Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[NickyFotiu]

He wasn't an elite player at 18 and that shouldn't have been the expectation.

It's an established fact that the team made him a third liner, wanted him to grind and muck, and wanted him to play safe and not make mistakes. Is the claim that he didn't process or internalize any of that?

It's also an established fact that they didn't give him any significant PP time and none on PP1.

The team's excuse is that they needed to win, but it turns out that was very poor for Laf/Kakko's development.

Not that I do not trust your takes but I'm still waiting for a link to all these coaches telling Laf he can only be a grinder.

Not sure why you think playing on the 3rd line means you can only be a grinder.

Have you ever seen Sidney Crosby grind? Did the Penguins tell him he can not skate hard, score or carry the puck? Crosby grinds as well as almost any player in the league. There are many elite players that also grind. Working hard to get the puck and keeping the puck is grinding.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't for a second believe anyone in the Rangers organization told Laff or Kakko that they need to be 3rd line grinders. Feels made up.

 

[Mandar]

Not that I do not trust your takes but I'm still waiting for a link to all these coaches telling Laf he can only be a grinder.

Not sure why you think playing on the 3rd line means you can only be a grinder.

Have you ever seen Sidney Crosby grind? Did the Penguins tell him he can not skate hard, score or carry the puck? Crosby grinds as well as almost any player in the league. There are many elite players that also grind. Working hard to get the puck and keeping the puck is grinding.

tough to be a grinder when they wont even allow you to breathe

 

[LokiDog]

I don't for a second believe anyone in the Rangers organization told Laff or Kakko that they need to be 3rd line grinders. Feels made up.

It’s so obviously made up. I’m sure they were told they needed to focus on their game away from the puck and that’s now morphed into the legend of all of the kids being explicitly told they would be grinders. In fact, I heard they weren’t allowed to even watch Bread or Zib practice and only watch tape of Jesper Fast exclusively. It’s an established fact.

 

[NickyFotiu]

tough to be a grinder when they wont even allow you to breathe

That is true. The Penguins do allow Crosby to breathe while grinding. I think Marchand, Forsberg, Hossa, etc were allowed to breathe while grinding. My bad.

 

[LokiDog]

That is true. The Penguins do allow Crosby to breathe while grinding. I think Marchand, Forsberg, Hossa, etc were allowed to breathe while grinding. My bad.

I don’t know if they were allowed to breath. They just took some ownership of their lives so they did it anyway. Sneaking a breath here and there when their coaches weren’t looking. Not too many though. They have elite grinds per breath stats.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don’t know if they were allowed to breath. They just took some ownership of their lives so they did it anyway. Sneaking a breath here and there when their coaches weren’t looking. Not too many though. They have elite grinds per breath stats.

I hear Kakko and Chytil both wore CPAP machines at night all summer. Sadly, Laff did not.

 

[Mandar]

I hear Kakko and Chytil both wore CPAP machines at night all summer. Sadly, Laff did not.

his was clogged, and the NYR wouldnt let him get it unclogged. "They" wouldnt help him.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don’t know if they were allowed to breath. They just took some ownership of their lives so they did it anyway. Sneaking a breath here and there when their coaches weren’t looking. Not too many though. They have elite grinds per breath stats.

Zetterberg and the Sedins did not breathe while grinding. They decided until they score they will hold their breath. It paid off. They became all stars while also grinding.

 

[IDvsEGO]

i think transparency by managements is big for fans and for sports (and sometimes even for players!)

it also promotes more discussion and gains more eyes!

Transparency is terrible for sports.

It’s fun to speculate but if gm’s managers and players all only told the full and complete truth, it would be terrible.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Larry's right though. Sit him down, tell him he's the teams first line RW for the season and see what he can do. Or second line if you want Kakko on the first.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Most frustrated thread on HF

 

[NickyFotiu]

Larry's right though. Sit him down, tell him he's the teams first line RW for the season and see what he can do. Or second line if you want Kakko on the first.

I'm fine with that. I do not place much emphasis on line numbers. The Zooks line with Brassard and Poul was our best line when they were called our "third line". Regardless of line number Laf is going to have to earn being an elite player. No coach can magically do it for him by putting him on the ice with certain linemates. An elite Laf will be elite whether he plays with Bread, CK, KK, Mika, Chytil or Tros. They are all skilled NHL players. When Crosby plays with the 4th line nobody expects Crosby to play down to their level or fight. He is still Crosby.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't for a second believe anyone in the Rangers organization told Laff or Kakko that they need to be 3rd line grinders. Feels made up.

Of course it's made up. It's so preposterous I can't even believe it's being regurgitated by posters on here. It's the ultimate form of cope for people who can't handle the fact the Rangers didn't get the franchise player we all hope for out of a 1st or 2nd overall.

 

[JCProdigy]

The more I read through this thread the more I feel like Switzerland.

I honestly believe its a little bit of both things going on, if we are trying to make sense of what the f*** is going on with this kid.

Have the Rangers contributed to screwing things up with Laf given his usage or lack thereof? Yes
Has Laf not taken enough initiative, forced himself up in the lineup and has lost his confidence? Yes

To me it's not too complicated. The onus is on the player to become the best he can possibly be at his chosen profession. One of the long-term duties of the team is to put the player in the best position (mentally/physically/etc.) to achieve that. Unfortunately, that duty can contradict short-term goals, mainly a coach and GM trying to keep their jobs by producing results if demanded. Still, unless there is some major f***ery going on, we are talking around the margins as, just like any of us in our professional lives, it's up to the player to take charge of their life. Still doesn't mean they would succeed if their skill doesn't translate, no matter how hard they work.

With that, I don't think it can be glossed over that Lafreniere joined a unique situation for a no 1 OA draft pick. It almost goes without saying but pretty much if you're a 1OA, you are going to a team that, at that point, sucks on offense, probably not good on the PP and was a bottom feeder points wise the year before.

For example, take a look at the Devils the year before drafting Hughes. 29th in points, 26th in goals scored, 21st in PP%.
Leafs and Matthews: 30th in pts, 28th in goals, 29th in PP%
etc. etc. etc.
The Rangers the year before though: 17th in points, 5th(!) in goals scored, 7th in PP%

I mean, I can see why the Rangers used Lafreniere like they did. They didn't really "need" a 1OA draft pick when they drafted him.

 

[Levitate]

Again. Lafreniere has not earned a top-six spot. He has seemed paralyzed. My best information is that the Rangers were pleased with his results on his testing on and off the ice. There is no indication that he was lazy over the summer. He had a decent first couple of days on the ice but it’s all been downhill since the first exhibition game in Boston on Sept. 24.

Huh, first actual good information about how Lafreniere trained over hte summer and the results.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Transparency is terrible for sports.

It’s fun to speculate but if gm’s managers and players all only told the full and complete truth, it would be terrible.

i was more referring to transparency in areas such as how the team is being constructed, what the goals are for the systems, end-year assessments, etc...

i agree transparency isnt needed with things such as personal issues or sore subjects like locker room problems!

 

[IDvsEGO]

i was more referring to transparency in areas such as how the team is being constructed, what the goals are for the systems, end-year assessments, etc...

i agree transparency isnt needed with things such as personal issues or sore subjects like locker room problems!

Yeah that’s still terrible.
As a gm you want long term relationships with at least some of your players, but that’s not gonna happen if they think a bad season is gonna get them called out in the press, plus if they do have a bad year and you call it out, it ranks their value so you get no return.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Yeah that’s still terrible.
As a gm you want long term relationships with at least some of your players, but that’s not gonna happen if they think a bad season is gonna get them called out in the press, plus if they do have a bad year and you call it out, it ranks their value so you get no return.

i dont think someone being honest and you being self-reflective would come off as a negative; that just seems like a positive attitude toward your own betterment

but to each their own i suppose!

 

[JCProdigy]

i dont think someone being honest and you being self-reflective would come off as a negative; that just seems like a positive attitude toward your own betterment

but to each their own i suppose!

What's to say that can't happen without blabbing it out to the public?!?!

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

What's to say that can't happen without blabbing it out to the public?!?!

because it seems irrational to make up a story to the press then have another behind the scenes!

if presented in a professional manner theres no reason the criticism cant be made; and one that would likely match with what people see anyhow, thus showing an understanding

the need to lie to the press for the sake of 'privacy'.. about actions and games that happens in front of live audiences.. comes across as fake because it is lol

how am i to say if theyre just being dishonest or are genuinely ignorant to the issue at hand; this is why transparency is important for maintaining responsibility

 

[UnSandvich]

At this point Laf is a decent middle-sixer, with potential to be more. Will he fulfill that potential? Idk.

But goddamn if he isn't the most vanilla 40ish point, 100+ hit player i've ever seen

 

[Daves a mess]

That third line grind water boarding by 3 coaches surely paid dividends on that muffin boy back check against the Isles the other night.

He was slogging along so slow on that play that his "dive" to break up said play looked akin to a really chubby neighbor diving on a bone dry slip n slide.

 

[JCProdigy]

because it seems irrational to make up a story to the press then have another behind the scenes!

if presented in a professional manner theres no reason the criticism cant be made; and one that would likely match with what people see anyhow, thus showing an understanding

the need to lie to the press for the sake of 'privacy'.. about actions and games that happens in front of live audiences.. comes across as fake because it is lol

how am i to say if theyre just being dishonest or are genuinely ignorant to the issue at hand; this is why transparency is important for maintaining responsibility

Again, why would they have to make up stories to the press. Just omitting detailed info if they so choose would be sufficient in this scenario. Bland answers are seen all the time when talking to the press.

As long as their is transparency and responsibility between the actual parties involved, then what is needed is maintained.

 

[JCProdigy]

At this point Laf is a decent middle-sixer, with potential to be more. Will he fulfill that potential? Idk.

But goddamn if he isn't the most vanilla 40ish point, 100+ hit player i've ever seen

Pretty much this. In context, he's not living up to expectations driven by draft position. Disappointment is understandable. Still not time to throw out the baby with the bath water as his number against the cap would not necessitate movement of the player given his current production.

It would seem, barring a miracle, that an elite, line driving, player is out but the hope is he eventually breaks out a bit like a Sam Renheirt (2OA) or another 1OA in Nugent-Hopkins.

Both Rangers and Laf have 2 years to find out.