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Is USA hockey's window smaller than we think ?

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Tutu to said:
Kinda like the WJC?

Either way the WBC is the closest thing they have to best on best baseball and Japan has done better then America. In Canada we claim to be the best due to results not because we have the best team on paper.
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Wjc is literally just the best players currently playing junior hockey.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I dunno that I'd call it terrific. It's good enough to keep up but it's not dominant like Canada is with forwards. To me, the US is on, if not above their level on defense.

I dunno WTF happened to them in net. Not a lot of great options and you look at the top goalie prospects coming and they have Cossa and Levi yeah, but Russia is just a goalie cranking machine and the US isn't doing bad either.
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Yes, the defense is obviously still very good but not what it used to be.
 
I don't know about a window. The Olympics are one year away. USA will have a similar team, as will Canada. Obviously both will look to improve on things but either way the US will be a contender literally in 12 months. So for sure they could win in 2026. I mean, 2025 went to overtime. It isn't as if they couldn't have won now. It was close.

I do understand the spirit of this original post. And it reminds me a bit from the 1996 World Cup. The Americans even in 1991 were on the rise, but Canada was so stacked in 1991 (especially with the players who didn't play) that I don't think people thought the US would win 5 years later. But they did. And their players were younger than Canada's in 1996. We had Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Yzerman, etc. and obviously lots of under 30 talent but our core was older. The Americans' core was younger. Lots of guys playing the best hockey of their lives. 25 years old for example. 1998 was more of the same, the Americans weren't old then either. But in 2002 that same core was over 30 and there weren't players coming up in the pipeline for them. Canada had a veteran roster in 2002 but had some younger talent and definitely had players coming up the pipeline. 2004 the US had much of the same core from 1996. There just wasn't those stars coming up. In 2010 we had a stacked team and the U.S. didn't. They made the game a lot closer than it should have been but it was obvious to me that looking back that strong core was from 1996-'02 for them. With 2002 proving they were getting longer in the tooth.

1996 reminds me of 2025. The U.S. has a young team with lots of talent and they should be good at least for the next two best on bests, 2026 and 2028. Canada will still be insanely strong in 2030, and I am not sure if the U.S. has those players to replace the ones playing right now. But we'll have to see.
 
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I like to frame it from a different perspective, put Canada in the US's shoes, in 2025 if Canada had not won a mens level tournament since 1996 there would be utter chaos in Canada and within the Hockey Canada program, regardless or not if we had great players and a decent team on paper, regardless or not if we made finals and came close losing in OT to the best, if the results aren't there it means absolutely nothing.

At some point you have put up or shut up. Moral victories go only go so far.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Wjc is literally just the best players currently playing junior hockey.
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Yes, but not the best U20 players. Those guys are already in the NHL. Hell, Bedard still could've played in Ottawa. So could have Celebrini. I"m sure there is an American in the NHL too.
 
Peiskos said:
I like to frame it from a different perspective, put Canada in the US's shoes, in 2025 if Canada had not won a mens level tournament since 1996 there would be utter chaos in Canada and within the Hockey Canada program, regardless or not if we had great players and a decent team on paper, regardless or not if we made finals and came close losing in OT to the best, if the results aren't there it means absolutely nothing.

At some point you have put up or shut up. Moral victories go only go so far.
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We went insane after losing in 1996 and in 1998. I remember that. So yeah there would be pandemonium if we hadn't won in three decades. Heck, people harp on about the Habs being the last Canadian team to win the Cup and that has no bearing on Canadian players or Canadian hockey.
 
Peiskos said:
I like to frame it from a different perspective, put Canada in the US's shoes, in 2025 if Canada had not won a mens level tournament since 1996 there would be utter chaos in Canada and within the Hockey Canada program, regardless or not if we had great players and a decent team on paper, regardless or not if we made finals and came close losing in OT to the best, if the results aren't there it means absolutely nothing.

At some point you have put up or shut up. Moral victories go only go so far.
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The U.S. team is amazing - big and talented. The 2015-2019 drafts really paid off.

Non Canadian posters just need to recognize how strong OUR drafts are from 2020-2026.
 
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Peiskos said:
I like to frame it from a different perspective, put Canada in the US's shoes, in 2025 if Canada had not won a mens level tournament since 1996 there would be utter chaos in Canada and within the Hockey Canada program, regardless or not if we had great players and a decent team on paper, regardless or not if we made finals and came close losing in OT to the best, if the results aren't there it means absolutely nothing.

At some point you have put up or shut up. Moral victories go only go so far.
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THIS..

If international hockey were a Rocky Movie.. Canada is Rocky and always winning in the end. Sure, Creed looked great. Sure, Drago looked great. Mr T was a menace. But it always ends with Rocky fighting a new opponent and winning. Might be Russians, Americans, Swedes or Finn's (Skoda rivalry) but Canada is the stable piece in the argument.

And I say all this as a fan of another country.lol
 
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Tutu to said:
Kinda like the WJC?

Either way the WBC is the closest thing they have to best on best baseball and Japan has done better then America. In Canada we claim to be the best due to results not because we have the best team on paper.
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You cant be serious. Like maybe 30% of the best players play in the WBC. The WJC has about 95% of the best players.

Try comparing the WBC to the Mens World Championships, and then you might have a more accurate comparison.
 
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Czechboy said:
Yes, but not the best U20 players. Those guys are already in the NHL. Hell, Bedard still could've played in Ottawa. So could have Celebrini. I"m sure there is an American in the NHL too.
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They had played in the world juniors in their last year as junior players. When they graduated to nhl they weren’t junior players at that point.
 
WarriorofTime said:
They had played in the world juniors in their last year as junior players. When they graduated to nhl they weren’t junior players at that point.
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Yes but it isn't a junior tournament.. it is a U20 tournament. Several Czechs play professionally as well.. Sweden, Finland, extraliga and NLA.

It is about the age not the league.
 
Czechboy said:
Yes but it isn't a junior tournament.. it is a U20 tournament. Several Czechs play professionally as well.. Sweden, Finland, extraliga and NLA.

It is about the age not the league.
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If you’re in the nhl you’re not in the tournament but otherwise you’re still a prospect developing. That’s generally how it’s always worked.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
You cant be serious. Like maybe 30% of the best players play in the WBC. The WJC has about 95% of the best players.

Try comparing the WBC to the Mens World Championships, and then you might have a more accurate comparison.
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The IIHF Men's WC is still a very important barometer in international hockey, its main purpose is to display the depth of a nation, Canada for example has been able to win it now and again, from 2003, 2004, 2007, 2015, 2016, 2021, 2023. Many countries have been able to produce results like the Swedes in 2006, 2013, 2017, 2018, many others too like Czechs in 2010, 2024 or Finns in 2011, 2019, 2022.

Yes the entire best rosters and players aren't there, but to be able to win it is still a challenge and it's still relevant. It's a good tool to check depth and overall health of your hockey program.
 
Peiskos said:
The IIHF Men's WC is still a very important barometer in international hockey, its main purpose is to display the depth of a nation, Canada for example has been able to win it now and again, from 2003, 2004, 2007, 2015, 2016, 2021, 2023. Many countries have been able to produce results like the Swedes in 2006, 2013, 2017, 2018, many others too like Czechs in 2010, 2024 or Finns in 2011, 2019, 2022.

Yes the entire best rosters and players aren't there, but to be able to win it is still a challenge and it's still relevant. It's a good tool to check depth and overall health of your hockey program.
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I agree. it is a wonderful indicator of depth for Canada.
 
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Peiskos said:
Lol best joke I've heard in 2025 yet. Margins of victory are irrelevant, what matters is results. Canada has now won 73% of all best vs best tournaments ever played. Including the last 4 in a row, but ya window is closing 🤣 PS world junior results aren't a real barometer of future results, nothing ever came of the US's world junior golds in 2004, 2010 and 2013 for example. Canada also won b2b world juniors in 2022 and 2023, in a few years can I say the US's window is closing because their world junior b2b is now a couple years away?

Every best vs best in history :

1. 1972 Summit Series - Canada win (1)
2. 1976 Canada Cup - Canada win (2)
3. 1981 Canada Cup - USSR win (1)
4. 1984 Canada Cup - Canada win (3)
5. 1987 Canada Cup - Canada win (4)
6. 1991 Canada Cup - Canada win (5)
7. 1996 World Cup - USA win (1)
8. 1998 Olympics - Czech win (1)
9. 2002 Olympics - Canada win (6)
10. 2004 World Cup - Canada win (7)
11. 2006 Olympics - Sweden win (1)
12. 2010 Olympics - Canada win (8)
13. 2014 Olympics - Canada win (9)
14. 2016 World Cup - Canada win (10)
15. 2025 4 Nations Cup - Canada win (11)

You've somehow managed to equate utter dominance at the highest level to Canada'a window closing, very interesting.
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Lmao you see that NINE year gap from 2025? That’s so far in the rear view mirror 2016 and years back is irrelevant to “window ‘ discussion.
You won a 4 game tournament in OT and you think that’s dominant? Canada got lucky and everyone but Canada knows it.
 
Peiskos said:
The IIHF Men's WC is still a very important barometer in international hockey, its main purpose is to display the depth of a nation, Canada for example has been able to win it now and again, from 2003, 2004, 2007, 2015, 2016, 2021, 2023. Many countries have been able to produce results like the Swedes in 2006, 2013, 2017, 2018, many others too like Czechs in 2010, 2024 or Finns in 2011, 2019, 2022.

Yes the entire best rosters and players aren't there, but to be able to win it is still a challenge and it's still relevant. It's a good tool to check depth and overall health of your hockey program.
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I'm not sure what this has to do with if Japan is the best baseball nation.
 
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