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Is USA hockey's window smaller than we think ?

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FlappyGiraffe said:
Bedard, Celebrini, Schaefer, McKenna, Dupont.

McDavid and Makar will still be top end players for a good portion of that new wave
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Fortunately the goalie is the single most important player in the game. The US needs to make a decision on Hellebuyck. I personally feel the Bennett goal was not a good goal to give up as he kept backing in to the net. He was getting close to banging his head on the crossbar. McKinnon's was one he should be better on. So in retrospect one of those two he has to save.

Honestly I wouldn't stay with him and would go with the only guy who has had a lights out Stanley Cup series that he won in front of a not really good team and that is Swayman.
 
Peiskos said:
1. 1972 Summit Series - Canada win (1)
2. 1976 Canada Cup - Canada win (2)
3. 1981 Canada Cup - USSR win (1)
4. 1984 Canada Cup - Canada win (3)
5. 1987 Canada Cup - Canada win (4)
6. 1991 Canada Cup - Canada win (5)
7. 1996 World Cup - USA win (1)
8. 1998 Olympics - Czech win (1)
9. 2002 Olympics - Canada win (6)
10. 2004 World Cup - Canada win (7)
11. 2006 Olympics - Sweden win (1)
12. 2010 Olympics - Canada win (8)
13. 2014 Olympics - Canada win (9)
14. 2016 World Cup - Canada win (10)
15. 2025 4 Nations Cup - Canada win (11)
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Sure BUT Canada almost lost last week in OT and lost a round robin game.

It's simple math. Round robin wins are as valuable as gold medal games being won.

Also, you can't use last weekend as proof and you can't use 2016 to 1998 because that is a long time ago.

All that matters is world junior, U18 results and NHL rosters. You can even declare yourself the best hockey nation in the world without a single gold medal in the trophy case in the 2000's.

My point is that winning international tournaments requires a lot of things to go right. The only country they seem to always go right for is Canada. They seem to overcome everything very consistently while the other nations blame coaches, referrees, roster selections and their stars playing poorly.
 
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KillerMillerTime said:
Fortunately the goalie is the single most important player in the game. The US needs to make a decision on Hellebuyck. I personally feel the Bennett goal was not a good goal to give up as he kept backing in to the net. He was getting close to banging his head on the crossbar. McKinnon's was one he should be better on. So in retrospect one of those two he has to save.

Honestly I wouldn't stay with him and would go with the only guy who has had a lights out Stanley Cup series that he won in front of a not really good team and that is Swayman.
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I am sure this applies to MANY goalies, but Helly seems to struggle against HIGH shots. It will be interesting to see how he plays in the playoffs leading the best team in the West.
 
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ORRFForever said:
The U.S. has more young boys playing soccer than almost any other country in the world. How has that turned out?


I don't think so. LOL.

People will see what they want to see - myself included, but if someone is being completely objective, there's NO way to deny the high end talent (both quality and quantity) Canada has produced since 2020.
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The US national soccer program is as talented as it has ever been. Their roster is littered with guys playing in the best leagues and the most high profile teams. They are also a group of underachievers when put together though.

The program has come a very long way, but it was always going to be a slow build, and it started back in 1994 when they hosted the world cup for the first time.
 
Strange premise. There is no window. Long-term trends suggest the US will continue to produce the 2nd most NHLers and continue to close the gap on Canada over the coming decades. Overall talent and depth are much better than they were 15 years ago.

That said I don't begrudge Canadian chest pounding given current off-topic events/circumstances regarding our nations.
 
AD1066 said:
Strange premise. There is no window. Long-term trends suggest the US will continue to produce the 2nd most NHLers and continue to close the gap on Canada over the coming decades. Overall talent and depth are much better than they were 15 years ago.

That said I don't begrudge Canadian chest pounding given current off-topic events/circumstances regarding our nations.
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I agree about the window comment. It suggest the US is in some unsustainable era.

In reality, they've arrived as one of the premier hockey nations since 1996, and they never really let go of that label since then.
 
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One of the dumber threads in recent memory. Was a single prominent U.S. player even over 30? Have we not dominated the last two WJCs?
 
One issue for the U.S. in 2026 and 2028...

Injuries to their BIG men...

Brady's injured. M.T.'s injured. As a Leaf fan, Matthews is ALWAYS hurt and aging poorly. Eichel's back. At the 4 Nations, the U.S. looked like a M*A*S*H unit up front.

I think the U.S. wins in 2026 but that might change if some of their BIG stars continue to have injury issues.
 
ORRFForever said:
I am sure this applies to MANY goalies, but Helly seems to struggle against HIGH shots. It will be interesting to see how he plays in the playoffs leading the best team in the West.
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Hellebyuck has played an obscene amount of games in the last several years. Only vasilevsky was keeping up to that total until he went under the knife.

This year, the jets have been rolling all year. I dont know why they don't try resting him more often to see if that helps him keep his level into April. Not only do they have the luxury to do that, but considering the 4 nations on top of that. I'd argue it's a more important consideration than ever.
 
JianYang said:
The US national soccer program is as talented as it has ever been. Their roster is littered with guys playing in the best leagues and the most high profile teams. They are also a group of underachievers when put together though.

The program has come a very long way, but it was always going to be a slow build, and it started back in 1994 when they hosted the world cup for the first time.
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They suffer a bit from what USA Hockey does, losing best athletes to other sports.

ORRFForever said:
I think we may have a Canada vs Canada Stanley Cup Final in 2025. :)
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Its a realistic chance amongst Edmonton, Winnipeg and Toronto. Possibly an
all USA Goalie final.
 
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Ducks4Cup said:
How does canadas u20 have an edge when they didn’t even medal?
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You have to objectively look at quality / quantity of players Canada has cranked off since 2000. Just like the U.S. had some AMAZING drafts from 2015-2019, Canada has even better drafts from 2000 - 2026.

Could the U.S. win in 2030+, of course, but, on paper, Canada will be hard to compete against.

Canada is about to jump ahead. If you don't agree, no worries, BoB 2030+ will be the proof in the pudding.
 
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KillerMillerTime said:
They suffer a bit from what USA Hockey does, losing best athletes to other sports.


Its a realistic chance amongst Edmonton, Winnipeg and Toronto. Possibly an
all USA Goalie final.
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My gut : Edmonton vs Toronto - Edmonton wins.

**

Toronto is a crazy team, though. They could go to the finals or lose, as they always do, in Round 1 - you never know with them.
 
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KillerMillerTime said:
They suffer a bit from what USA Hockey does, losing best athletes to other sports.
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It's a diverse population with 350 million people to draw from. It shouldn't be an issue.

To put things in perspective, the final 4 teams in the last world cup had a combined population of about 150 million.

I mean, the US aren't the best talent pool in the world, but the world is big place, and they do have guys playing for the biggest teams at the club level.
 
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93LEAFS said:
I don't think this is exactly accurate. Hockey unlike other sports isn't something you can pick up once people realize you are significantly more athletic than your peers and dominate like Football or basketball. Most people who make the NHL pick it up at 6 years old or so, and are probably on ice at a younger age than that. So, yes, maybe the very athletic kids already in hockey stick with it, but less and less are picking up hockey at a young age simply due to the costs associated with the sport. So much of hockey is about being fluid on your skates, and if you don't have reps doing that a ton at a young age you will be way behind. Whereas the motions in Football, and Basketball are quite natural to pick up later, since most athletic people know how to run and jump.
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Canada is also becoming increasingly diverse which hurts hockey .
 
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Last 5 drafts: Top 10 picks, total out of 50:
Can: 23
USA: 8
SWE: 5
Russ: 5
Slov: 3
Aus: 3
CZE, GER, BEL: 1 each
Never mind USA window, what the h is going on in Finland?
 
ORRFForever said:
The defense is terrific.

Yes, goaltending is a serious issue - thankfully we only need ONE.
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I dunno that I'd call it terrific. It's good enough to keep up but it's not dominant like Canada is with forwards. To me, the US is on, if not above their level on defense.

I dunno WTF happened to them in net. Not a lot of great options and you look at the top goalie prospects coming and they have Cossa and Levi yeah, but Russia is just a goalie cranking machine and the US isn't doing bad either.
 
JianYang said:
It's a diverse population with 350 million people to draw from. It shouldn't be an issue.

To put things in perspective, the final 4 teams in the last world cup had a combined population of about 150 million.

I mean, the US aren't the best talent pool in the world, but the world is big place, and they do have guys playing for the biggest teams at the club level.
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For sure you think the population should be big enough to field a great 18 players.

Use to have discussions with my cousin a long time NCAA D1 Head Coach.
One year he went into the NCAA tourney #1 and lost to Indiana early.

He agreed that the best athletes didn't play soccer or continue to play soccer
after a certain point.

My son was a AAA Soccer player a couple of years and stopped after playing
1 year 11 on 11. Felt it was too boring, not enough touches. He concentrated mostly on hockey and some baseball which he played varsity 2 years on some very good HS Teams.
 
FriendlyGhost92 said:
I dunno that I'd call it terrific. It's good enough to keep up but it's not dominant like Canada is with forwards. To me, the US is on, if not above their level on defense.

I dunno WTF happened to them in net. Not a lot of great options and you look at the top goalie prospects coming and they have Cossa and Levi yeah, but Russia is just a goalie cranking machine and the US isn't doing bad either.
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I love our D...

Makar is the best D Man in the NHL.
Toews, while NOT perfect, is a wonderful partner for Makar.
Morrisey is terrific.
Theodore and Pietrangelo will make a wonderful pairing.
Harley is 23 and proved he belonged.
I thought Doughty was amazing at the 4NC.

We do need some younger Right D men to step up soon - Pietrangelo won't last forever, and the cupboard is bare.
 
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