24/25 Waivers/Rumors/TDL Thread.

[Snuggs]

Absolutely not. We have no use for an extra first rounder right now. If we are trading wallinder it needs to be for someone who can play on our roster this year.

You think Wallinder commands a roster player back?

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

You think Wallinder commands a roster player back?

By himself no but he’s close to being ready to play for a roster spot, whether that be for us or another team. So if we are moving him it’s better to be for an actual player rather than a pick. A pick might not ever turn out to being close to what wallinder even is right now, and wallinder fits our timeline a lot better. We don’t get better in anyway by trading him for a pick.

 

[jkutswings]

Would you trade Tarasenko 50% and Wallinder for Panthers 1st round pick?

For the sake of making a move? No.

If I could then package that pick to land a real player that fits the timeline? Sure.

 

[Henkka]

For the sake of making a move? No.

If I could then package that pick to land a real player that fits the timeline? Sure.

Something like Tarasenko + incentive <> Ristolainen would be ideal trade.

We don't maybe need Tarasenko anywhere (Motte or Fischer could jump in), but Ristolainen would be huge upgrade vs. Holl.

 

[Snuggs]

For the sake of making a move? No.

If I could then package that pick to land a real player that fits the timeline? Sure.

Isn't Wallinder just the cost of cap dumping Tarasenko and you get a 1st round pick too out of the deal?

By himself no but he’s close to being ready to play for a roster spot, whether that be for us or another team. So if we are moving him it’s better to be for an actual player rather than a pick. A pick might not ever turn out to being close to what wallinder even is right now, and wallinder fits our timeline a lot better. We don’t get better in anyway by trading him for a pick.

Wallinder isn't much now and like I'm saying above, isn't he just the cost in dump Tarasenko and the caveat is you walk away with a late first to do whatever you want with... (draft/trade/etc).

Unless you guys both think Tarasenko, himself will bring something, idk.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Isn't Wallinder just the cost of cap dumping Tarasenko and you get a 1st round pick too out of the deal?

Wallinder isn't much now and like I'm saying above, isn't he just the cost in dump Tarasenko and the caveat is you walk away with a late first to do whatever you want with... (draft/trade/etc).

We have no clue what wallinder is. People wrote off soderblom and here he is playing even better in the NHL than in Grand Rapids. The red wings scouts and development know a lot better what wallinder is, there’s a reason he was the first defenseman brought up in December even if he didn’t play. We have to stop writing prospects off, and even so, tarasenko isn’t going to need a B+ prospect to move, especially if we retain.

 

[Snuggs]

We have no clue what wallinder is. People wrote off soderblom and here he is playing even better in the NHL than in Grand Rapids. The red wings scouts and development know a lot better what wallinder is, there’s a reason he was the first defenseman brought up in December even if he didn’t play. We have to stop writing prospects off, and even so, tarasenko isn’t going to need a B+ prospect to move, especially if we retain.

That is true, Soderblom is being asked to do different things from the two teams but it's true. I wrote him off, and I watched alot of Grand Rapids but he got a more ice time, PP, etc, and looked not that great in Grand Rapids. As a pro he's done really well with bottom minutes using his size; not playing a ton of minutes but again, different role, no PP time either.

I don't mind the pick because I think Red Wings use in a future package. Idk if they'd do a deal like that and then walk into the draft with it honestly.

 

[schuelma24]

I'm not giving up on Wallinder - he still has a great toolkit and you can see the potential. But at a certain point, the Wings have to extract some value from some of their prospects because they're not all going to make it - especially now with Aljo looking legit.

 

[jkutswings]

Isn't Wallinder just the cost of cap dumping Tarasenko and you get a 1st round pick too out of the deal?

I don't care about Wallinder or Tarasenko or picks, except to spend them to land top half of the lineup players.

If I can get somebody to part with a player of that caliber, then I'm in. But if it's the usual trade deadline where only plugs are available, then stand pat and make a hockey trade in the summer.

 

[RRhoads]

Absolutely not. We have no use for an extra first rounder right now. If we are trading wallinder it needs to be for someone who can play on our roster this year.

We can use that first rounder to move up in the draft, or put in a package for a player. We don't have to keep it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Paying at least a first is where we are now. I am not saying it shoud be done, I am saying that it could have been done cheaper earlier in the season but our GM opted not to go after Fowler or Fabbro.

Yeah...I am not about to cry over our failure to acquire Cam Fowler and Dante Fabbro, neither of whom "fix our defense."

 

[redwingsfannn9191]

Absolutely not. We have no use for an extra first rounder right now. If we are trading wallinder it needs to be for someone who can play on our roster this year.

I would do it if it lead to another trade with a team that wanted a 1st. We get to keep our own 1st or make 2 separate deals or just a block buster with 2 picks attached

Gives Us possibilities. Course only do move if something is at play ...k'andre miller please ... rangers can then flip those assets for all I care

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

We can use that first rounder to move up in the draft, or put in a package for a player. We don't have to keep it.

We should not be discouraged from accumulating more marketable assets to move. Wallinder is not the player most around here think he is.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Yeah...I am not about to cry over our failure to acquire Cam Fowler and Dante Fabbro, neither of whom "fix our defense."

Either would most definitely upgrade our defense. Why even discuss improving our defense if you're going to disregard recent plausible trades that could have improved our defense?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Either would most definitely upgrade our defense. Why even discuss improving our defense if you're going to disregard recent plausible trades that could have improved our defense?

I am not looking to simply upgrade the defense. I am looking to upgrade the defense in a manner that helps us during our competitive window (which still hasn't even opened). There are clearly people on this board who just want the brass to improve the roster (no matter how small of an improvement) to help us make the playoffs this year, even if it means giving up good assets for older players. Again, Fowler is 33. He isn't getting better and will be out of the league before we can be expected to win a playoff series. I said the exact same thing when people were clamoring for ROR and Schenn. With the speed of the game today, it belongs to the young.

As someone else said earlier, I have no idea why people keep proposing that we get older at this point. We need to save our tradable assets for worthwhile acquisitions, not players in the twilight of their careers. Too many people have deal fever.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

The prospect pool is deep, I think we can afford to make a minor trade that upgrades defense depth. It shouldn't cost a first or maybe even second-round pick to replace injured Petry with someone better than Holl, even if it's an older player who won't be around in two years.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

As president of the William Wallinder fan club he better be moved for a lot better than what most people are doing here. If you want to package him with other things for a tangible upgrade, but to get rid of someone I think people are picking the wrong dude. I like Buium for those throwing things in that camp, but Wallinder has the NHL skating that we question with Buium. I think you're looking at another off-season and deciding which one fits. Now with that said if Wallinder is part of a package for Byram, Cozens, etc that I cannot really argue with even if I am a massive believer in him being a big smooth skating guy that eventually figures it out as a solid 4-6 guy.

I will say some of my most hopeful projections on him are blocked by better players so he will never see PP time. He still of all the internal options to me presents the best fit for that #4 role with the big boys, if people want to put Aljo there than Wallinder will carry the third pair, but I think it comes down to those two splitting 4/5 roles. So if you go get Byram I am more comfortable not really caring because that locks the top 4 a different way. But that presents different things money wise and distribution throughout the lineup. With the cap going up, I can see this even if the example in Byram is someone who has health issues that worry me a bunch.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

As president of the William Wallinder fan club he better be moved for a lot better than what most people are doing here. If you want to package him with other things for a tangible upgrade, but to get rid of someone I think people are picking the wrong dude. I like Buium for those throwing things in that camp, but Wallinder has the NHL skating that we question with Buium. I think you're looking at another off-season and deciding which one fits. Now with that said if Wallinder is part of a package for Byram, Cozens, etc that I cannot really argue with even if I am a massive believer in him being a big smooth skating guy that eventually figures it out as a solid 4-6 guy.

I will say some of my most hopeful projections on him are blocked by better players so he will never see PP time. He still of all the internal options to me presents the best fit for that #4 role with the big boys, if people want to put Aljo there than Wallinder will carry the third pair, but I think it comes down to those two splitting 4/5 roles. So if you go get Byram I am more comfortable not really caring because that locks the top 4 a different way. But that presents different things money wise and distribution throughout the lineup. With the cap going up, I can see this even if the example in Byram is someone who has health issues that worry me a bunch.

Internally they are probably hoping one of wallinder or buium develops further and is able to become seiders partner. I sincerely doubt they trade these guys unless it’s for a top forward or defenseman. You’re better off just keeping them and trusting your development team. They aren’t add ins.

 

[norrisnick]

I think "improving skating" is a bit more likely than "improving how to be a defenseman".

 

[jkutswings]

Internally they are probably hoping one of wallinder or buium develops further and is able to become seiders partner. I sincerely doubt they trade these guys unless it’s for a top forward or defenseman. You’re better off just keeping them and trusting your development team. They aren’t add ins.

I'd be surprised if either of those guys become reliable second pairing NHL players, let alone the right partner for Mo.

Detroit has out kicked their coverage on first round picks, which is fantastic. But a lot of people are now assuming that this good fortune will extend far enough to fill an entire roster with draft picks. The probability says otherwise.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think "improving skating" is a bit more likely than "improving how to be a defenseman".

Justin Holl would be a pretty big current example on why I disagree with this notion.

If you cannot skate at the NHL level in the modern era you are in deep trouble. You better have big gifts to go along with that deficiency. I actually think Buium could do this, most guys gain decent amounts in skating in their early 20s.

Also playing over 20 minutes a game and continuing to get better is not improving as a defenseman? hmm...

I am curious in seeing both next year if we are not adding a piece that is worth while when throwing one of them in.

 

[norrisnick]

Justin Holl would be a pretty big current example on why I disagree with this notion.

If you cannot skate at the NHL level in the modern era you are in deep trouble. You better have big gifts to go along with that deficiency. I actually think Buium could do this, most guys gain decent amounts in skating in their early 20s.

Also playing over 20 minutes a game and continuing to get better is not improving as a defenseman? hmm...

I am curious in seeing both next year if we are not adding a piece that is worth while when throwing one of them in.

Skating is the least of Holl's issues. He's a better example of the "improving how to be a defenseman" part.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Skating is the least of Holl's issues. He's a better example of the "improving how to be a defenseman" part.

He got by as a Dman in the league until he couldn't turn or recover as well. His acceleration and ability to pivot in terms of four way mobility is what caused his game to fall off in my opinion. He has some straight line speed once he gets going, most guys do.

 

[norrisnick]

He got by as a Dman in the league until he couldn't turn or recover as well. His acceleration and ability to pivot in terms of four way mobility is what caused his game to fall off in my opinion. He has some straight line speed once he gets going, most guys do.

He's making poor decisions and taking bad lines to execute said decisions. Less mobile players than Holl have been good defensively.

I will lean towards a guy that can do things with what he's capable of, rather than a guy that has great tools but does little with them.

 

[Geezer WC]

We should only be trading for impact players 28 and younger. If we are trading for someone older we should absolutely not be using a 1st round pick to do so. I don’t really see the need to trade for someone like Luke Schenn who isn’t a ton better than holl, unless holl was going the other way. That’s just rearranging chairs on the titanic.

Schenn and Holl play a different game. I know who I would rather have down the stretch and hopefully into the first round if it cost us say a 3rd.

2024-2025 Hits, Blocks, Fights.

Schenn 200 69 5


Holl 25 51 0