Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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They told him the only path forward to a bigger role was to change positions. They showed him there was absolutely no opportunity at PP1 no matter what he did because the veterans own it and Panarin becomes a sad-boy when Strome isn't on the ice with him. They constantly tried to get him to play "the right way" while their $11m franchise winger coughed the puck up at the blue line and flung blind, back-handed passes across the offensive zone night after night. Then when he did show he could do all of those things early last season, the coach decided to send him back to the 3rd line to "shake things up" or some bullshit because the team had a slow start.

They took a can't miss, franchise altering talent and made him a passenger. They nuked his confidence by keeping him on a short leash and making him a tentative skater who deferred to the other guys on his line. Then they did it again with Lafreniere.

So again, how exactly do you think he should've taken more control of his career?
100000% I'm happy im not the only one who sees this. I feel like im in the Twilight Zone sometimes.

Rangers so far have destroyed Lafs career. It's on them. They have long distinguished history of doing the same thing to other draftees.
 
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He never should have bulked up. It didn't work and didn't take. He's thicker, slower, and less agile than he was in the WJC. If he bulked up to be better to be a third liner, because he was blocked from the top two lines and needed to be "good in the corners" and whatnot like a third liner, it's organizational malpractice.

I'm warming to the idea that a lot of this is the Rangers' fault.
Im not sure he "bulked" up with the goal of becoming a heavier player. I know there was some speculation about that. I think its a natural thing for any young player to want to put on some weight because they will be competing against men. See Othmann this offseason.

I'm sure he's added muscle but if you look at his father he's a little bigger and it may just be the natural progression of his body type. A lot of things naturally happen from the age of 17/18-20/21.

However, to your point - he could definitely benefit in slimming down and working on speed and explosiveness - if he hasnt been

But I feel like a lot of this is secondary to losing confidence and that could be for a number of reasons
 
Three different coaches, two different GMs, same exact player. And I don't think it's fair to lump Kakko in with Lafreniere.
Yes exactly right- it's way more likely both Kappo and Laf are just not very good than it is to say the organization screwed both of them up.
 
Yes exactly right- it's way more likely both Kappo and Laf are just not very good than it is to say the organization screwed both of them up.
I actually think Kakko is poised to have a big year. The one who's actually shown improvement year to year.
 
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I actually think Kakko is poised to have a big year. The one who's actually shown improvement year to year.
yes but not surprisingly Kakko has shown improvement almost exclusively in defensive play and puck possession: ie. he's becoming a better and better checking line forward. He still flubs every shot and pass and his offense is as stagnant as Lafreniere. That's the point.
 
yes but not surprisingly Kakko has shown improvement almost exclusively in defensive play and puck possession: ie. he's becoming a better and better checking line forward. He still flubs every shot and pass and his offense is as stagnant as Lafreniere. That's the point.
I think he looks much better offensively than he did his first year here and he still generates offensive chances. He just doesn't shoot or shoots too late. If you want to say that's a product of something the Rangers are doing or did, maybe. I don't know if I agree but I have no proof one way or the other but you could be right. I will say though, Kakko looks like a legit NHL player. He's not afraid to try and make a play.
 
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Oh I totally agree, and you were right to point out that the same playbook was used for Kakko the year before. It was baffling to watch the Rangers just run the same process right back. It's even more baffling the amount of people who don't seem to see the obvious symmetry between Lafreniere and Kakko's careers so far. Continuing to harp that if they were Crosby or even MacKinnon tier talents then no team could ruin them doesn't change the fact that whatever potential they had was and largely continues to be blatantly depreciated by the organization.

Something is very rotten in NY with player development. They've developed one legitimate top-six player in the last decade and whiffed on 4 top-10 draft selections since starting their rebuild. I can write off Andersson and Kravtsov for being head cases to an extent, but Kakko and Laf were unanimous, sure-fire impact players.

Kakko dominated against men at the WC. The guy was so incredibly decisive with the puck on his stick that he could turn just about anything into a scoring opportunity. Now he looks lost in the NHL.

Laf was lauded as a Messier type. He wasn't a flashy player but was skilled, highly competitive, gritty, and was likely going to wear the C on his chest someday. Now he looks like he's counting the days until he gets traded.

I keep seeing people talking about MacKinnon, Crosby, etc. But look across the river. The Devils drafted first overall players who got off to slow starts but eventually grew into elite players because they were given the opportunity to do so. All the Rangers have done is put up road blocks for their forwards.
 
Now that fat shit Brooks has his opinion piece. Awesome. The bully mob mentality by the fan base and now the fat shit Brooks that never played but has platform to vomit his opinions is joining in the fun.

Laf had to change his IG profile to private. Im sure all this makes him feel great. Ready to take on and beat the world.

All sarcasm by the way.

This situation can get worse fast.

f***ing shame the organization, fans and media couldn't give a kid a chance to develop properly.
 
Something is very rotten in NY with player development. They've developed one legitimate top-six player in the last decade and whiffed on 4 top-10 draft selections since starting their rebuild. I can write off Andersson and Kravtsov for being head cases to an extent, but Kakko and Laf were unanimous, sure-fire impact players.

Kakko dominated against men at the WC. The guy was so incredibly decisive with the puck on his stick that he could turn just about anything into a scoring opportunity. Now he looks lost in the NHL.

Laf was lauded as a Messier type. He wasn't a flashy player but was skilled, highly competitive, gritty, and was likely going to wear the C on his chest someday. Now he looks like he's counting the days until he gets traded.

I keep seeing people talking about MacKinnon, Crosby, etc. But look across the river. The Devils drafted first overall players who got off to slow starts but eventually grew into elite players because they were given the opportunity to do so. All the Rangers have done is put up road blocks for their forwards.
This is where I disagree. Jack Hughes was always going to be Jack Hughes he just needed to fill out. If a guy is that good, they should be able to show it 3 years into the league, regardless of what line he's on or who he's playing with. People make it like Laff has been buried here. They've tried him everywhere. At what point do you look at the player and say, maybe it's on him?

Anderson and Kravtsov are out of the league, they were bad picks. Guys lost their job because of them. Chytil, Schneider, Miller, they all came through the same system, they're fine. Culyie and Othman are progressing. We can't blame everything on the team.
 
I absolutely believe that some young, especially successful, players/athletes may become complacent with the undoubtedly hard work they have put in to gain the level of success they have achieved, but sometime don't take that next step and actually work HARDER than they are used to, to gain success at a higher level of competition. There is almost ALWAYS another level of hard work that a young player can aspire to. And who knows, but maybe that's Laf. Maybe he believes he's working hard enough, but maybe what he really needs is for someone to demonstrate that he needs that next level. Again, like the rest of you, I have no idea how hard he does or doesn't work, but there's a fair bit of smoke...
Yeah I do not pretend to know how hard Laf worked this offseason. I just wish we had some reports like Laf came in to camp in great shape. His offseason workouts really made a difference. That does not mean he did not work hard. I just have no idea. You know how much I preached that an offseason worth of work can make a huge difference. I feel 75% of a players skills improvement can come from offseason work. I feel the other 20% comes in practice. I only feel around 5% comes from playing in actual games.
 
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I mean, how many HF posters have said he doesn't move his feet. He looks lazy. He's not hustling. His defense has gotten worse? What is he doing during the offseason? (Don't know. Maybe he trains his ass off. Maybe he doesn't.)

We've said it. Some choose not to listen. Maybe it's not work ethic and it's more processing the game. His take is piecing it together as work ethic. But it's still all there however you want to put it.
I'm probably as concerned as many people but I'm willing to give him a 40 game clean slate. If he gets the message and works his butt off in those 40 games than I will be happy and he will have my full support. The better Laf does the better we do. I still hold out hope. :)
 
I think he looks much better offensively than he did his first year here and he still generates offensive chances. He just doesn't shoot or shoots too late. If you want to say that's a product of something the Rangers are doing or did, maybe. I don't know if I agree but I have no proof one way or the other but you could be right. I will say though, Kakko looks like a legit NHL player. He's not afraid to try and make a play.

The main point is still very visible. Kakko is trying too hard, still after years gripping his stick too hard. He's fighting with everything he's got to keep his nose above the water with the Rangers. He's never once found the flow state he was in before the got to the Rangers, the flow state that Hughes found after being allowed to just play for some seasons. The NYR run a pretend meritocracy which in reality is an aristocracy fixated on a pretend blue collar work ethic. Every winger should be a Chris Kreider prototype, unless you are the skilled UFA (Breadman in the current order) brought in for big bucks.

The Devils built their team around how Hischier and Hughes play the game. Chicago will do the same with Berard. The NYR has it's template from before WWII and that's that and there's basically f*ck all any prospect can do to change that. If they are lucky they fit the template like Cuylle and Othmann do.
 
The more I read through this thread the more I feel like Switzerland.

I honestly believe its a little bit of both things going on, if we are trying to make sense of what the f*** is going on with this kid.

Have the Rangers contributed to screwing things up with Laf given his usage or lack thereof? Yes
Has Laf not taken enough initiative, forced himself up in the lineup and has lost his confidence? Yes
 
I remember he had a knee injury between juniors and NHL I think, I've always wondered if that slowed him down permanently. You're just left wondering, looking for reasons why things have panned out this way.
 
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The main point is still very visible. Kakko is trying too hard, still after years gripping his stick too hard. He's fighting with everything he's got to keep his nose above the water with the Rangers. He's never once found the flow state he was in before the got to the Rangers, the flow state that Hughes found after being allowed to just play for some seasons. The NYR run a pretend meritocracy which in reality is an aristocracy fixated on a pretend blue collar work ethic. Every winger should be a Chris Kreider prototype, unless you are the skilled UFA (Breadman in the current order) brought in for big bucks.

The Devils built their team around how Hischier and Hughes play the game. Chicago will do the same with Berard. The NYR has it's template from before WWII and that's that and there's basically f*ck all any prospect can do to change that. If they are lucky they fit the template like Cuylle and Othmann do.

How would you build a team around Laffreniere or even Kakko for that matter? What does that team look like? The Rangers have 6 wings in the top 9, I don't think there's one that resembles the other.
 
The main point is still very visible. Kakko is trying too hard, still after years gripping his stick too hard. He's fighting with everything he's got to keep his nose above the water with the Rangers. He's never once found the flow state he was in before the got to the Rangers, the flow state that Hughes found after being allowed to just play for some seasons. The NYR run a pretend meritocracy which in reality is an aristocracy fixated on a pretend blue collar work ethic. Every winger should be a Chris Kreider prototype, unless you are the skilled UFA (Breadman in the current order) brought in for big bucks.

The Devils built their team around how Hischier and Hughes play the game. Chicago will do the same with Berard. The NYR has it's template from before WWII and that's that and there's basically f*ck all any prospect can do to change that. If they are lucky they fit the template like Cuylle and Othmann do.
I agree with this, but there is a flipside:

If you are generational talent and a very special player like Fox/Bedard/Hughes - none of this seems to matter and you show who you are. The team has no other choice. To me this situation is a perfect shitstorm of events/timing that could only happen in a large market like NY.

But you are so right about the bolded.
 
He doesn't really move his feet and he rarely if ever tries a high degree of difficulty play. He's on the ice, not the coaches.

He's the one doing read and react as a slowish wnger instead of driving play.

3 coaches now and he still doesn't engage. He's just not that guy. At some point you blame the only person who's skates touch the ice y'all.

I remember he had a knee injury between juniors and NHL I think, I've always wondered if that slowed him down permanently. You're just left wondering, looking for reasons why things have panned out this way.
The best explanation is he's a read and react guy on a team full of other read and react guys so they all kinda glide around in their lane waiting for someone else to do something.
 
He doesn't really move his feet and he rarely if ever tries a high degree of difficulty play. He's on the ice, not the coaches.

He's the one doing read and react as a slowish wnger instead of driving play.

3 coaches now and he still doesn't engage. He's just not that guy. At some point you blame the only person who's skates touch the ice y'all.


The best explanation is he's a read and react guy on a team full of other read and react guys so they all kinda glide around in their lane waiting for someone else to do something.
The last point, is the reason we wanted a coach with a system, which takes time to implement.
Read and react goes away in a system
 
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I just read this in Brooks article. This is something to have some hope about.
Again. Lafreniere has not earned a top-six spot. He has seemed paralyzed. My best information is that the Rangers were pleased with his results on his testing on and off the ice. There is no indication that he was lazy over the summer. He had a decent first couple of days on the ice but it’s all been downhill since the first exhibition game in Boston on Sept. 24.
 
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The best explanation is he's a read and react guy on a team full of other read and react guys so they all kinda glide around in their lane waiting for someone else to do something.
this sums it up

but even guys like Kreider and to some extent Zibs, used to be hustlers/forecheckers. Now they became zombies too

The Walking Dead moniker would be appropriate

I've been bantering with you and arguing with @IDvsEGO . There's no way I would've had the time to pen this (very well done) article hanging around here. :sarcasm:
chatGPT please
 
I think he looks much better offensively than he did his first year here and he still generates offensive chances. He just doesn't shoot or shoots too late. If you want to say that's a product of something the Rangers are doing or did, maybe. I don't know if I agree but I have no proof one way or the other but you could be right. I will say though, Kakko looks like a legit NHL player. He's not afraid to try and make a play.
He's not afraid to try to make a play, in year 5, under coach 3, GM 2, etc. And he's still not proving immediately capable of making them--plays he could make with ease at 18. Kakko came in and was electric as an 18 year old in the preseason, specifically on PP1 on the flank. He has yet to play that position since the second month of his pro career. That's what we're pointing out, and it's the same story with Lafreniere, who it seems is less capable as a defensive forward, but likely a more capable finisher than Kakko at this point. The progress they have made, meager as it is, has been pretty consistently against the grain of circumstance and usage. Just look at Kakko's WC performance the last time he was there and this past year. He's stagnated here.
 
this sums it up

but even guys like Kreider and to some extent Zibs, used to be hustlers/forecheckers. Now they became zombies too

The Walking Dead moniker would be appropriate


chatGPT please

Speaking of chatGPT, we need that crew here to start ramping up the AI-generated poetry for our enjoyment for the new season.
 
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