Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part VI

[KPower]

Eklund said that Chicago's the frontrunner.

That means you can count us out.

It sure looks like Chicago at this point though.

 

[Profet]

I mean all the details would have to be worked out by lawyers but I'm guessing only players that sign contracts would need compensation.

I don't understand what so difficult to understand. There is an agreement in place between the players and the owners.

ALL parties agreed to it. ALL parties must abide by it.

Why are people up in arms about people following the rules?

If the owners deem this to be a problem, then next CBA they'll state that they want the rule changed. The players will listen and ask the owners for something in return.

If neither side budges, there will be a lock out or a walk out.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought an NCAA player only becomes a UFA if he plays out his senior year?

They don't necessarily have to be a senior, it's just 4 years after being drafted.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

The player is not protected.

Go ask those players that never receive a contract offer.

Players come up dry all the time.

It's pretty rare that a franchise is not able to sign a player it wants to sign.

If you're thinking Vesey's rights are protected, ask yourself this: what if he had a career-ending injury? What would Nashville (or Buffalo) have owed him then?

Why would they have to pay him if he's never played a professional game in his life? Especially if he didn't even sign an ELC.

 

[JT Kreider]

Teams know the benefits and disadvantages to drafting a kid who is going the college route.

JT Miller was set to go to NoDak but the Rangers convinced him to go to the OHL instead.

 

[Paranoid Android]

I don't understand what so difficult to understand. There is an agreement in place between the players and the owners.

ALL parties agreed to it. ALL parties must abide by it.

Why are people up in arms about people following the rules?

If the owners deem this to be a problem, then next CBA they'll state that they want the rule changed. The players will listen and ask the owners for something in return.

If neither side budges, there will be a lock out or a walk out.

What's wrong with discussing potential rule changes for next CBA?

 

[Profet]

What's wrong with discussing potential rule changes for next CBA?

Nothing... but there is a National Hockey League Talk forum specifically for that.

Probably shouldn't be in the Vesey Rumor thread.

 

[Nemec]

I am going to re-read all of the Vesey posts from beginning to end to make sure I didn't miss anything in this dramatic story.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I don't understand what so difficult to understand. There is an agreement in place between the players and the owners.

ALL parties agreed to it. ALL parties must abide by it.

Why are people up in arms about people following the rules?

If the owners deem this to be a problem, then next CBA they'll state that they want the rule changed. The players will listen and ask the owners for something in return.

If neither side budges, there will be a lock out or a walk out.

You seem like you're more up in arms than anyone else. I understand exactly what's going on if you read along. All I said was I don't think it's fair and that they should bring it up during the next cba.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It isn't just that it is part of the CBA. It isn't just that the logic falls apart when you consider the opposite that teams would have to offer every draft pick a contract if you are going to be consistent, and keep them on the roster forever.

You only see a handful of these every year for a reason.

The Toews example. He would not have been able to play for four years. So instead of entering the league at age 19 he would have delayed his debut until age 22. Then signed an ELC so instead of the $6.5million deal he signed at age 22 he would have an ELC instead, forever losing that money he would have earned on that bridge contract.

Lesser players who decline a contract to play this out in this way could get injured, regress, a million things and never see a dime in hockey.

The player takes a risk doing this, and could lose a lot.

So it is not like this is some huge loophole that is something to be concerned about.

 

[Gee Wally]

I guess that is the reality of bargaining at these levels. I just with one thing would have to do with the other but it's really whatever works.

Exactly. Its the whole entire package.
That's why sometimes it takes so long.

I've actually done this with unions in real life. I was management. But it can be fascinating to be part of. As well as frustrating.

Good discussion.

 

[JT Kreider]

If he signs with a team other than the Rangers (or Devils and Isles) I can't tell if I'll be more upset that we missed out on him or if I'll be happy this thing is finally over.

 

[Curufinwe]

It isn't just that it is part of the CBA. It isn't just that the logic falls apart when you consider the opposite that teams would have to offer every draft pick a contract if you are going to be consistent, and keep them on the roster forever.

You only see a handful of these every year for a reason.

The Toews example. He would not have been able to play for four years. So instead of entering the league at age 19 he would have delayed his debut until age 22. Then signed an ELC so instead of the $6.5million deal he signed at age 22 he would have an ELC instead, forever losing that money he would have earned on that bridge contract.

Lesser players who decline a contract to play this out in this way could get injured, regress, a million things and never see a dime in hockey.

The player takes a risk doing this, and could lose a lot.

So it is not like this is some huge loophole that is something to be concerned about.

Exactly. This rarely happens because there are big incentives for NCAA prospects to sign with the team that drafted them before they graduate.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

Nothing... but there is a National Hockey League Talk forum specifically for that.

Probably shouldn't be in the Vesey Rumor thread.

Even though Vesey's situation is directly related to what I'm talking about? Don't be one of those people who try to censor other people when they're talking about something you don't like. The 2 Live Crew and Body Count suffered too much for your freedom of speech for you to be censoring other people.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's not gonna sign today, is he?

 

[BruinLVGA]

1. It's to keep the richest teams in the biggest, most attractive cities from monopolizing all the best players.

2. You know, the way it happens in all the big European soccer leagues.

3. It's good for league-wide competitiveness and parity.

1. Obviously.

2. You are not seriously trying to tell a European how soccer works around here, are you?
Well, it doesn't work like in North America...

There is no draft system in Europe. There are no junior teams/leagues who independently develop players and then pro teams pick them for free.

Here professional teams in soccer - and hockey too, by the way - develop kids from a tender age (say around 6 or 7?) in their own teams that bear the same name as the professional team.
In order to do that, they have substantial expenses like personnel (coaching, equipment, managerial, medical, legal, etc etc), providing equipment + transportation + in some cases (for example like AC Milan with their sport academy, Milanello) housing & schooling too.
It's not like in the USA where all a team does is send a bunch of scouts to take a look at young players and then they simply pick the ones they prefer. Nashville, in regards to helping Vesey's development for example, has done nothing. Juventus or Bayern Munich or Barcelona or Manchester United invest a ton of money & time & effort into developing young players. So if they get to have rights for a player they developed, it's absolutely normal with all it cost them. And they don't get any right towards players they didn't develop.
On the other hand, North American teams get free rights for doing nothing. Not the same thing at all.

3. Sure is. But it's not good for the players who get their choice erased.

 

[eoin92]

It isn't just that it is part of the CBA. It isn't just that the logic falls apart when you consider the opposite that teams would have to offer every draft pick a contract if you are going to be consistent, and keep them on the roster forever.

You only see a handful of these every year for a reason.

The Toews example. He would not have been able to play for four years. So instead of entering the league at age 19 he would have delayed his debut until age 22. Then signed an ELC so instead of the $6.5million deal he signed at age 22 he would have an ELC instead, forever losing that money he would have earned on that bridge contract.

Lesser players who decline a contract to play this out in this way could get injured, regress, a million things and never see a dime in hockey.

The player takes a risk doing this, and could lose a lot.

So it is not like this is some huge loophole that is something to be concerned about.

I agree with this. The risk of a player getting injured or decling is far greater. They could end up with $0 in the end. It's a huge risk turning down guaranteed money.

 

[Paranoid Android]

It isn't just that it is part of the CBA. It isn't just that the logic falls apart when you consider the opposite that teams would have to offer every draft pick a contract if you are going to be consistent, and keep them on the roster forever.

You only see a handful of these every year for a reason.

The Toews example. He would not have been able to play for four years. So instead of entering the league at age 19 he would have delayed his debut until age 22. Then signed an ELC so instead of the $6.5million deal he signed at age 22 he would have an ELC instead, forever losing that money he would have earned on that bridge contract.

Lesser players who decline a contract to play this out in this way could get injured, regress, a million things and never see a dime in hockey.

The player takes a risk doing this, and could lose a lot.

So it is not like this is some huge loophole that is something to be concerned about.

They were concerned enough during last CBA negotiations to tweak the rule by giving teams a longer signing window. But you're right, it effects very few players so it's pretty far down on the priority list.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Veni Vidi Vesey

*poof*

 

[Riptide]

You dont need top end talent to always come from the top 10 of a draft. Does it help to find it there? Sure, but tons of teams in the last 10 years have whiffed on their top 10 picks or had them work out to be marginal role players at best

Maybe because NY have traded 6 1st and 2nd round picks in the last 4 years?

Here are the top 15 scorers last year and where they were drafted overall:

Kane - 1st
Benn - 129th
Crosby - 1st
Thornton -1st
Karlsson - 15th
Gaudreau - 104th
Wheeler - 5th
Pavelski - 205th
Kuznetsov - 26th
Panarin - Undrafted
Burns - 20th
Kopitar -11th
Tarasenko -16th
Seguin - 2nd
Ovechkin - 1st

6 in the top 10 overall, 9 outside

its not really a viable excuse. Always going for it and unloading pick after pick the last 7-8 odd years and replenishing them with much lower picks (if they can) isnt helping NYRs cause

Yeah debunked that a couple threads ago. Doesn't seem to stop him from crying about it though.

 

[Dijock94]

If it's Chicago that pretty much means his whole "close to home" demand was total **** [mod]

 

[HarrisonFord]

He's not gonna sign today, is he?

I bet we're waiting until Sunday

 

[BruinLVGA]

Comparing playing hockey in the NHL to slavery - classy.

Look at post 796, just 4 spots below yours. From a very well respected, long time serving moderator.

 

[JT Kreider]

Yeah debunked that a couple threads ago. Doesn't seem to stop him from crying about it though.

My point wasn't about top scorers. Jonathan Cheechoo once dropped 56 goals and nobody would hardly call him an elite player. Or anything close to it.

It's about the franchise changing talent that is only available at the top of the draft that is required to have in order to win a Stanley Cup.

As evidenced by 7 of our 8 past Cup champions.

3 of the top 7 scorers this past season didn't even end up making the playoffs. 2 of them were on teams that ended up drafting in the top 6. A whole lot of good all those points did.

And I'm not crying about it at all. I'm happy with what my team has accomplished the past 5 seasons. It's better than what 26 other teams have to show for themselves.

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

I am going to re-read all of the Vesey posts from beginning to end to make sure I didn't miss anything in this dramatic story.

He signed with the Avs 10 pages back