Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part VI

[Roomtemperature]

My point wasn't about top scorers. Jonathan Cheechoo once dropped 56 goals and nobody would hardly call him an elite player. Or anything close to it.

It's about the franchise changing talent that is only available at the top of the draft that is required to have in order to win a Stanley Cup.

As evidenced by 7 of our 8 past Cup champions.

3 of the top 7 scorers this past season didn't even end up making the playoffs. 2 of them were on teams that ended up drafting in the top 6. A whole lot of good all those points did.

But this is a team game. Why are you penalizing those players for being on a team that wasn't good enough to make the playoffs?

 

[JT Kreider]

But this is a team game. Why are you penalizing those players for being on a team that wasn't good enough to make the playoffs?

Is not calling Blake Wheeler a franchise changing talent exactly penalizing him?

I don't know I look around the league and every legit contenders best players are top draft picks. And legit of the legit contenders have multiple of them.

 

[Blackhawks]

If it's Chicago that pretty much means his whole "close to home" demand was total **** [mod]

It was already proven to be bs, read a couple pages back...

 

[Dijock94]

It was already proven to be bs, read a couple pages back...

No I believe it's somewhere back there

 

[TLEH]

Ok Mr Toews fan, out of the University of Nodak

Don't be so silly. In Major League Baseball, when a player makes it known pre draft that he is going to college, teams will not spend a pick on that player because if he goes to college his rights are not kept by the drafting team. He then, is either able to enter the draft after his junior season at a 4 year university. Juco players are eligible to be drafted during any year of college. It's why Bryce Harper dropped out of high school to go to JUCO, to actually get drafted a year earlier. You think I do not know that toews went to UND lol cmon man.

 

[BruinDust]

My point wasn't about top scorers. Jonathan Cheechoo once dropped 56 goals and nobody would hardly call him an elite player. Or anything close to it.

It's about the franchise changing talent that is only available at the top of the draft that is required to have in order to win a Stanley Cup.

As evidenced by 7 of our 8 past Cup champions.

3 of the top 7 scorers this past season didn't even end up making the playoffs. 2 of them were on teams that ended up drafting in the top 6. A whole lot of good all those points did.

And I'm not crying about it at all. I'm happy with what my team has accomplished the past 5 seasons. It's better than what 26 other teams have to show for themselves.

I find this funny coming from a Chicago fan, considering you have a 2x Norris winner, 1x Conn Smythe winner on your blueline that was drafted in the 2nd round.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your ignorant narrative.

 

[halcyon]

Hopefully this kid makes faster decisions with the puck on his stick.

 

[yahhockey]

If the Chi/NYR report is accurate then I'm just glad it's not Boston or Toronto. Probably more so Boston than Toronto since there seemed to be more forceful/aggressive/offputting posts about Vesey signing there but if they're out of the running it's all good.

Between those teams Chicago would be the better fit if he wants to win in his next two seasons but the Rangers may offer more financial incentives being in the NYC area.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Don't be so silly. In Major League Baseball, when a player makes it known pre draft that he is going to college, teams will not spend a pick on that player because if he goes to college his rights are not kept by the drafting team.

Ummm... Pirates drafted Josh Bell after he told every team he planned on going to college..... He's now a Pirate.

 

[Riptide]

Not sure if serious...as a fan of none of the teams mentioned, I can say that I do not consider Bergeron/Krejci to be on the level of the other duos mentioned. Good players, no doubt, but I wouldn't consider either to be elite

The point was they don't need to be. Depth wins championships, not star players - otherwise Pittsburgh and Washington would have a lot more cups then they do. Boston won a cup and made another trip to the finals with Bergeron and Krejci doing the heavy lifting - but they also had very good depth surrounding them.

What's even funnier is that the poster who's complaining about this is a NYR fan - and should know better. New York Rangers over a 4 year span went to 2 ECF and a cup finals. Their core over that time frame? Lundqvist, M.Staal, Stepan, Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Brassard and McDonagh. NYR didn't draft one of those guys in the top 10. The funny thing? Only Stepan, Lundqvist and Staal were drafted by them.

This is one of the reasons everyone wants Vesey. Even if all he pans out to be is a decent middle 6 player. Those guys - especially ones on cheap contracts (which likely describes Vesey over the next 3-4 years) who can be productive are what really allows a team to shine.

 

[JT Kreider]

I find this funny coming from a Chicago fan, considering you have a 2x Norris winner, 1x Conn Smythe winner on your blueline that was drafted in the 2nd round.

But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your ignorant narrative.

I'm a Ranger fan. For one and Keith was on Chicago for 2 years before Kane and Toews and didn't have as much of an impact right out of the gate. Like a true franchise changing talent does.

Not sure how my narrative is ignorant considering 7 of the past 8 Cup winners best players are top drafted talent.

 

[Tawnos]

Exactly. This rarely happens because there are big incentives for NCAA prospects to sign with the team that drafted them before they graduate.

Also, this isn't an NCAA thing. Every single drafted player is a UFA if they don't sign after 4 years.

 

[JT Kreider]

The point was they don't need to be. Depth wins championships, not star players - otherwise Pittsburgh and Washington would have a lot more cups then they do. Boston won a cup and made another trip to the finals with Bergeron and Krejci doing the heavy lifting - but they also had very good depth surrounding them.

What's even funnier is that the poster who's complaining about this is a NYR fan - and should know better. New York Rangers over a 4 year span went to 2 ECF and a cup finals. Their core over that time frame? Lundqvist, M.Staal, Stepan, Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Brassard and McDonagh. NYR didn't draft one of those guys in the top 10. The funny thing? Only Stepan, Lundqvist and Staal were drafted by them.

This is one of the reasons everyone wants Vesey. Even if all he pans out to be is a decent middle 6 player. Those guys - especially ones on cheap contracts (which likely describes Vesey over the next 3-4 years) who can be productive are what really allows a team to shine.

But it's Cup or bust. As the Ranger fan who got destroyed for calling the Rangers a perennial winner since 2012 in the previous thread quickly learned.

If anything that shows how impressive this run has been for the Rangers considering their lack of top drafted talent.

And again you're ignoring my statement that top drafted talent is required to win the Stanley Cup. The Rangers did not.

 

[TLEH]

Ummm... Pirates drafted Josh Bell after he told every team he planned on going to college..... He's now a Pirate.

Josh Bell also received a 5 million dollar signing bonus in the 2nd round, way over slot value, to persuade him not to attend college. Why do you think they were able to snag a player of josh bells talent in the 2nd round, because he slid due to telling other teams he was planning on college and other teams not paying him that kind of money. For an example, the number 3 overall pick signed for 6.3 million last year, and some guys in the 15-20 overall range only get 2 million.

 

[somethingbruin]

I think the longer it goes benefits the Bruins tough decision to leave home

 

[DontToewzMeBro]

I heard Vesey is signing with Chicago, purple monkey dishwasher.

 

[Sabreality]

I think the longer it goes benefits the Bruins tough decision to leave home

I think it's the opposite. Why take so long if it's always been his dream to be a Bruin.

 

[tfriede2]

Look at post 796, just 4 spots below yours. From a very well respected, long time serving moderator.

A moderator making the same comparison doesn't influence my opinion one iota. It's a bad comparison.

 

[Riptide]

To be Devil's Advocate, why would Vesey's agent tell teams that they were out? More competition is likely to yield better offers.

Also being Devil's Advocate it's not Chicago or New York area reporters reporting that no one has been eliminated. It's people from Boston and Pittsburgh. Again - why would they want to admit defeat?

No one can give him "better" offers. Everyone is going to offer him 925k, with the max signing bonus and the max bonuses allowed. All of these things are regulated by the CBA. The only thing they can do is make promises about icetime, line combo's etc... and there's no way that Vesey can hold them to those promises once he signs. Not to mention that if someone is lying about these things to try and convince him, him and his team can just as easily look at how players were used last year and how likely the coach is going to bump one of those guys for him.

AKA in PIT, there's zero chance this year that Vesey plays on the #1PP. He's not bumping Crosby, Malkin, Kessel or Hornqvist/Kunitz. It's just not going to happen.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I'm a Ranger fan. For one and Keith was on Chicago for 2 years before Kane and Toews and didn't have as much of an impact right out of the gate. Like a true franchise changing talent does.

Defensemen are extremely, extremely rare cases where they have as much of an impact like that out of the gate.

Almost rarely ever happens, even for franchise dmen

Even Erik Karlsson wasnt a true offensive force until year 3

Doughty really the only dman in recent memory I can think of that was a high impact player by year 2

 

[Shmuffalo]

It's all over folks

 

[Riptide]

Having multiple consecutive Top 3 picks is pretty nice.

It's sure worked out well for Edmonton over the last 6 years since they drafted Hall in 2010.

 

[FLYLine27*]

It's sure worked out well for Edmonton over the last 6 years since they drafted Hall in 2010.

Worked pretty well for the Pens.

 

[PIMsCup]

Also, this isn't an NCAA thing. Every single drafted player is a UFA if they don't sign after 4 years.

Thank you.

Everyone seems to ignore this fact.
The NCAA merely offers a degree as incentive.

 

[Moose Head]

I think the longer it goes benefits the Bruins tough decision to leave home

Maybe a team should offer him baby bottles under the table.