Speculation: Roster Building thread - Part XVII - (TDL is March 7th)

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Many of you are tremendously short sighted and single minded. Thinking that having a .550 record and a bunch of fruitless playoff appearances is somehow better than being a non-playoff team who eventually drafts their own version of Jack Eichel and Quinn Hughes is unbelievably narrow minded. Going through 4-5 years of being a bottom feeder watching THIS team would be unbearable. 4-5 years of watching this team plus a rookie Stutzle and rookie Makar would be exciting and give you tons of hope for the future. Barkov and Morrisey. Matthews and Dahlin. Aho and Heiskanen. It doesn’t matter; every combination is better than what we have (of course we literally had a cursed 1/2 OA somehow).

Of course many rebuilds fail. You need a mixture of many things - one being a solid GM, but another which we will always have is the ability to attract talent despite not being competitive at that time. Buffalo would need a massive resurgence to attract UFAs. Even with McDavid, not many want to play in Canada and almost no one wants to play in Edmonton. Even Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin wasn’t exactly a destination. NYC always will be. Chicago had a rebuild and it resulted in 3 Cups. They’re very early in a rebuild right now and have good pieces in place. They’re an O6 team that doesn’t have trouble attracting players. Don’t compare our situation to teams like Buffalo. They’re a master class in mismanagement. They could have Eichel/Thompson/Reinhart/Dahlin/Power as their core. The Devils may not have had much success yet, but you’re nothing but a homer if you don’t see that they are positioned light years ahead of us right now. They did their rebuild well. The next 3-5 years is what’s important in judging them, not the recent past.

We could rebuild faster and more effectively than many teams, especially if we were willing to cash in our largest chips before their clauses kick in and render them valueless due to NMCs. You think we win the Cup next year, when a Fox is 28 and Shesty is 30? You think we just need 2 years? Fox is 29 and Shesty 31. 3 years? Fox is 30 now. He’s probably faster than ever. Personally? I wouldn’t put down $100 for a chance at $1,000,000 that we win within 2 years. So we’re at least looking at 30 year old Fox and 32 year old Shesterkin who are both worthless because they have NMCs that allow them to choose where they go, if anywhere. This team doesn’t have a bright future. You can call it gloom casting and whatever other cutesie name you want to give it, but most of you are simply living in denial. I would love one of you to outline a realistic path to success within 24 months instead of just claiming I’m being dramatic. We are 100% firmly entrenched in the worst place possible - no man’s land. Those of you who prefer narrowly missing the playoffs or getting 6 post season games a year over trying to correctly build a winner are exactly what keeps Dolan cashing in on the playoff revenue.
 
And this year will be over soon and we’ll be in a brand new world. Teams have gone from missing the playoffs to a cup before.
Do you think the Rangers are presently consisted to do that? Do you think Drury is the right GM to make that happen? Do you think Laviolette is the right coach to make the pieces work?

If there’s going to be a lot of work to do, are the right people in positions to do that work. If not there’s even more work to do.

I mean this is a novel concept but at some point you need evidence to show there is a realistic route to this being achievable
 
Do you think the Rangers are presently consisted to do that? Do you think Drury is the right GM to make that happen? Do you think Laviolette is the right coach to make the pieces work?

If there’s going to be a lot of work to do, are the right people in positions to do that work. If not there’s even more work to do.

I mean this is a novel concept but at some point you need evidence to show there is a realistic route to this being achievable

Blowing everything up is not a realistic route. I think it's really funny also that you just decided to group Florida and Vegas into a "no tax state" bucket so that you can ignore that there are other routes to winning. The first 15 years of the cap apparently that wasn't a thing, but then Tampa won and all of a sudden this is a thing.

Edit: And if you can create a "no tax state bucket" and use the Rangers resources as a reason why they won't be Buffalo. I'll use the Rangers resources as a "most high profile city in North America" bucket and say we don't have to bottom out to get talent.
 


Interesting take. The top NHL players will sign shorter term contracts looking to maximize their earnings with the cap increasing every year. Look for better situations. I would rather give a player $20M per for two years than $15M for 6-7 years.
 
Many of you are tremendously short sighted and single minded. Thinking that having a .550 record and a bunch of fruitless playoff appearances is somehow better than being a non-playoff team who eventually drafts their own version of Jack Eichel and Quinn Hughes is unbelievably narrow minded. Going through 4-5 years of being a bottom feeder watching THIS team would be unbearable. 4-5 years of watching this team plus a rookie Stutzle and rookie Makar would be exciting and give you tons of hope for the future. Barkov and Morrisey. Matthews and Dahlin. Aho and Heiskanen. It doesn’t matter; every combination is better than what we have (of course we literally had a cursed 1/2 OA somehow).

Of course many rebuilds fail. You need a mixture of many things - one being a solid GM, but another which we will always have is the ability to attract talent despite not being competitive at that time. Buffalo would need a massive resurgence to attract UFAs. Even with McDavid, not many want to play in Canada and almost no one wants to play in Edmonton. Even Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin wasn’t exactly a destination. NYC always will be. Chicago had a rebuild and it resulted in 3 Cups. They’re very early in a rebuild right now and have good pieces in place. They’re an O6 team that doesn’t have trouble attracting players. Don’t compare our situation to teams like Buffalo. They’re a master class in mismanagement. They could have Eichel/Thompson/Reinhart/Dahlin/Power as their core. The Devils may not have had much success yet, but you’re nothing but a homer if you don’t see that they are positioned light years ahead of us right now. They did their rebuild well. The next 3-5 years is what’s important in judging them, not the recent past.

We could rebuild faster and more effectively than many teams, especially if we were willing to cash in our largest chips before their clauses kick in and render them valueless due to NMCs. You think we win the Cup next year, when a Fox is 28 and Shesty is 30? You think we just need 2 years? Fox is 29 and Shesty 31. 3 years? Fox is 30 now. He’s probably faster than ever. Personally? I wouldn’t put down $100 for a chance at $1,000,000 that we win within 2 years. So we’re at least looking at 30 year old Fox and 32 year old Shesterkin who are both worthless because they have NMCs that allow them to choose where they go, if anywhere. This team doesn’t have a bright future. You can call it gloom casting and whatever other cutesie name you want to give it, but most of you are simply living in denial. I would love one of you to outline a realistic path to success within 24 months instead of just claiming I’m being dramatic. We are 100% firmly entrenched in the worst place possible - no man’s land. Those of you who prefer narrowly missing the playoffs or getting 6 post season games a year over trying to correctly build a winner are exactly what keeps Dolan cashing in on the playoff revenue.
The Rangers are on a path for impending doom. All of the players are having horrible years. We can't trade this player or that player. Why not?

Did Panarin play yesterday? Was he scratched along with Kreider? I have had enough of Kreider's act. He complained about his back bothering him in November or December. OK. Use the 4 nations break for some rest. He played in the tournament. Other players like Pietrangelo dropped out to deal with whatever injury they are dealing with to be ready for Vegas's playoff run. I am sure Petro is a proud Canadian boy. Kreider barely played in the 2nd game VS Canada. He was probably injured during the tournament. The Rangers are your employer and they are paying you. No care about them.

All of the Rangers players besides Cuylle have taken a step back. Cuylle has 15 goals. He would have more than 15 with more responsibility.

Panarin
Zibanejad
Kreider
Lafreniere
Trocheck
Fox
Lindgren
Schneider
Miller
Igor



Bad.

Do you think the Rangers are presently consisted to do that? Do you think Drury is the right GM to make that happen? Do you think Laviolette is the right coach to make the pieces work?

If there’s going to be a lot of work to do, are the right people in positions to do that work. If not there’s even more work to do.

I mean this is a novel concept but at some point you need evidence to show there is a realistic route to this being achievable
Drury is not capable of these moves.
 
Nobody is expecting a kings ransom. Except maybe for Panarin.

moving guys like Kreider, ZiB, and Lindgren Is the very definition of addition by subtraction.

Getting their money and their personalities out of this team is worth more than any 1st round pick
Those 3 gone almost would pay for a McDavid and he likely would be a bigger factor . Can this club go another season with actual Cap space and not waste it and wait patiently for a real big fish that can still swim ? Time will tell....
 
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Blowing everything up is not a realistic route. I think it's really funny also that you just decided to group Florida and Vegas into a "no tax state" bucket so that you can ignore that there are other routes to winning. The first 15 years of the cap apparently that wasn't a thing, but then Tampa won and all of a sudden this is a thing.
It’s suddenly a thing because it became a thing. Look at the teams in the cup final over the last ten years. The most recent ten years is more relevant than the first 15 years; especially when at the beginning many teams didn’t know what they were doing.
Edit: And if you can create a "no tax state bucket" and use the Rangers resources as a reason why they won't be Buffalo. I'll use the Rangers resources as a "most high profile city in North America" bucket and say we don't have to bottom out to get talent.
Buffalo isn’t an original six team in one of the major cities in America. As long as players want to play for original six teams, and as long as players want to play in NYC, the Rangers have that advantage
 
I mean this is a nice dream but it’s not aligned to reality

There is no one sitting in the minors right now that is going to fix all the fundamental problems this team has.
Yeah, but that's not the pt
The pt is, bern is right, win now instant gratification approach is wrong
and the faster you start to build the faster we will get to where we all want to go

this means acquiring quality youth so there ARE peeps in the minors eventually to the rescue
THAT means dealing the vets for profit
Kreider gets a temporary at min pass b'c we have to wait and see what he is like once he is sufficiently healthy to remain so for the balance of the season, which is not gonna finalize this yr
Rest of most vets, buh-bye
and Zib, take a loss and force him out
HE IS THE WORST OF THE WORST
 
The Rangers are on a path for impending doom. All of the players are having horrible years. We can't trade this player or that player. Why not?

Did Panarin play yesterday? Was he scratched along with Kreider? I have had enough of Kreider's act. He complained about his back bothering him in November or December. OK. Use the 4 nations break for some rest. He played in the tournament. Other players like Pietrangelo dropped out to deal with whatever injury they are dealing with to be ready for Vegas's playoff run. I am sure Petro is a proud Canadian boy. Kreider barely played in the 2nd game VS Canada. He was probably injured during the tournament. The Rangers are your employer and they are paying you. No care about them.

All of the Rangers players besides Cuylle have taken a step back. Cuylle has 15 goals. He would have more than 15 with more responsibility.

Panarin
Zibanejad
Kreider
Lafreniere
Trocheck
Fox
Lindgren
Schneider
Miller
Igor



Bad.


Drury is not capable of these moves.
Which is my point. If the wrong guy is in, get the right guy in. I don’t understand how people think this team, with the same rotten core, same rotten infrastructure, and even less assets to improve the team internally is just going to magically wake up next season
 
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I wouldnt be so quick to trade Lafreniere and Schneider, who have regressed. They are young. The logical thing to do would be to trade the UFAs and guys over 30 (obviously JT and Troch are sticking around) and reform the team that way. We've already traded enough youth in Kakko and Chytil , for reasons I mostly agree with, but thats the reality.

Panarin, Mika and Kreider really need to go. Lindgren is in that group as well.
WTF would not regress with the current coaching staff we have ? It is poison ...just look at the overall defensive play and as far as offense it on most nights is every man for himself .
 
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The Rangers have advantages to keep them out of the suck indefinitely like a Buffalo. The ironic thing here is NOBODY was asking for them to end a rebuild early. They did that on their own

They have being retooling this season. You are seeing a retool in live action.
If the Sabres had Shesty and we had whoever they have ....we would be be the lesser team for a few years while we catch up . Goaltending makes such a difference . Sabres have some good pieces .....maybe a younger coach for Buffalo like Gardiner MacDougal from Moncton Wildcats would move them up a notch as well .
 
The Washington Capitals, last year, were thought to be on the cusp of aging out and falling to the bottom of the league. They barely made the playoffs and were swept. They are 1st in the East this year. They infused young players, Ovechkin had a resurgence and they completely revamped their blue line. The Rangers are in a better spot than the Caps were last year because they have pieces they can actually use to bring in futures. Kreider. Lindgren. Smith. Panarin. They have JT Miller and, for all his faults, Zibanejad in place. Shesterkin and Fox. They need serious changes, but lets not throw the bay out with the bath water.
 
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Honestly, my take away from last night is that the coaching staff needs to go as much as I hate to go down this path.

I mean, I watch other teams and the talent they have, watch the Rangers and the talent they have, and have to wonder about what the f*** is going on. Zone entrances, D coverage, outlet passes, and pretty much everything else is a dumpster fire. Is this because we have a bunch of talent-less hacks that can't play hockey? I'm watching a shitty Penguins team skate around like the 80's Oilers playing Scranton.

This is beyond will. This is catastrophic system failures and discipline. If these last two games are the best they can come up with for "must win" games then it's time to sell at the deadline and get a new voice in the room.
 
to me, it looks like the locker room has quit.... again.... on their coach. They don't believe in him or his gameplan. Just going through the motions, collection a check. No excitement. No urgency.. No effort...

At this point, I have no clue what to do with this squad....

I do know I do not want another retread HC playing 2000-2010 NHL hockey. Get me an 'in shape' millennial that understand the nuances of modern day NHL.
 
Many of you are tremendously short sighted and single minded. Thinking that having a .550 record and a bunch of fruitless playoff appearances is somehow better than being a non-playoff team who eventually drafts their own version of Jack Eichel and Quinn Hughes is unbelievably narrow minded. Going through 4-5 years of being a bottom feeder watching THIS team would be unbearable. 4-5 years of watching this team plus a rookie Stutzle and rookie Makar would be exciting and give you tons of hope for the future. Barkov and Morrisey. Matthews and Dahlin. Aho and Heiskanen. It doesn’t matter; every combination is better than what we have (of course we literally had a cursed 1/2 OA somehow).

Of course many rebuilds fail. You need a mixture of many things - one being a solid GM, but another which we will always have is the ability to attract talent despite not being competitive at that time. Buffalo would need a massive resurgence to attract UFAs. Even with McDavid, not many want to play in Canada and almost no one wants to play in Edmonton. Even Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin wasn’t exactly a destination. NYC always will be. Chicago had a rebuild and it resulted in 3 Cups. They’re very early in a rebuild right now and have good pieces in place. They’re an O6 team that doesn’t have trouble attracting players. Don’t compare our situation to teams like Buffalo. They’re a master class in mismanagement. They could have Eichel/Thompson/Reinhart/Dahlin/Power as their core. The Devils may not have had much success yet, but you’re nothing but a homer if you don’t see that they are positioned light years ahead of us right now. They did their rebuild well. The next 3-5 years is what’s important in judging them, not the recent past.

We could rebuild faster and more effectively than many teams, especially if we were willing to cash in our largest chips before their clauses kick in and render them valueless due to NMCs. You think we win the Cup next year, when a Fox is 28 and Shesty is 30? You think we just need 2 years? Fox is 29 and Shesty 31. 3 years? Fox is 30 now. He’s probably faster than ever. Personally? I wouldn’t put down $100 for a chance at $1,000,000 that we win within 2 years. So we’re at least looking at 30 year old Fox and 32 year old Shesterkin who are both worthless because they have NMCs that allow them to choose where they go, if anywhere. This team doesn’t have a bright future. You can call it gloom casting and whatever other cutesie name you want to give it, but most of you are simply living in denial. I would love one of you to outline a realistic path to success within 24 months instead of just claiming I’m being dramatic. We are 100% firmly entrenched in the worst place possible - no man’s land. Those of you who prefer narrowly missing the playoffs or getting 6 post season games a year over trying to correctly build a winner are exactly what keeps Dolan cashing in on the playoff revenue.
So we have had a few years in the not so distant past where we had 2 first round picks, the 2nd overall pick and the first overall pick and only one remains on the team. The year with the 2 picks netted us Lias and FC which in all honesty one was a bust and the other never lived up to the hype even before the injuries. KK for the 2nd overall pick was a huge disappointment and the one remaining Laff has had a really bad year. So the question is whether this management knows how to rebuild and draft. I am not overly confident.
 
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Do you think the Rangers are presently consisted to do that? Do you think Drury is the right GM to make that happen? Do you think Laviolette is the right coach to make the pieces work?

If there’s going to be a lot of work to do, are the right people in positions to do that work. If not there’s even more work to do.

I mean this is a novel concept but at some point you need evidence to show there is a realistic route to this being achievable
They were able to put together an ECF team 2 of the past 3 years so yes they can. You root for the wrong team if you think they're going to sell everything and become Buffalo.

There is a path to being a competitive team next season. This is just one of those years where everything goes to shit.
 
to me, it looks like the locker room has quit.... again.... on their coach. They don't believe in him or his gameplan. Just going through the motions, collection a check. No excitement. No urgency.. No effort...

At this point, I have no clue what to do with this squad....

I do know I do not want another retread HC playing 2000-2010 NHL hockey. Get me an 'in shape' millennial that understand the nuances of modern day NHL.
I’ll take one that practices accountability.
 
They were able to put together an ECF team 2 of the past 3 years so yes they can. You root for the wrong team if you think they're going to sell everything and become Buffalo.

There is a path to being a competitive team next season. This is just one of those years where everything goes to shit.
This is where you are way off. You talk about “2 of the past 3 years
They were able to put together an ECF team 2 of the past 3 years so yes they can. You root for the wrong team if you think they're going to sell everything and become Buffalo.

There is a path to being a competitive team next season. This is just one of those years where everything goes to shit.
This is where you are way off. You can’t say 2 of the last 3 years because that is no longer a relevant time period. This is very clearly not year 4. We are back at year 1 right now.

The can sell without becoming Buffalo. They aren’t going to, but they certainly can. And as I said I’d rather watch a team with a rebuilding plan (that sticks to that plan) than whatever this season is

Their path to becoming a competitive team is hoping Igor becomes a super hero with a worse roster in front of him. This is Dumb and Dumber (not you, the movie) “So you’re saying there’s a chance” Tier optimism.
 
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Trade Kreider as much as that sucks
Trade Lindgren
Ask Panarin if he’ll waive for Miami or another contender.
Trade Reilly Smith
Fire Lavi and Housley. Let Peca or Muse take it on.
Infuse some youth into the lineup. I have no clue why Berard is not here. He’s literally exactly what this team can use. Give Othmann a cup of coffee

I have zero confidence in any of that happening
 
The Rangers should be sellers at the deadline whether hovering around playoff position or not. It's been a train wreck of a season and I'm not sure how anyone could have faith that yesterday's team could get past the first round if somehow they blundered into the postseason.

There are the easy ones to move---Lindgren, Smith, Vesey and some not so hard to move---Kreider, Jones. I would like to move on from Zibanejad but that's going to be a hard one.

I think there's a small chance that Panarin moves. Likelier he stays and we go into training camp with these big ticket players---Panarin, JT Miller, Trocheck, Zibanejad, Lafreniere, Fox, Shesterkin and K'Andre probably in the $5 mil range......maybe even Kreider if Drury won't pull the plug. The Rangers do have younger ELC and second contract NHL players and a number of younger players who can realistically push for jobs. I don't think we have a shortage of young NHL or NHL capable players....it's a question of how many can be high end. We also should have something around $20 mil to work with which I would earmark for defense.

For me building a team is just an ongoing project---and part of it is to always have younger players coming into the mix but another part is to try to use the cap to your advantage. The thing with veteran players is the front end on longer term deals tends to be much better than the back end. If you're not getting top end players out of your youth you need the vets to provide the talent. It's a constant balancing act but no team is going to win with just kids and you're not going to inject proven top end players into your lineup if you're not ready to make a commitment to them.....not even if you're NYC.
 
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