SoupNazi
Gee Wally/SoupNazi 2024
- Feb 6, 2010
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Another Strickland tweet
I'd just like to see this saga end, one way or another.
Another Strickland tweet
You mean like pairing Debrincat with Larkin?Get skilled forwards on to a scoring line with scoring line ice time and you'd be surprised.
I was thinking a 90% cheaper option.You mean like pairing Debrincat with Larkin?
Just more clickbait bs. Someone else is reporting that Taresenko rejected all of the offers he had and fired his agent and hired a new agent.Probably based on the Strickland tweet.
I know. But sometimes one ribeye provides a better meal than a dozen sliders. It's fine if you don't think Debrincat specifically fits that saying, but sooner rather than later Detroit needs a first line caliber player to go with all the KMart blue light specials.I was thinking a 90% cheaper option.
I was thinking a 90% cheaper option.
I get that. However, the Hudler example still holds true. He wasn't ever "good enough" for our top line, but then he finished top 10 in league scoring with a pair of rookie linemates in Calgary. Berggren is just as good, IMO. Give him proper linemates and ice time.I know. But sometimes one ribeye provides a better meal than a dozen sliders. It's fine if you don't think Debrincat specifically fits that saying, but sooner rather than later Detroit needs a first line caliber player to go with all the KMart blue light specials.
I think Berggren is more of a 20-40-60 guy at his peak and Debrincat is closer to 80 points with nearly half coming from goals. But at this point we can agree to disagree.I get that. However, the Hudler example still holds true. He wasn't ever "good enough" for our top line, but then he finished top 10 in league scoring with a pair of rookie linemates in Calgary. Berggren is just as good, IMO. Give him proper linemates and ice time.
89% cheaper. My bad.The 90% cheaper option? 10% of Debrincat at $8.5 million would be less than Berggren makes today on his ELC. He's likely to sign a 2-3 year bridge deal, and if he ever gets remotely close to providing the same first line output of Debrincat, you are probably paying at least 75%, and again, if it's close to Debrincat, probably 80-90% or more.
Your perspective was flawed in the beginning, is flawed now, and will continue to be flawed on the way this business world of hockey works.
You don't get to keep your prospects on an ELC salary for their entire career. They don't remain bargains forever. You pay money for performance.
We should just sign Tarasenko and tell Ottawa good luck.
Yeah, should sign Tarasenko, and then trade him to Ottawa for DeBrincat, and let them pay for that favor.
You seem very concerned about overpayment.89% cheaper. My bad.
And that's fine that Berggren will get more expensive. The value provided by ELCs and 2nd contracts greatly outweigh full UFA value contracts.
Maximizing that value is more important than overpaying in a trade to then overpay for a pint sized winger.
Hudler's problem wasn't his skill, it was his size, for a season he was able to use his other skills to make up for that. Berggren's problem is he doesn't have the ability. His peak might be 25g 25a. But that makes him about 2/3rds the player ADB is and a career middle 6 winger on a team full of middle 6 wingers.Neither did lots of guys until they did it. I'm guessing Hudler also didn't have 30 goal upside, right? Get skilled forwards on to a scoring line with scoring line ice time and you'd be surprised.
By the time that deal is near its end, if the cap goes up as expected, you'll see SECOND LINE WINGERS getting 7-8 million a year. Which is the absolute worst case floor for Debrincat. (I would expect him to average 70 points a year or better in Detroit.)
If you like other players better, fine. If Detroit ends up paying an arm and a leg in the trade, I'll be against that as well. But signing this guy to a long term deal will neither hurt the team on the ice nor in the pocketbook.
89% cheaper. My bad.
And that's fine that Berggren will get more expensive. The value provided by ELCs and 2nd contracts greatly outweigh full UFA value contracts.
Maximizing that value is more important than overpaying in a trade to then overpay for a pint sized winger.
That's actually a good idea. Sign and trade for the same money no assets given out.Yeah, should sign Tarasenko, and then trade him to Ottawa for DeBrincat, and let them pay for that favor.
Locking up a tiny shooter at $8Mx8 plugs him into a top 6 with Raymond, Berggren is trending that way and maybe even Lombardi. I don't think Ras or Soderblom have enough juice to solidify a top 6 spot, but maybe. If we are going big game hunting I would much rather pay more for a bigger winger or at least one that drives his own offense.You seem very concerned about overpayment.
For the sake of discussion, let's say Detroit signs Debrincat to an 8x$8M deal for $64M total.
By the time that deal is near its end, if the cap goes up as expected, you'll see SECOND LINE WINGERS getting 7-8 million a year. Which is the absolute worst case floor for Debrincat. (I would expect him to average 70 points a year or better in Detroit.)
If you like other players better, fine. If Detroit ends up paying an arm and a leg in the trade, I'll be against that as well. But signing this guy to a long term deal will neither hurt the team on the ice nor in the pocketbook.
Like the 40+ goal scorer in Detroit reality? That one?We are operating under the notion that we pay fair value in the trade and fair value of the contract. Because nobody with half a brain would be sitting here parroting how smart it is to overpay in any capacity for any player.
And no, bridged 2nd contracts are not more valuable than fair value contracts for true first line players. Bridging players is a "value" because it allows your to have more information about what you are buying, but you could end up in a position where you give a bridge deal to a player, let's call him "Zadina". You are really hoping that "Zadina" can figure it out, but after more struggles "Zadina" asks for a trade, you can't find someone to trade "Zadina" to and ultimately you end up waiving said "Zadina" on a bridge deal. Outside of that, it's like having a lawyer on a retainer fee. I am just reserving the right to give you the fair value UFA contract down the road (if you don't wither way) that we are talking about being afraid to pay to Debrincat, who has already proven to be one of the league's best goal scorers. Bridge contracts have their place and do provide value, but there's a reason that the best players sign long term deals with their teams.
You are trying to create a reality that isn't guaranteed to exist. You view this as Debrincat underachieves his contract and proven performance, while Berggren or a first round pick or Kubalik or whoever all overachieve their contracts, historical performance and projections, and therefore we lose. It's far more likely that the pieces we have to give up flounder or remain the same; we have plenty of data to support that.
Just more clickbait bs. Someone else is reporting that Taresenko rejected all of the offers he had and fired his agent and hired a new agent.
89% cheaper. My bad.
And that's fine that Berggren will get more expensive. The value provided by ELCs and 2nd contracts greatly outweigh full UFA value contracts.
Maximizing that value is more important than overpaying in a trade to then overpay for a pint sized winger.
Locking up a tiny shooter at $8Mx8 plugs him into a top 6 with Raymond, Berggren is trending that way and maybe even Lombardi. I don't think Ras or Soderblom have enough juice to solidify a top 6 spot, but maybe. If we are going big game hunting I would much rather pay more for a bigger winger or at least one that drives his own offense.
Burning assets on DeBrincat because he wants to be here and Ottawa can't wait to be rid of him isn't my top option. Largely because then those assets, minutes, and cap space is now gone.
Like the 40+ goal scorer in Detroit reality? That one?
Exactly. A rebuild. Add to the team. Don't remove one of the few good pieces we have.Are we going to win a Cup in two years. If not, Berggren's "cheap" deal is worthless. Because if he's a 20-20 or 30-30 guy... He's going to come in at 5M long term or 4M on a bridge.
I hope we can get Debrincat without having to trade him... but it's insanity to pass on a bona-fide scorer because "This kid on an ELC could definitely be that guy someday". He's here. He's available. For once in the rebuild, let's not nickel and dime shit. Do it right.
Exactly. A rebuild. Add to the team. Don't remove one of the few good pieces we have.
You do realize that pairing him with Larkin and Raymond would immediately give him more help than he had all year with Ottawa, right? Batherson and Pinto COMBINED for 97 points last year, as opposed to Dylan's 79 by himself, let alone Raymond with 45 in a shortened season.Locking up a tiny shooter at $8Mx8 plugs him into a top 6 with Raymond, Berggren is trending that way and maybe even Lombardi. I don't think Ras or Soderblom have enough juice to solidify a top 6 spot, but maybe. If we are going big game hunting I would much rather pay more for a bigger winger or at least one that drives his own offense.
Burning assets on DeBrincat because he wants to be here and Ottawa can't wait to be rid of him isn't my top option. Largely because then those assets, minutes, and cap space is now gone.
Like the 40+ goal scorer in Detroit reality? That one?