Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[NickyFotiu]

It would have to be a real rebuild, which the Rangers won't or is incapable of doing. So it's the perfect storm. Look at the team today, the chemistry and balance issues are tangible. And that is a consequence of poor management following a lazy blueprint. This preseason Kakko has played well with Cuylle and Othmann because with them Kakko is just playing. Add a good, quick C who can put his stick on the puck and and that line would be cooking. But this team has Horse Zib, Horse Trocheck and Horse Chytil at C. If you put Kakko with Panarin and Zib he will get blinders on and only try to find them with the puck, because of the hierarchy game within the game, instead of playing his own game.

It's similar for Laf. Put him with J. Hughes or Hischier, someone quick and skilled to play off and someone to find pucks in the corner and he would look like a different player I have little doubt. That would engage his instincts rather than him plodding on looking for things that aren't there and cannot happen because the inter-play is not there.

Great players like Crosby, Gretz, etc have double shifted on 4th lines with some real scrubs and still looked great. Are we really saying there is nobody on the Rangers that Laf can play with and excel? If that is the case then Laf is not an elite player.

Some of the narratives being pushed are really going too far. Remember when Laf scored 2 nice skilled plays? Does anyone in their right minds think Rangers coaches did not cheer those goals on? That they did not praise him when he got back to the bench or after the game? Does anyone in their right minds think our coaches tell Laf no skill plays. We want you to be a grinder? Why don't they tell Chytil that? Same line. Why didn't they tell Zooks that when he was on the 3rd line with Ben Pouliet?

Nobody is telling Laf not to skate fast. Nobody is telling Laf he can't carry the puck. Nobody is not telling Laf not to be in great shape. Nobody is telling Laf not to be an elite player. Quite far from it. He started his career on the first line. We are still trying to give him a spot on the first line. It is up to Laf to show he can do it.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I dunno about dominate but the kid line did end up doing pretty well! I don't think that they've also ever expected him to become a defensive specialist, but a "role" player can just be someone who has to play support to the top six...you're giving them a rest, and you don't take away their PP time. You're not the focus, they are.

But I also think it's hard for a young player without detailed coaching to be moved around the lineup like they have and given relatively short opportunities to show what they can do. I mean, I'm still mad about that Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko line looking so good last year but Kakko getting booted after a few games because they were generating grade A chance after chance but just not putting them in. Yes, somehow that was Kakko's fault, he's the one that got demoted.

Agree, I hope that's a thing this season.

 

[effen]

I think the Rangers are properly developing Alexis Lafreniere the actual player. The board is mad at them not developing Firstis Overallfiere. That's not a real person who exists.

 

[Greschner4]

Uncle Larry hit it out of the stadium with the "just breathe" bit. Neither Laf nor Kakko has breathed freely for a single second since they became Rangers. That's on the Rangers.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Uncle Larry hit it out of the stadium with the "just breathe" bit. Neither Laf nor Kakko has breathed freely for a single second since they became Rangers. That's on the Rangers.

You have a brand new coach that just put him on the first line. When did our new coach tell Laf he can not breathe? What would Lav gain buy holding Laf back for no reason? If Laf excels it makes Lav's job 10 times easier. Now if you say Lav coaching the team and being upset with a lack of hustle is telling a guy he can not breathe than that player is not going to be able to breathe with any NHL coach. Part of coaching is letting players know when they are not giving a hard enough effort. That goes for every position and every line on the team. If a coach does not say anything to guys just mailing it in than that coach is not doing his job and should be fired.

 

[Greschner4]

Were Laf and Kakko given the leashes and the freedom Zib and Bread were given? That's really the question. None of the other 1OAs -- Hughes, McKinnon, etc. -- have had to deal with that hierarchical, two standard, know your place and your role, rook BS. That kind of thing destroys confidence. The Kakko healthy scratch in Game 6 Tampa was insane.

You have a brand new coach that just put him on the first line. When did our new coach tell Laf he can not breathe? What would Lav gain buy holding Laf back for no reason? If Laf excels it makes Lav's job 10 times easier. Now if you say Lav coaching the team and being upset with a lack of hustle is telling a guy he can not breathe than that player is not going to be able to breathe with any NHL coach. Part of coaching is letting players know when they are not giving a hard enough effort. That goes for every position and every line on the team. If a coach does not say anything to guys just mailing it in than that coach is not doing his job and should be fired.

First line RW.

Square peg, round hole.

How about this instead -- we're not trying to fit you into where you don't belong by making you adjust; we're going to make other people adjust to make you the best you can be?

That's what never happened.

 

[LokiDog]

Uncle Larry hit it out of the stadium with the "just breathe" bit. Neither Laf nor Kakko has breathed freely for a single second since they became Rangers. That's on the Rangers.

That’s also insanely hyperbolic considering they’re 22 year old kids making millions and ALL I ever see is Laf chuckling himself silly chewing bubble gum and yucking it up with the boys. Confidence may be part of this equation but to say he hasn’t been able to breath freely for a single second since being taken 1st overall by one of the richest franchises in sports is just silly.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

This very much.

I agree with everything that’s been written about Laf’s development being poorly handled and receiving few favors from the org. 100%.

My issue is that at the same time I genuinely feel - my opinion here - that there has been a frustrating degree of complacency on Laf’s behalf and that he has absolutely fumbled every chance and rare favor the organization HAS thrown his way. Even if they’ve been few and far between. Or not, depending how you view the situation. I personally feel he’s had a fair number of chances and fumbled them all, but It doesn’t matter. I 100% believe the organization has done atrociously with not just developing forwards, but when just developing an offense and identity. Aside from a good PP (which the league has definitely started to figure out) everything about our offense, including the development of the kids, is insanely frustrating.

However, I still can’t absolve Laf of responsibility here. I believe it rests on both parties. I’ll leave it to everyone else to decide how much Laf and how much NYR - I’ll just call it 50/50.

Kakko was handled the same inept way, but the difference to me has been that he’s less complacent and has a stronger motor. He is progressing, offensively as well, albeit slower than we had hoped. But the reason it’s easier to maintain faith and patience for KK is because he seems to be doing all he can on his end to counter the organizations poor handling of their kids. With KK I can’t split the blame 50/50.

I hate that Laf’s been besties with everyone and part of the big boy cool kid’s bromance club on day 1. I definitely don’t think it helped. Seeing Bread have his Hartemi season and goof off at practice and throw wild turnovers all over the ice in game isn’t a good example for a 1OA either. Bread should definitely never wear a letter. But also just being part of the Fox Lindy clique. I just don’t think that dynamic helped him at all.

Kakko had more experience against grown men and professionals than Laf did before getting to the NHL. Finns I think in general tend to be more polished defensively. Kakko had to learn to be a two way player early on before reaching the NHL. Laf was a dominant offensive player in Juniors. That was his MO. To be a dominant offensive player. The Rangers never gave him that opportunity. I can't express enough what being on PP1 from the start would have done to boost his growth as an offensive player.

That’s also insanely hyperbolic considering they’re 22 year old kids making millions and ALL I ever see is Laf chuckling himself silly chewing bubble gum and yucking it up with the boys. Confidence may be part of this equation but to say he hasn’t been able to breath freely for a single second since being taken 1st overall by one of the richest franchises in sports is just silly.

He's not allowed to enjoy himself and bring enthusiasm to the rink now?

 

[Greschner4]

Kakko had more experience against grown men and professionals than Laf did before getting to the NHL. Finns I think in general tend to be more polished defensively. Kakko had to learn to be a two way player early on before reaching the NHL. Laf was a dominant offensive player in Juniors. That was his MO. To be a dominant offensive player. The Rangers never gave him that opportunity. I can't express enough what being on PP1 from the start would have done to boost his growth as an offensive player.

It's truly incredible that Laf has seen essentially zero power play time as a New York Ranger. In favor of people like Ryan f***ing Strome.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Were Laf and Kakko given the leashes and the freedom Zib and Bread were given? That's really the question. None of the other 1OAs -- Hughes, McKinnon, etc. -- have had to deal with that hierarchical, two standard, know your place and your role, rook BS. That kind of thing destroys confidence. The Kakko healthy scratch in Game 6 Tampa was insane.


First line RW.

Square peg, round hole.

How about this instead -- we're not trying to fit you into where you don't belong by making you adjust; we're going to make other people adjust to make you the best you can be?

That's what never happened.

Sitting KK was not crazy. He was not producing and he took it exactly how he should have by coming back the next season with much more effort.

So Laf can't play RW on the first line and cant play LW with Chytil and KK?

Where can Laf be an elite player? Most elite wings can play either wing. Elite centers can play center or wing. Once you cross center ice which wing you are on makes so little difference. This isn't some table top hockey game where centers stay in the center and wingers only go up and down in a straight line on their side. In the last preseason game where Laf did not backcheck hard he was on the left side. Laf's issues have little to nothing to do with what side of the ice he is on. I prefer playing the off wing. Many people do but its not that big a deal to switch sides. Once you cross the red line you will often switch sides. In the offensive zone you are all over the ice. You do not just stay on your own side.

 

[LokiDog]

He's not allowed to enjoy himself and bring enthusiasm to the rink now?

I want you to point to one single syllable of my post that said that. All I said was “he hasn’t been able to breath freely for a single second since being drafted” is complete nonsense.

 

[Greschner4]

Sitting KK was not crazy. He was not producing and he took it exactly how he should have by coming back the next season with much more effort.

So Laf can't play RW on the first line and cant play LW with Chytil and KK?

Where can Laf be an elite player? Most elite wings can play either wing. Elite centers can play center or wing. Once you cross center ice which wing you are on makes so little difference. This isn't some table top hockey game where centers stay in the center and wingers only go up and down in a straight line on their side. In the last preseason game where Laf did not backcheck hard he was on the left side. Laf's issues have little to nothing to do with what side of the ice he is on. I prefer playing the off wing. Many people do but its not that big a deal to switch sides. Once you cross the red line you will often switch sides. In the offensive zone you are all over the ice. You do not just stay on your own side.

He's not a right winger. Why would you ever ask a 1OA to learn a new position? The question again is, "Why was his development one of continuous adjustments rather than adjusting things to his benefit?" Other teams don't do things that way.

I want you to point to one single syllable of my post that said that. All I said was “he hasn’t been able to breath freely for a single second since being drafted” is complete nonsense.

Well, there's kind of an obvious built-in, "on the ice" included in the observation.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

It's truly incredible that Laf has seen essentially zero power play time as a New York Ranger. In favor of people like Ryan f***ing Strome.

And that's the biggest issue. They could've kept him on the 3rd line at even strength but if he was on PP1 gaining that confidence offensively things would look a lot different right now. He'd have that base to build on right now. Putting him in the top six and he would now have 3 years of experience on the top PP unit.

Instead, he has nothing to build on. If they put him on PP1 he'd be starting from 0 right now. They completely destroyed his development.

I want you to point to one single syllable of my post that said that. All I said was “he hasn’t been able to breath freely for a single second since being drafted” is complete nonsense.

It's not that he hasn't been able to breathe free and easy. It's simply that he's been relegated to what he is by the organization. He hasn't been given a legitimate chance at meaningful PP1 time or top line time as "the guy". And every time he or his line made a mistake his coaches have punished him. That's a huge issue.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He's not a right winger. Why would you ever ask a 1OA to learn a new position?

Why would you ever ask a hall of fame center to play wing occasionally? Why would you ever ask a hall of famer to switch wings occasionally. These things happen and are not this huge deal. They aren't asking him to play defense or goalie. He is still playing wing. Lets forget playing RW since you seem to think it is like learning Chinese math for some reason when it is not. Laf has played a huge amount of his career on LW. Why hasn't he shown elite skills at LW? I know Slats, Drury, Quinn, Gallant and now Lav have told him no skating fast, no shooting well, no stick handling well and he is not allowed to keep posession of the puck. They are desparate to stop Laf from being a superstar player?

 

[LokiDog]

He's not a right winger. Why would you ever ask a 1OA to learn a new position? The question again is, "Why was his development one of continuous adjustments rather than adjusting things to his benefit?" Other teams don't do things that way.



Well, there's kind of an obvious built-in, "on the ice" included in the observation.

Yes, on the ice. Laf does plenty of goofing and laughing and smiling on the ice. The observation is silly. Your pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Laf can be mishandled and you can absolve him of any agency or responsibility in how his career has gone so far if that’s the view you want to adopt, but now he has been SO mistreated that he can’t even breath freely? And never could, since his rookie season?

 

[Greschner4]

Why would you ever ask a hall of fame center to play wing occasionally? Why would you ever ask a hall of famer to switch wings occasionally. These things happen and are not this huge deal. Lets forget playing RW since you seem to think it is like learning Chinese math for some reason when it is not. Laf has played a huge amount of his career on LW. Why hasn't he shown elite skills at LW? I know Slats, Drury, Quinn, Gallant and now Lav have told him no skating fast, no shooting well, no stick handling well and he is not allowed to keep posession of the puck. They are desparate to stop Laf from being a superstar player?

Because he was told in words and actions to become a third-line grinder who never takes chances and can't make mistakes. Pretty much the same thing with Kakko.

They got two guys who dominated major competitions and then a few months later were told to be third liners and don't make mistakes. At 18-19.

Yes, on the ice. Laf does plenty of goofing and laughing and smiling on the ice. The observation is silly. Your pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Laf can be mishandled and you can absolve him of any agency or responsibility in how his career has gone so far if that’s the view you want to adopt, but now he has been SO mistreated that he can’t even breath freely? And never could, since his rookie season?

Because being mistreated and miscast has shot his confidence and made it so he can't "breathe freely" on the ice.

Not complicated.

 

[Mandar]

It's truly incredible that Laf has seen essentially zero power play time as a New York Ranger. In favor of people like Ryan f***ing Strome.

Cause Ryan f***ing Strome was better than him on the PP.....and we had a top 10 PP. He got very limited minutes on PP2 and did shit with it (although most of that unit did shit also.....he couldnt have helped that?)

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

wtf should drury be doing? Posting on hf to get our opinion?
This take is out there.
I can easily get a sense of how he evaluated a roster by his moves. I don’t need him to announce a thesis statement on his upcoming moves, I get that when he makes a move.
This seems like just random drury hate because he’s not hosting a press conference every 3 weeks to ask fans what he should do…

i think transparency by managements is big for fans and for sports (and sometimes even for players!)

it also promotes more discussion and gains more eyes!

 

[NickyFotiu]

Because he was told in words and actions to become a third-line grinder who never takes chances and can't make mistakes.

Please link me to who told Laf he is not allowed to skate fast, shoot well, carry the puck well, etc. Please link me to who told Laf that he must be a grinder and he is not allowed to be a scorer. I would like to know this persons name and when it was done. I would also like to know why all 3 Rangers coaches would do this since if Laf plays like an elite player the coach will be a huge beneficiary. Lav was just made coach. Did Drury tell Lav that he can not allow Laf to be an elite player if he wants the coaching job?

 

[effen]

Some of the posts here are very divorced from reality.

Cause Ryan f***ing Strome was better than him on the PP.....and we had a top 10 PP. He got very limited minutes on PP2 and did shit with it (although most of that unit did shit also.....he couldnt have helped that?)

How dare you insinuate Laf should jump over the impossible barrier that is being better than Ryan Strome.

 

[LokiDog]

Because he was told in words and actions to become a third-line grinder who never takes chances and can't make mistakes.



Because being mistreated and miscast has shot his confidence and made it so he can't "breathe freely" on the ice.

Not complicated.

A minute ago it was never once since he was drafted. I disagree, regardless. Two things can be true at once. The team has mishandled his development very much. He also has not ever shown a fire in his belly to seize an opportunity but has fumbled plenty of them. You wanna call it 90/10 team’s fault? 75/25? 50/50? It doesn’t matter. At this point the thread is devolving into a pity party for him. Now he has no responsibility for his performance and has not just been mishandled, but we’re painting him like some poor abused pre-Hogwarts Harry Potter living in endless abuse under Dolan’s staircase. Wake up Laffy!! I want pancakes!

 

[effen]

Please link me to who told Laf he is not allowed to skate fast, shoot well, carry the puck well, etc. Please link me to who told Laf that he must be a grinder and he is not allowed to be a scorer. I would like to know this persons name and when it was done. I would also like to know why all 3 Rangers coaches would do this since if Laf plays like an elite player the coach will be a huge beneficiary. Lav was just made coach. Did Drury tell Lav that he can not allow Laf to be an elite player if he wants the coaching job?

And under no circumstances is he to be on PP1 so they can ruin his confidence. Don't forget that.

 

[Greschner4]

Please link me to who told Laf he is not allowed to skate fast, shoot well, carry the puck well, etc. Please link me to who told Laf that he must be a grinder and he is not allowed to be a scorer. I would like to know this persons name and when it was done. I would also like to know why all 3 Rangers coaches would do this since if Laf plays like an elite player the coach will be a huge beneficiary. Lav was just made coach. Did Drury tell Lav that he can not allow Laf to be an elite player if he wants the coaching job?

He wasn't an elite player at 18 and that shouldn't have been the expectation.

It's an established fact that the team made him a third liner, wanted him to grind and muck, and wanted him to play safe and not make mistakes. Is the claim that he didn't process or internalize any of that?

It's also an established fact that they didn't give him any significant PP time and none on PP1.

The team's excuse is that they needed to win, but it turns out that was very poor for Laf/Kakko's development.

 

[NickyFotiu]

And under no circumstances is he to be on PP1 so they can ruin his confidence. Don't forget that.

Laf is not allowed to score. Our management and coaches have told him he is only allowed to be a grinder. Its an unusual strategy. Chytil is allowed to skate fast and make skillful plays. Chytil is allowed to score but we have told Laf he is only allowed to be a grinder. In fact our coaches secretly chewed Laf out when he made 2 nice skilled plays for goals in the last 2 seasons. They were very upset with him!

 

[effen]

I can't believe the Ranger org would make Laf so sad suggesting he play defense that he wouldn't skate hard for going on 4 years now.

His heart <///3.