Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The last point, is the reason we wanted a coach with a system, which takes time to implement.
Read and react goes away in a system

Hopefully this becomes the case once the team has digested the assignments and play becomes instinctual.

Would be nice to see them all on the same page again, having the play come to them instead chasing it as individuals

 

[LokiDog]

The more I read through this thread the more I feel like Switzerland.

I honestly believe its a little bit of both things going on, if we are trying to make sense of what the f*** is going on with this kid.

Have the Rangers contributed to screwing things up with Laf given his usage or lack thereof? Yes
Has Laf not taken enough initiative, forced himself up in the lineup and has lost his confidence? Yes

This very much.

I agree with everything that’s been written about Laf’s development being poorly handled and receiving few favors from the org. 100%.

My issue is that at the same time I genuinely feel - my opinion here - that there has been a frustrating degree of complacency on Laf’s behalf and that he has absolutely fumbled every chance and rare favor the organization HAS thrown his way. Even if they’ve been few and far between. Or not, depending how you view the situation. I personally feel he’s had a fair number of chances and fumbled them all, but It doesn’t matter. I 100% believe the organization has done atrociously with not just developing forwards, but when just developing an offense and identity. Aside from a good PP (which the league has definitely started to figure out) everything about our offense, including the development of the kids, is insanely frustrating.

However, I still can’t absolve Laf of responsibility here. I believe it rests on both parties. I’ll leave it to everyone else to decide how much Laf and how much NYR - I’ll just call it 50/50.

Kakko was handled the same inept way, but the difference to me has been that he’s less complacent and has a stronger motor. He is progressing, offensively as well, albeit slower than we had hoped. But the reason it’s easier to maintain faith and patience for KK is because he seems to be doing all he can on his end to counter the organizations poor handling of their kids. With KK I can’t split the blame 50/50.

I hate that Laf’s been besties with everyone and part of the big boy cool kid’s bromance club on day 1. I definitely don’t think it helped. Seeing Bread have his Hartemi season and goof off at practice and throw wild turnovers all over the ice in game isn’t a good example for a 1OA either. Bread should definitely never wear a letter. But also just being part of the Fox Lindy clique. I just don’t think that dynamic helped him at all.

 

[duhmetreE]

Speaking of chatGPT, we need that crew here to start ramping up the AI-generated poetry for our enjoyment for the new season.

Title: Alexis Lafrenière's Struggles on Ice: A Path to Redemption

By @will1066 Published: October 5, 2023

New York, New York - Alexis Lafrenière, the highly-touted first-overall pick of the 2020 NHL Draft, has faced his fair share of struggles during his early NHL career. After an impressive junior career in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL), where he was a dominant force with the Rimouski Océanic, expectations were sky-high for the young winger. However, his transition to the National Hockey League (NHL) has been marked by inconsistency and challenges.

Early Career Struggles: Lafrenière, hailed as the next generational talent in hockey, entered the league with immense pressure and expectations. As a rookie with the New York Rangers, he showed flashes of brilliance, but his overall performance was marred by inconsistency. In his first two NHL seasons, he struggled to match the point-per-game pace he displayed in the QMJHL.

Scoring Droughts: One of the most concerning aspects of Lafrenière's struggles has been his scoring droughts. There have been stretches where he has gone several games without registering a point, which is uncommon for a player of his caliber. Fans and analysts alike have been left wondering how a player with so much promise could find himself in such a slump.

Defensive Lapses: In addition to his offensive struggles, Lafrenière has had difficulties on the defensive end of the ice. His positioning and awareness in the defensive zone have often come into question, leading to turnovers and opportunities for the opposition.

Recovery and Redemption: The road to redemption for Alexis Lafrenière is not insurmountable. Several factors can contribute to his recovery and resurgence as a star player in the NHL.

1. Patience and Confidence: Lafrenière is still just 21 years old and has plenty of time to develop and mature as a player. Building confidence in his abilities and learning to handle the pressures of the NHL will be crucial for his growth.

2. Improved Defensive Play: Working with coaches and veterans on his defensive skills can help him become a more well-rounded player. Defensive responsibility is an essential aspect of a forward's game in the modern NHL.

3. Consistency and Mentoring: Surrounding Lafrenière with experienced mentors and linemates can help him find consistency in his play. Learning from seasoned veterans can be invaluable in a young player's development.

4. Support from the Rangers: The New York Rangers organization must continue to provide support and resources to help Lafrenière overcome his struggles. This includes coaching, sports psychology, and physical conditioning.

5. Self-Reflection and Adaptation: Lafrenière should take the time to analyze his game and make necessary adjustments. Adapting to the speed and intensity of the NHL can take time, but it is essential for his long-term success.

Conclusion: Alexis Lafrenière's struggles in the NHL are not uncommon for young players entering the league with high expectations. With patience, hard work, and the right support system in place, he has the potential to fulfill the promise that made him the top pick in the 2020 NHL Draft. The hockey world will be watching closely as he navigates the challenges of the NHL and strives to become the superstar many believe he can be.

you're a journalist now

 

[will1066]

The main point is still very visible. Kakko is trying too hard, still after years gripping his stick too hard. He's fighting with everything he's got to keep his nose above the water with the Rangers. He's never once found the flow state he was in before the got to the Rangers, the flow state that Hughes found after being allowed to just play for some seasons. The NYR run a pretend meritocracy which in reality is an aristocracy fixated on a pretend blue collar work ethic. Every winger should be a Chris Kreider prototype, unless you are the skilled UFA (Breadman in the current order) brought in for big bucks.

The Devils built their team around how Hischier and Hughes play the game. Chicago will do the same with Berard. The NYR has it's template from before WWII and that's that and there's basically f*ck all any prospect can do to change that. If they are lucky they fit the template like Cuylle and Othmann do.

 

[CLW]

How would you build a team around Laffreniere or even Kakko for that matter? What does that team look like? The Rangers have 6 wings in the top 9, I don't think there's one that resembles the other.

It would have to be a real rebuild, which the Rangers won't or is incapable of doing. So it's the perfect storm. Look at the team today, the chemistry and balance issues are tangible. And that is a consequence of poor management following a lazy blueprint. This preseason Kakko has played well with Cuylle and Othmann because with them Kakko is just playing. Add a good, quick C who can put his stick on the puck and and that line would be cooking. But this team has Horse Zib, Horse Trocheck and Horse Chytil at C. If you put Kakko with Panarin and Zib he will get blinders on and only try to find them with the puck, because of the hierarchy game within the game, instead of playing his own game.

It's similar for Laf. Put him with J. Hughes or Hischier, someone quick and skilled to play off and someone to find pucks in the corner and he would look like a different player I have little doubt. That would engage his instincts rather than him plodding on looking for things that aren't there and cannot happen because the inter-play is not there.

 

[will1066]

you're a journalist now

Honestly this should be a sticky at the top of the board for reference reading.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

He's not afraid to try to make a play, in year 5, under coach 3, GM 2, etc. And he's still not proving immediately capable of making them--plays he could make with ease at 18. Kakko came in and was electric as an 18 year old in the preseason, specifically on PP1 on the flank. He has yet to play that position since the second month of his pro career. That's what we're pointing out, and it's the same story with Lafreniere, who it seems is less capable as a defensive forward, but likely a more capable finisher than Kakko at this point. The progress they have made, meager as it is, has been pretty consistently against the grain of circumstance and usage. Just look at Kakko's WC performance the last time he was there and this past year. He's stagnated here.

Do you really believe that if they had stapled Laff on the PP year one and played him with whatever 1st or 2nd line combo you want, regardless of production, that he would look much different than he does right now?

 

[TGWL]

He doesn't really move his feet and he rarely if ever tries a high degree of difficulty play. He's on the ice, not the coaches.

He's the one doing read and react as a slowish wnger instead of driving play.

3 coaches now and he still doesn't engage. He's just not that guy. At some point you blame the only person who's skates touch the ice y'all.


The best explanation is he's a read and react guy on a team full of other read and react guys so they all kinda glide around in their lane waiting for someone else to do something.

Him cruising and not moving his feet was a concern before we drafted him, but it was accepted because he did everything else at a very good level when it came to offense.

Did NYR ruin Lafreniere? Did NYR turn him into a grinder?

Or are we just getting the pre-drafted player who has the same challenges and tendencies in a much higher league?

Added spoiler to reduce post length.

Spoiler

"Another observation I made is how Lafrenière skates. He very rarely stops on a dime when needed. Lafrenière tends to take wide turns to change direction, which slows him down in the flow of the game. The good news is that it can be coached out of him. Skating coaches in the NHL are more than capable of working on that with him."

"Lafrenière is very good with the puck and does an excellent job of finding the best option for a pass. However, when two or more opponents pressure him and take away most or all of the passing lanes, he seemingly hesitates and bails out on the play, turning the puck over."

"One of the most common things he does is park himself right in front of the opposing goalie. This shows his understanding of his own size and strength to take away the other goalie’s vision while battling for that net-front presence."

"He can get really complacent at times. When his team has the puck and is moving around smoothly, Lafrenière gets comfortable with the pace and makes bad passes and bad reads. That could be a problem at the next level,"

"However, I think he is misused on the power play. As mentioned earlier, Lafrenière loves getting in front of the opposing goalie and setting a screen, using his big frame. Why isn’t he placed in the same role on the powerplay though?"

"To stay in the d-zone, there are times where Lafrenière gets sucked into a battle from across the ice. He gets caught puck watching a lot. It is not as though this is a rare occasion either, as there are several moments in the game where he glides towards the puck and loses his positioning."

"Lafrenière also appears to have bad stamina. He looks extremely gassed at the end of his shifts that didn’t appear too long by any means. Lafrenière looks to make quick changes."

"He also is not afraid of getting involved physically"

"Lafrenière is strong on the forecheck but he does not forecheck very often, which is a shame. He is a very lazy back checker, unfortunately."

"Lafrenière is not a very good defensive zone player. He tends to get sucked down out of position and floats around in the d-zone."

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It would have to be a real rebuild, which the Rangers won't or is incapable of doing. So it's the perfect storm. Look at the team today, the chemistry and balance issues are tangible. And that is a consequence of poor management following a lazy blueprint. This preseason Kakko has played well with Cuylle and Othmann because with them Kakko is just playing. Add a good, quick C who can put his stick on the puck and and that line would be cooking. But this team has Horse Zib, Horse Trocheck and Horse Chytil at C. If you put Kakko with Panarin and Zib he will get blinders on and only try to find them with the puck, because of the hierarchy game within the game, instead of playing his own game.

It's similar for Laf. Put him with J. Hughes or Hischier, someone quick and skilled to play off and someone to find pucks in the corner and he would look like a different player I have little doubt. That would engage his instincts rather than him plodding on looking for things that aren't there and cannot happen because the inter-play is not there.

See this is where you guys lose me. First we complain that our prized young players aren't given the chance to play with the team's best players on the top 2 lines. But then, you complain that their development has stalled because if you put them with good players, they'll have blinders on and only want to pass to the good player. You can't have it both ways. We've also tired putting the three young guys together on a line and that didn't work either. What is a coach supposed to do?

 

[CLW]

See this is where you guys lose me. First we complain that our prized young players aren't given the chance to play with the team's best players on the top 2 lines. But then, you complain that their development has stalled because if you put them with good players, they'll have blinders on and only want to pass to the good player. You can't have it both ways.

I'm talking about style, fit and chemistry too.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Do you really believe that if they had stapled Laff on the PP year one and played him with whatever 1st or 2nd line combo you want, regardless of production, that he would look much different than he does right now?

yes

 

[NickyFotiu]

Looks like a 1970-1980 NHL player.

The theme for the org. Sather approved

Slats loves skilled players. Not sure where that came from. Slats is the guy that brought Zooks in twice despite Torts not wanting him at all. Slats was thrilled to play some of the fastest hockey in generations with the Oilers. Nobody wants Laf to be an elite player more than our own coaches, and management.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

yes

No, Tomato, tomato. But new coach, new year.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm talking about style, fit and chemistry too.

My man, if a guy needs the planets and stars to align perfectly for him to show what he can do then he's not the guy. Especially not a 1OA. You wanna say Panarin is a pain in the ass to play with, I agree. But that leaves two other centers and three other wingers to try and fit with. Mika, Chytil, Trocheck aren't dog shit and they all play different games. If you can't make it work with one of them, maybe it's not the other guys faults.

 

[NickyFotiu]

They told him the only path forward to a bigger role was to change positions. They showed him there was absolutely no opportunity at PP1 no matter what he did because the veterans own it and Panarin becomes a sad-boy when Strome isn't on the ice with him. They constantly tried to get him to play "the right way" while their $11m franchise winger coughed the puck up at the blue line and flung blind, back-handed passes across the offensive zone night after night. Then when he did show he could do all of those things early last season, the coach decided to send him back to the 3rd line to "shake things up" or some bullshit because the team had a slow start.

They took a can't miss, franchise altering talent and made him a passenger. They nuked his confidence by keeping him on a short leash and making him a tentative skater who deferred to the other guys on his line. Then they did it again with Lafreniere.

So again, how exactly do you think he should've taken more control of his career?

I wish I was there to hear these conversations. They sound very imaginative.

 

[CLW]

My man, if a guy needs the planets and stars to align perfectly for him to show what he can do then he's not the guy. Especially not a 1OA. You wanna say Panarin is a pain in the ass to play with, I agree. But that leaves two other centers and three other wingers to try and fit with. Mika, Chytil, Trocheck aren't dog shit and they all play different games. If you can't make it work with one of them, maybe it's not the other guys faults.

Well I think effen made a good point about read and react guys etc. It's like Zib longing for a Buch or Zucc to help his strengths. Look at Laffy's WJC highlights, he is part of a group making plays, he never was that one guy doing it all by himself.

 

[Levitate]

I mean I do think that Laf (and Kakko) have shown stretches of skilled play where it seemed like they were 'getting it' and then after like 7 games the coach bumped them out of the top six and sent them to play on the kids line where they had to figure out together wtf they were doing and deal with getting bumped from the top six by a coach who didn't trust them.

I hope Lavy is different but at the same tiem I'm still not sure I trust that Kakko is going to stick with the top line he's been on if results aren't immediate (whether or not it's his fault). Laf had a decent little run with Panarin before that line had a stale game or two and Gallant bumped Laf because "he can't play RW"

I'd argue the Rangers have been impatient with these two and they've always been the whipping boys for whatever was going on with the line they were on and always the ones demoted, always the ones held to expectations that they step in and dominate while the vets "take their time to get going"

They've been taught "we don't trust you with responsibility and we're not going to let you play and find your groove" and especially with Gallant they were apparently just thrown out on the ice and given a vague "play north south" as coaching direction

e: I mean I dunno that Laf was ever gonna be a superstar exactly but his entire tenure with the Rangers has just kinda been being forced into a role player, being expected to be so talented he could just immmediately take over and when that doesn't happen he gets demoted, etc. He's spent most of his career under a hands off coach that did little systems coaching at all. He's no Hughes, but I still bet he'd be a very good player if he'd been developed the same way as Hughes.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Well I think effen made a good point about read and react guys etc. It's like Zib longing for a Buch or Zucc to help his strengths. Look at Laffy's WJC highlights, he is part of a group making plays, he never was that one guy doing it all by himself.

Zib may long for Buch but he still put up a career high in points last year. Kreider may long for Stepan but he just had his two best goals scoring seasons. Pros learn how to play with other pros even if the fit isn't ideal. And if you want to point to the WJCs as proof of anything, take a look at all the Heisman QBs on great college teams that tear through the SEC or BIG 10 only to flame out in the pros. There's a massive jump in terms of quantity and talent once you get to the pros in any sport.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I mean I do think that Laf (and Kakko) have shown stretches of skilled play where it seemed like they were 'getting it' and then after like 7 games the coach bumped them out of the top six and sent them to play on the kids line where they had to figure out together wtf they were doing and deal with getting bumped from the top six by a coach who didn't trust them.

I hope Lavy is different but at the same tiem I'm still not sure I trust that Kakko is going to stick with the top line he's been on if results aren't immediate (whether or not it's his fault). Laf had a decent little run with Panarin before that line had a stale game or two and Gallant bumped Laf because "he can't play RW"

I'd argue the Rangers have been impatient with these two and they've always been the whipping boys for whatever was going on with the line they were on and always the ones demoted, always the ones held to expectations that they step in and dominate while the vets "take their time to get going"

They've been taught "we don't trust you with responsibility and we're not going to let you play and find your groove" and especially with Gallant they were apparently just thrown out on the ice and given a vague "play north south" as coaching direction

I’ll say that lavi has repeatedly said that he’s not gonna just jumble lines if they don’t produce immediately, so he’s saying the right things. Now will his actions fit his words.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I mean I do think that Laf (and Kakko) have shown stretches of skilled play where it seemed like they were 'getting it' and then after like 7 games the coach bumped them out of the top six and sent them to play on the kids line where they had to figure out together wtf they were doing and deal with getting bumped from the top six by a coach who didn't trust them.

I hope Lavy is different but at the same tiem I'm still not sure I trust that Kakko is going to stick with the top line he's been on if results aren't immediate (whether or not it's his fault). Laf had a decent little run with Panarin before that line had a stale game or two and Gallant bumped Laf because "he can't play RW"

I'd argue the Rangers have been impatient with these two and they've always been the whipping boys for whatever was going on with the line they were on and always the ones demoted, always the ones held to expectations that they step in and dominate while the vets "take their time to get going"

They've been taught "we don't trust you with responsibility and we're not going to let you play and find your groove" and especially with Gallant they were apparently just thrown out on the ice and given a vague "play north south" as coaching direction

e: I mean I dunno that Laf was ever gonna be a superstar exactly but his entire tenure with the Rangers has just kinda been being forced into a role player, being expected to be so talented he could just immmediately take over and when that doesn't happen he gets demoted, etc. He's spent most of his career under a hands off coach that did little systems coaching at all. He's no Hughes, but I still bet he'd be a very good player if he'd been developed the same way as Hughes.

But if he can't dominate third line competition and third pair defenseman, what makes you think he'll fare much better against top lines and d-pairings? This idea that these coaches haver demanded Laff morph into the ghost of Jan Erixon doesn't feel very accurate to me. I don't think any coach here has expected Laff to just take over but you would think that at some point all this natural talent would manifest in some way.

 

[Levitate]

I’ll say that lavi has repeatedly said that he’s not gonna just jumble lines if they don’t produce immediately, so he’s saying the right things. Now will his actions fit his words.

The fact that Zibanejad and Kreider are such a matched pair and Panarin has such preferences about who he wants to play with has been given too much leash by coaches at this point I think and makes it hard to sort out a lineup that actually makes sense rather than is catered to a couple of the top guys.

I'm not even advocating that Zibanejad and Kreider be split up but also that whoever plays on that line ends up having to awkwardly fit into it as I'm not entirely sure those two have been great about integrating a teammate at 5v5

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I’ll say that lavi has repeatedly said that he’s not gonna just jumble lines if they don’t produce immediately, so he’s saying the right things. Now will his actions fit his words.

They said the exact same thing about Gallant when he got here.

 

[effen]

Him cruising and not moving his feet was a concern before we drafted him, but it was accepted because he did everything else at a very good level when it came to offense.

Did NYR ruin Lafreniere? Did NYR turn him into a grinder?

Or are we just getting the pre-drafted player who has the same challenges and tendencies in a much higher league?

Added spoiler to reduce post length.

Spoiler

"Another observation I made is how Lafrenière skates. He very rarely stops on a dime when needed. Lafrenière tends to take wide turns to change direction, which slows him down in the flow of the game. The good news is that it can be coached out of him. Skating coaches in the NHL are more than capable of working on that with him."

"Lafrenière is very good with the puck and does an excellent job of finding the best option for a pass. However, when two or more opponents pressure him and take away most or all of the passing lanes, he seemingly hesitates and bails out on the play, turning the puck over."

"One of the most common things he does is park himself right in front of the opposing goalie. This shows his understanding of his own size and strength to take away the other goalie’s vision while battling for that net-front presence."

"He can get really complacent at times. When his team has the puck and is moving around smoothly, Lafrenière gets comfortable with the pace and makes bad passes and bad reads. That could be a problem at the next level,"

"However, I think he is misused on the power play. As mentioned earlier, Lafrenière loves getting in front of the opposing goalie and setting a screen, using his big frame. Why isn’t he placed in the same role on the powerplay though?"

"To stay in the d-zone, there are times where Lafrenière gets sucked into a battle from across the ice. He gets caught puck watching a lot. It is not as though this is a rare occasion either, as there are several moments in the game where he glides towards the puck and loses his positioning."

"Lafrenière also appears to have bad stamina. He looks extremely gassed at the end of his shifts that didn’t appear too long by any means. Lafrenière looks to make quick changes."

"He also is not afraid of getting involved physically"

"Lafrenière is strong on the forecheck but he does not forecheck very often, which is a shame. He is a very lazy back checker, unfortunately."

"Lafrenière is not a very good defensive zone player. He tends to get sucked down out of position and floats around in the d-zone."

That spoiler is hilariously accurate, down to him being good in front of the net and the Rangers correctly trying to make that more his game and the board getting upset at that report.

There are a lot of words written in this thread that do not have very much to do with Lafreniere the actual hockey player you can see with your eyes and a lot to do with hypothetical 1st overalls who are very skillful. He's not. He's not. He's not skillful. He's not that guy. He's not a hypothetical 1OV. He's Alexis Lafreniere. Work with what you have, not what you wish you had.

 

[Levitate]

But if he can't dominate third line competition and third pair defenseman, what makes you think he'll fare much better against top lines and d-pairings? This idea that these coaches haver demanded Laff morph into the ghost of Jan Erixon doesn't feel very accurate to me. I don't think any coach here has expected Laff to just take over but you would think that at some point all this natural talent would manifest in some way.

I dunno about dominate but the kid line did end up doing pretty well! I don't think that they've also ever expected him to become a defensive specialist, but a "role" player can just be someone who has to play support to the top six...you're giving them a rest, and you don't take away their PP time. You're not the focus, they are.

But I also think it's hard for a young player without detailed coaching to be moved around the lineup like they have and given relatively short opportunities to show what they can do. I mean, I'm still mad about that Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko line looking so good last year but Kakko getting booted after a few games because they were generating grade A chance after chance but just not putting them in. Yes, somehow that was Kakko's fault, he's the one that got demoted.

 

[Machinehead]

"He's 21 and scored 35 even strength points."

Cool, I'm 32 and I hate sports.

We have the same number of 40-point seasons in the NHL.