Player Discussion All Purpose Goaltending Thread

[Chainshot]

How two inches of ice helped an average NHL goalie become elite

Ullmark is posting historic numbers thanks in part to "backflow," a maneuver he was resistant to upon arriving in Boston.

theathletic.com

Goes into what Ullmark changed and why it is working. I don’t think he get this from Bales if he had stayed.

 

[Jim Bob]

How two inches of ice helped an average NHL goalie become elite

Ullmark is posting historic numbers thanks in part to "backflow," a maneuver he was resistant to upon arriving in Boston.

theathletic.com

Goes into what Ullmark changed and why it is working. I don’t think he get this from Bales if he had stayed.

There are two basic schools of thought on this.

One school is start from the goal line and play out to the depth you want to have for the play. The other is what is talked about in this story where you take more ice than needed initially and then backflow to where you need to be to save the shot.

I am not sure which way Bales likes his guys to play. Or, if he tends to use both and it is about what works for each goalie.

 

[oldgoalie]

How two inches of ice helped an average NHL goalie become elite

Ullmark is posting historic numbers thanks in part to "backflow," a maneuver he was resistant to upon arriving in Boston.

theathletic.com

Goes into what Ullmark changed and why it is working. I don’t think he get this from Bales if he had stayed.

sigh. paywall.

 

[TehDoak]

Next year, we had BETTER bring in a legit NHL goalie. Give Levi a chance to earn the net in camp of course. Maybe we have a split net or something. I Levi does not earn it, then off to the AHL next year.

We absolutely do NOT have to give Levi a chance to be the starter next year.

In fact, we shouldn't set the expectation that should be possible.

The NCAA has a 35 game season.

Levi is a great prospect.

Rushing him to the NHL straight of out college would be setting him up for failure.

The last 11 Vezina winners:

Igor Shesterkin -> 5 years in the KHL, 1/2 in the AHL
MAF -> First overall pick, played 22 NHL games out of Junior, then a full season in the AHL, and started in the AHL after the 05 lockout
Connor Hellebuyck -> 1 year NCAA, 1.5 years in the AHL
Andrei Vasilevskiy -> 2 years KHL, 2 years split between NHL/AHL
Pekka Rinne -> 1 year in Europe, 3 years in the AHL
Sergei Bobrovsky -> Undrafted, 4 years in the KHL/Russian leagues
Braden Holtby -> 1 year in WHL, a 1 between ECHL/AHL, 3 years in the AHL with a few runs with the Capitals
Carey Price-> 2 years in Junior post draft, split time in. the NHL/AHL for 2 seasons
Lundqvist-> 5 years in the SEL before signing with the Rangers
Tim Thomas -> Pretty much every developmental league you can find for a long time
Ryan Miller-> 3 years of college, 3 full seasons in the AHL with some NHL time in there

The only goalie without a significant professional experience before being a NHL starter was Carey Price.

Levi should be in the AHL next year. Even if he's the best goalie at camp by a wide margin.

The sole exception, of course, is if Levi goes full Dryden and wins the Conn Smythe this year. Then of course, he earned the net for next year

Ok, if that happens, I'll agree with you. It's not, but if it does, he can start next year.

 

[dortt]

We absolutely do NOT have to give Levi a chance to be the starter next year.

In fact, we shouldn't set the expectation that should be possible.

The NCAA has a 35 game season.

Levi is a great prospect.

Rushing him to the NHL straight of out college would be setting him up for failure.

The last 11 Vezina winners:

Igor Shesterkin -> 5 years in the KHL, 1/2 in the AHL
MAF -> First overall pick, played 22 NHL games out of Junior, then a full season in the AHL, and started in the AHL after the 05 lockout
Connor Hellebuyck -> 1 year NCAA, 1.5 years in the AHL
Andrei Vasilevskiy -> 2 years KHL, 2 years split between NHL/AHL
Pekka Rinne -> 1 year in Europe, 3 years in the AHL
Sergei Bobrovsky -> Undrafted, 4 years in the KHL/Russian leagues
Braden Holtby -> 1 year in WHL, a 1 between ECHL/AHL, 3 years in the AHL with a few runs with the Capitals
Carey Price-> 2 years in Junior post draft, split time in. the NHL/AHL for 2 seasons
Lundqvist-> 5 years in the SEL before signing with the Rangers
Tim Thomas -> Pretty much every developmental league you can find for a long time
Ryan Miller-> 3 years of college, 3 full seasons in the AHL with some NHL time in there

The only goalie without a significant professional experience before being a NHL starter was Carey Price.

Levi should be in the AHL next year. Even if he's the best goalie at camp by a wide margin.





Ok, if that happens, I'll agree with you. It's not, but if it does, he can start next year.

Absolutely incorrect, IMO, is the bolded. That sends a message to the team that next year is ANOTHER developmental year.

That would have ramifications, such as possibly not being able to sign Dahlin, as he may want to go to a team that actually cares about winning

 

[TehDoak]

Absolutely incorrect, IMO, is the bolded. That sends a message to the team that next year is ANOTHER developmental year.

That would have ramifications, such as possibly not being able to sign Dahlin, as he may want to go to a team that actually cares about winning

No, they need to bring in a veteran starter this year. Handing the starters reigns to a 21 year old with no professional experience would signal another development year. If the options at camp next fall are UPL, Comrie, and Levi, Adams needs to be fired. Levi will get plenty of NHL games next year when injuries inevitably happen. You can't go into camp with the group of goalies we have now.

 

[Bendium]

Absolutely incorrect, IMO, is the bolded. That sends a message to the team that next year is ANOTHER developmental year.

That would have ramifications, such as possibly not being able to sign Dahlin, as he may want to go to a team that actually cares about winning

Levi shouldn't be the best goalie in camp next year, because we should be getting a true experienced NHL Starter this ofseason. Someone with 2-3 years left on contract or signed to that in UFA.

Levi should be the starter for the majority of games for the Amerks next year. He has a starter/leader mentality, so it needs to be HIS team. Load that team up and go for a Calder.

UPL needs alot of work. His technique is not great and his mental speed in not NHL level yet. All that could come with hard work in the offseason, and 30 games as the backup next year. I don't know. I have never seen what I am looking for in him. I am open to a trade.

Comrie has better technique and is likely to become a NHL backup, but so far lacks that athleticism that produces the occasional save that shouldn't have been. So either him or UPL could be backup to a true starter next year, but one has to go.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

KA made his move with Comrie. He's not going to trade one of the very few FA signings that come to Buffalo (right or wrong). Trading UPL goes entirely against the "patience, trust the process" mantra. That's the goalie position for next season - Comrie and UPL. We should come to terms with that now, and sooth our fears with hopes of Levi crushing the AHL and being ready for 2024-25. I can forward my therapist's number if anyone needs it.

 

[Chainshot]

sigh. paywall.

Basically that Essensa who is the goalie coach for the Bruins wanted Ullmark to shift to this backflow idea where the goalie gives a couple of inches on impact/stop. I don't think that's what Bales teaches since two of the three tenders are usually FAR out to cut angles and don't necessarily recover as well as I would like in UPL and Comrie. Anderson has his own set of issues and we don't have much of a body of work for Levi to know what's going on.

 

[Jim Bob]

Basically that Essensa who is the goalie coach for the Bruins wanted Ullmark to shift to this backflow idea where the goalie gives a couple of inches on impact/stop. I don't think that's what Bales teaches since two of the three tenders are usually FAR out to cut angles and don't necessarily recover as well as I would like in UPL and Comrie. Anderson has his own set of issues and we don't have much of a body of work for Levi to know what's going on.

Bruins Ullmark Adds ‘Recoil’ in Breakout Season - InGoal Magazine

Bruins Ullmark Adds ‘Recoil’ in Breakout Season

ingoalmag.com

Linus Ullmark credits a big part of his incredible season to “recoil,” a philosophy that Boston Bruins goaltending coach Bob Essensa has used successfully with Tuukka Rask, Tim Thomas and current backup Jeremy Swayman.

Ullmark wasn’t always a fan of the concept, however. The 29-year-old Swedish stopper admits he didn’t completely buy in last season, his first in Boston, because “recoil” went against his long-held belief that “set and square” were keys to his success.

Like so many others in the goaltending world, Ullmark viewed being set and square before a shot is taken as a foundational part of the position and how best to play it. So, when Essensa asked him to purposely drift backwards as a shot was being taken, Ullmark admittedly bristled at the idea initially.

“I was frustrated because he wanted me to move and I wanted to be stopped and set because I felt that’s where I make my reaction saves and now it feels like I’m letting in bad goals because I’m moving,” Ullmark said of last season. “And then I had one game, just one game, when everything clicked last season, where I got a little taste of it, and I told him ‘This is nice’ and then I started easing up a little bit on it. I was stubborn, like ‘my way works, my way got me to this point, so why would I start changing these things in my game.’”

Ullmark still strives to get square to shooters, but now, instead of being set and still as they load up a shot, he often has a little backwards flow to his game. But not all the time, of course.

“It’s about finding the right mix of when to do it because there’s still opportunities where you have to stand still and you just have to wait because it’s easier to make saves standing still,” Ullmark added.

 

[Jim Bob]

Absolutely incorrect, IMO, is the bolded. That sends a message to the team that next year is ANOTHER developmental year.

That would have ramifications, such as possibly not being able to sign Dahlin, as he may want to go to a team that actually cares about winning

This off season has two huge To Dos for Adams:

- Add a legit top 4 D
- Add a legit #1 G

I believe it would be a huge mistake to start Levi in Buffalo next season. He needs more games.

I hope they go the Jake Oettinger development route and not the Spencer Knight one.

Send him to Rochester and let him force your hand by proving he is too good for the AHL.

 

[Chainshot]

This off season has two huge To Dos for Adams:

- Add a legit top 4 D
- Add a legit #1 G

I believe it would be a huge mistake to start Levi in Buffalo next season. He needs more games.

I hope they go the Jake Oettinger development route and not the Spencer Knight one.

Send him to Rochester and let him force your hand by proving he is too good for the AHL.

I would add one more top 9 forward who isn't lost in his own zone/PKing to the list as a way to bridge to the next wave of prospects while someone like Okposo is sundowned.

It seems the proverbial ball is in Levi's court. Him winning again tonight and perhaps a few more down the stretch I'm sure is going to make the summer an even more unsettled situation in the Sabres net looking at next year.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I would add one more top 9 forward who isn't lost in his own zone/PKing to the list as a way to bridge to the next wave of prospects while someone like Okposo is sundowned.

It seems the proverbial ball is in Levi's court. Him winning again tonight and perhaps a few more down the stretch I'm sure is going to make the summer an even more unsettled situation in the Sabres net looking at next year.

If Levi wins tonight and a few more then he might be starting in the playoffs…which completely muddies the situation as you said.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

sigh. paywall.

Pro tip: if you are on an iPhone, click the article and when it loads, go in to reader mode. Paywall gone.

 

[Jim Bob]

The second half of this goalie episode with Kevin Woodley starts out with Levi and then moves onto general Sabres goalie talk.

A few notes:

- Woody wants Levi to get starts in the AHL to not just throw him to the wolves.
- But, if one young goalie has the mindset to allow him to survive being rushed, it's Levi.
- The Sabres environment for goalies is far and away the worst in the NHL.
- If the Sabres trade for a big time #1, Saros is a fit and Hellebuyck isn't because of all the cross-ice chances that the Sabres give up. Saros is good against those types of chances and Hellebuyck is not. Hellebuyck needs a much more structured environment in from of him.

Non-Sabres note:

- Korpisalo is looking really good in LA because they are so good in front of him and he needs that structure to play well.

 

[Jim Bob]

I am listening to this one despite not expecting it to be anywhere near as good as the PDOcast.

 

[Ace]

Offseason plan

1. Give Anderson his gold watch and send him on his way to retirement.

2. Trade UPL away. For whatever. Part of a package for something. A pick. I don’t care.

3. Acquire a better goalie than Comrie. Like they should have done last year…and the year before.

4. Levi can compete with Comrie for an NHL a job. if he wins…fine. He can do a 1A/1B thing. Waive Comrie. If he clears…great. If he doesn’t…who gives a shit...you can acquire a thousand Comries. Their cheap for a reason. Whoever is waived by another team to make room for Comrie is just a Comrie with A different name. if Levi loses out to Comrie...fine. Go start every game in Roch where you probably should be next year anyway.

They need a better goalie option than is currently in their system no matter where Levi plays next year. It’s years past when that should have been addressed.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

I am listening to this one despite not expecting it to be anywhere near as good as the PDOcast.

How was this one? Love the PDOcast and Woodley but I’m intrigued what other outlets have to say about the Sabres.

 

[Jim Bob]

How was this one? Love the PDOcast and Woodley but I’m intrigued what other outlets have to say about the Sabres.

A lot less about the Sabres specifically, although they start with the Sabres talk. So, if you want to bail when they move on, you can save some time.



Honestly, there is better Sabres goalie talk in this thread than in that podcast. But, given the Sabres focus on this board vs the wide ranging nature of that pod, I am not surprised.

If you are going to listen to one, I would say listen to Kevin on the PDOCast.

 

[Jim Bob]

How is ski boot technology making life easier for many NHL goalies?

Over the past two seasons, many goalies have switched to a laceless style that one calls "the future of goaltending skates."

theathletic.com

If there weren't issues with buckle durability, I would so want a pair if I were able to find a team to play goalie on.

 

[Jim Bob]

The Instigator Podcast 11.29 – Levi Time?

Devon Levi has hit the ground running for the Sabres with a pair of impressive starts over the last week. We talk about how impressive his play has been and try to determine how many more games he …

twointhebox.com

 

[toomuchsauce]

Bruins Ullmark Adds ‘Recoil’ in Breakout Season - InGoal Magazine

Bruins Ullmark Adds ‘Recoil’ in Breakout Season

ingoalmag.com

lmao at this ridiculous jargon. And there's nothing wrong with it per se - any pro goalie coach can call it whatever s/he wants when talking to NHL goalies - or, any adult goalies, in general. But, in large part, this stuff becomes little more than marketing for coaches to sell their camps to parents/kids who don't know any better. So, you end up with high priced camps with untrained coaches yelling at kids to "do more backflow! No, do it better next time! Recoil. RECOIL! And stop doing that Vertical Horizontal - those are bad now, you can't do those anymore. Go practice your reverse VHs and then go to the head trajectory station." No one has any f***ing idea why they're doing any of this.

 

[Jim Bob]

lmao at this ridiculous jargon. And there's nothing wrong with it per se - any pro goalie coach can call it whatever s/he wants when talking to NHL goalies - or, any adult goalies, in general. But, in large part, this stuff becomes little more than marketing for coaches to sell their camps to parents/kids who don't know any better. So, you end up with high priced camps with untrained coaches yelling at kids to "do more backflow! No, do it better next time! Recoil. RECOIL! And stop doing that Vertical Horizontal - those are bad now, you can't do those anymore. Go practice your reverse VHs and then go to the head trajectory station." No one has any f***ing idea why they're doing any of this.

Plenty of people know why various techniques are used.

Reverse VH + RVH Guide for Goalies | How And When To Use RVH

The RVH (Reverse Vertical Horizontal) Style of post play and integration is an excellent technique when used correctly. This guide explains the RVH.

goaliecoaches.com

 

[TehDoak]

The Instigator Podcast 11.29 – Levi Time?

Devon Levi has hit the ground running for the Sabres with a pair of impressive starts over the last week. We talk about how impressive his play has been and try to determine how many more games he …

twointhebox.com

When he (Levi) was deciding whether or not to come out, he was interviewing them as much as much as they were interviewing him. And I think there was a zoom call where basically the entire Sabres organization was on it answering any question about he might have about the opportunity he was going to get and the place he stepped into.

Really is starting to feel like some promises were made to get him to sign.

 

[dortt]

Really is starting to feel like some promises were made to get him to sign.

I hope they are.

Not just sports teams, but any business should know that when you are dealing with high performers and elite talent, the normal rules do not apply. If you insist upon a one size fits all, you will lose your elite performers