levi. Everyone was on the same page before we drafted him. Levi had the real threat of going back another year and walking if he didn't like what he heard.



He's a 21 year old in a position you can't shelter. In fact, we are one of the worst teams in the league at supporting our goalies. We hang them out to try on a regular basis. He's coming from a league where they play 40 games a year to a league they play 82. I get the NCAA is a more 'NHL-like' than the OHL, it's still not a pro league. He should get a full season in the AHL barring injury with our team.

He's got the potential to be an incredible talent and a franchise goalie. The jump from the NCAA to the NHL is a big one. Why in the world would you put him in a position to play behind one of the worst defensive teams in the league if you don't have to.

Put him in Rochester. Make sure we have a good goalie coach and he's driving to Rochester on a regular basis to work with him 1 on 1. Get a good AHL defense in front of him. Support him through the transition. Improve the team defense at the NHL level. Sign a good goalie who can play with him in tandem in 2024-25.

I remember Ryan Miller in tears after he got blown out by his hometown team when we handed him the starters role before he was ready because we didn't have a great goalie. Why would you want to revisit that on Levi?

Levi, through various circumstances could end up our starting goalie by the end of next season. If Injuries makes an opportunity and he could grab the job and never let go. And if that happens, great.

However, it shouldn't be plan A. Our plan needs to be him getting quality starts behind the best defense you can buy at the AHL level with plenty of support from the Sabres in getting him acclimated to the professional game.

The tears just proved how bad Miller wanted it. There's no shame in that. I'm not going to put any value on it -- different man, different time -- especially considering what came after. Improve the NHL defense, and the risk to Levi can be mitigated.

He's making a case that he can handle pressure pretty well. He needs to earn every start at any level, next year and every year. Get him a competent 1A to push against. If he can't handle the NHL, send him down.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Diaspora]

Love to see the replies on the press release.

 

[Jim Bob]

Make it 6...

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Huge grain of salt with the source, but pham mentioned this morning on wgr if you see a change in the Sabres goaltending this offseason it could be moving on from Bales.

 

[Chainshot]

Huge grain of salt with the source, but pham mentioned this morning on wgr if you see a change in the Sabres goaltending this offseason it could be moving on from Bales.

Given the results while he's been in that position, sure. It's a performance industry, his people have not performed.

I wonder if they would consider Condon.

 

[Zman5778]

Huge grain of salt with the source, but pham mentioned this morning on wgr if you see a change in the Sabres goaltending this offseason it could be moving on from Bales.

Hey, that'd be 100% fine with me. His work with the goalies hasn't impressed me at all.

 

[oldgoalie]

Levi getting the start again tonight. They've got to give a game or two to UPL or Comrie in this 4 in 6, don't they?

 

[Zman5778]

Levi getting the start again tonight. They've got to give a game or two to UPL or Comrie in this 4 in 6, don't they?

Do they HAVE to? Yeah, probably -- but my bet is that one of them doesn't get another game this year.

Tonight/Tuesday -- Levi then UPL or Comrie
Friday/Saturday -- Anderson (if healthy) then Levi

If Anderson can't go, then my bet is that whoever doesn't get Tuesday's game gets Saturday's game while Levi goes tonight and the home finale Friday.

 

[dortt]

if we are in it with a chance tomorrow., Levi is probably being ridden

No charity games at this point. Granato already said he would play Levi in back to back

Anderson will not play Thursday unless we are eliminated.