Confirmed with Link: Alexis Lafreniere Signs Extension [7Y/7.45M AAV]

[B17 Apricots]

Long post... we're probably gonna keep talking in circles about these guys like last year.

Just for context. The best players on the planet only grab about ~60 points at 5v5. Out of every single top 6 player in the league, every 1st line center, every 1st line winger... less than 20 forwards actually had 50 or more 5v5 points last year. These are names like Panarin, Kucherov, Crosby, etc.. superstars. When you get into the 40s, Kyle Connor, Stamkos, Bratt, Kyrou... and on and on. There's some names that might surprise you. You get to the 30s, you have Tavares, JT Miller, Larkin... a number of other star players, all the top 6 guys you can think of... theres top 6 players who played a full season that finished in the 20s. Kreider, Boldy, Danault and Perron finished with 27 5v5 points, these are +50-60 point players! Large portions of players get almost half their production from the powerplay.

Here's our guys...

Chytil had 35 5v5 points in 74 games. The same as Robert Thomas, Nečas, E. Lindholm... these are +60 point guys that are putting up +20 PP points.
Kakko had 32 5v5 points, the same as Larkin.. more than Miller and Debrincat. These guys are putting up +30 points on the PP. Larkin and JT were ~80 point players last year and only had ~30 5v5 points.
Lafrenière had 29 5v5 points, the same as Reinhart and Batherson... again, +60 point players. 1 more than Kreider's group I mentioned above.

Now I'm not saying that any of our guys are better or worse than any of those players, but I am trying to paint a realistic picture of what the numbers really look like. Of course in those ranges, there's also some solid middle 6 players and even some limited 3rd line players. But it does say something that even bona-fide stars are only putting up ~30 5v5 points.

The powerplay is a huge factor in production. Our powerplay is electric. As long as it stays that way there's zero reason to include anyone else. One issue I saw with Gallant is there were times where our first unit would have short stretches where they couldn't do shit. You don't need to mess with the unit, don't let them eat a minute and a half if they can't get something going. Get that 2nd unit on. Give the PKers different faces/looks. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a priority but that's one area where Laviolette can find a bit of extra time here and there for the other players. Wheeler as well, he could still be a weapon on the PP.

Bit of a side point, but to get back to it... last year our young guys produced at worst, in line with a number of middle 6 players and at best a number of legitimate stars. Think it's fair to say they're right in line with your run of the mill top 6 player. They are not prominent features on the powerplay, they do not have the opportunity to put up 15-30 points on the PP. The people who are hoping to see these kids put up 50, 60, 70 points.. its incredibly unlikely unless they get a larger role on the powerplay.

And if you need further proof look no further than our own team right now. Kreider and Zibanejad are only a point or 2 below a point per game and somehow only have a point or 2 at 5v5!

 

[bhamill]

Long post... we're probably gonna keep talking in circles about these guys like last year.

Just for context. The best players on the planet only grab about ~60 points at 5v5. Out of every single top 6 player in the league, every 1st line center, every 1st line winger... less than 20 forwards actually had 50 or more 5v5 points last year. These are names like Panarin, Kucherov, Crosby, etc.. superstars. When you get into the 40s, Kyle Connor, Stamkos, Bratt, Kyrou... and on and on. There's some names that might surprise you. You get to the 30s, you have Tavares, JT Miller, Larkin... a number of other star players, all the top 6 guys you can think of... theres top 6 players who played a full season that finished in the 20s. Kreider, Boldy, Danault and Perron finished with 27 5v5 points, these are +50-60 point players! Large portions of players get almost half their production from the powerplay.

Here's our guys...

Chytil had 35 5v5 points in 74 games. The same as Robert Thomas, Nečas, E. Lindholm... these are +60 point guys that are putting up +20 PP points.
Kakko had 32 5v5 points, the same as Larkin.. more than Miller and Debrincat. These guys are putting up +30 points on the PP. Larkin and JT were ~80 point players last year and only had ~30 5v5 points.
Lafrenière had 29 5v5 points, the same as Reinhart and Batherson... again, +60 point players. 1 more than Kreider's group I mentioned above.

Now I'm not saying that any of our guys are better or worse than any of those players, but I am trying to paint a realistic picture of what the numbers really look like. Of course in those ranges, there's also some solid middle 6 players and even some limited 3rd line players. But it does say something that even bona-fide stars are only putting up ~30 5v5 points.

The powerplay is a huge factor in production. Our powerplay is electric. As long as it stays that way there's zero reason to include anyone else. One issue I saw with Gallant is there were times where our first unit would have short stretches where they couldn't do shit. You don't need to mess with the unit, don't let them eat a minute and a half if they can't get something going. Get that 2nd unit on. Give the PKers different faces/looks. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a priority but that's one area where Laviolette can find a bit of extra time here and there for the other players. Wheeler as well, he could still be a weapon on the PP.

Bit of a side point, but to get back to it... last year our young guys produced at worst, in line with a number of middle 6 players and at best a number of legitimate stars. Think it's fair to say they're right in line with your run of the mill top 6 player. They are not prominent features on the powerplay, they do not have the opportunity to put up 15-30 points on the PP. The people who are hoping to see these kids put up 50, 60, 70 points.. its incredibly unlikely unless they get a larger role on the powerplay.

And if you need further proof look no further than our own team right now. Kreider and Zibanejad are only a point or 2 below a point per game and somehow only have a point or 2 at 5v5!

whoa whoa whoa… lets not get carried away with logic and reasonable expectations!

 

[2014nyr]

whoa whoa whoa… lets not get carried away with logic and reasonable expectations!

took the words out of my mouth.

i'm not sure how much more there is in chytil and i'm not sure he'll ever be a pp pt producer. i mean maybe in the perfect situation personnel and role wise he could have success in a niche...but he's not really good in the o zone with possession. brain just stops operating as soon as the entry play is over. yes he makes the occasional good quick play like on the laf goal in seattle and he's had moments of competence...but big picture there's just not a ton there with him. he's afraid of contact so he's not useful getting possession of pucks, he's easy to knock off the puck, he doesn't have great awareness, and he's slow getting shots off in tight spaces. there's a lot of things to like about what he brings, and maybe lavi will pull some more competitiveness out of him, but right now he's almost purely a rush/transition producer who's impact game to game has a terribly wide range. the fact that he gets hurt every 10 minutes is about as bad as his willingness to engage physically on pucks though, which really sucks.

i'm far higher on laf/kakko. laf has looked really good so far this year, he and panarin are reading off each other very well. there's more there though and i'd like to see him generating more chances to and do that consistently, esp on his pp time. expect to see some games this year where he's just a monster all night generating offense, seattle was close, he's had stretches of games where that was happening. next step is having a big night with like 3-4 pts and hammering a couple guys to boot.

the kakko mika kreider line seems to have like no coordination in the nz or oz, which will need to be sorted. it's like none have them have any idea what the others are doing to even find outlets, nevermind create actual chances. mika's been a slow starter offensively tho and tends to take time building chemistry with linemates while kreider doesn't bring much offensively at 5 on 5 anyway, so i don't think it's fair to make much of kakkos totals so far. i expect him to get hot at some point and that line to figure out how they can be at least effective so the onus isn't on panarin's line to lead the charge offensively every single night.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Long post... we're probably gonna keep talking in circles about these guys like last year.

Just for context. The best players on the planet only grab about ~60 points at 5v5. Out of every single top 6 player in the league, every 1st line center, every 1st line winger... less than 20 forwards actually had 50 or more 5v5 points last year. These are names like Panarin, Kucherov, Crosby, etc.. superstars. When you get into the 40s, Kyle Connor, Stamkos, Bratt, Kyrou... and on and on. There's some names that might surprise you. You get to the 30s, you have Tavares, JT Miller, Larkin... a number of other star players, all the top 6 guys you can think of... theres top 6 players who played a full season that finished in the 20s. Kreider, Boldy, Danault and Perron finished with 27 5v5 points, these are +50-60 point players! Large portions of players get almost half their production from the powerplay.

Here's our guys...

Chytil had 35 5v5 points in 74 games. The same as Robert Thomas, Nečas, E. Lindholm... these are +60 point guys that are putting up +20 PP points.
Kakko had 32 5v5 points, the same as Larkin.. more than Miller and Debrincat. These guys are putting up +30 points on the PP. Larkin and JT were ~80 point players last year and only had ~30 5v5 points.
Lafrenière had 29 5v5 points, the same as Reinhart and Batherson... again, +60 point players. 1 more than Kreider's group I mentioned above.

Now I'm not saying that any of our guys are better or worse than any of those players, but I am trying to paint a realistic picture of what the numbers really look like. Of course in those ranges, there's also some solid middle 6 players and even some limited 3rd line players. But it does say something that even bona-fide stars are only putting up ~30 5v5 points.

The powerplay is a huge factor in production. Our powerplay is electric. As long as it stays that way there's zero reason to include anyone else. One issue I saw with Gallant is there were times where our first unit would have short stretches where they couldn't do shit. You don't need to mess with the unit, don't let them eat a minute and a half if they can't get something going. Get that 2nd unit on. Give the PKers different faces/looks. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a priority but that's one area where Laviolette can find a bit of extra time here and there for the other players. Wheeler as well, he could still be a weapon on the PP.

Bit of a side point, but to get back to it... last year our young guys produced at worst, in line with a number of middle 6 players and at best a number of legitimate stars. Think it's fair to say they're right in line with your run of the mill top 6 player. They are not prominent features on the powerplay, they do not have the opportunity to put up 15-30 points on the PP. The people who are hoping to see these kids put up 50, 60, 70 points.. its incredibly unlikely unless they get a larger role on the powerplay.

And if you need further proof look no further than our own team right now. Kreider and Zibanejad are only a point or 2 below a point per game and somehow only have a point or 2 at 5v5!

Yes. 100%. Great post.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

took the words out of my mouth.

i'm not sure how much more there is in chytil and i'm not sure he'll ever be a pp pt producer. i mean maybe in the perfect situation personnel and role wise he could have success in a niche...but he's not really good in the o zone with possession. brain just stops operating as soon as the entry play is over. yes he makes the occasional good quick play like on the laf goal in seattle and he's had moments of competence...but big picture there's just not a ton there with him. he's afraid of contact so he's not useful getting possession of pucks, he's easy to knock off the puck, he doesn't have great awareness, and he's slow getting shots off in tight spaces. there's a lot of things to like about what he brings, and maybe lavi will pull some more competitiveness out of him, but right now he's almost purely a rush/transition producer who's impact game to game has a terribly wide range. the fact that he gets hurt every 10 minutes is about as bad as his willingness to engage physically on pucks though, which really sucks.

i'm far higher on laf/kakko. laf has looked really good so far this year, he and panarin are reading off each other very well. there's more there though and i'd like to see him generating more chances to and do that consistently, esp on his pp time. expect to see some games this year where he's just a monster all night generating offense, seattle was close, he's had stretches of games where that was happening. next step is having a big night with like 3-4 pts and hammering a couple guys to boot.

the kakko mika kreider line seems to have like no coordination in the nz or oz, which will need to be sorted. it's like none have them have any idea what the others are doing to even find outlets, nevermind create actual chances. mika's been a slow starter offensively tho and tends to take time building chemistry with linemates while kreider doesn't bring much offensively at 5 on 5 anyway, so i don't think it's fair to make much of kakkos totals so far. i expect him to get hot at some point and that line to figure out how they can be at least effective so the onus isn't on panarin's line to lead the charge offensively every single night.

Disagree on Chytil. He’s going to be a really good player if he can just stay healthy. He is prone to brain dead plays here and there. But I feel like too many people expect every player to be good at every part of the game. Is it really a bad thing if one of our centers excels off the rush? You need players who excel at different areas of the game so you’re not predictable.

Agree on Laf. He’s been excellent this year. He should about 5-6 more assists easily.

Kakko looks completely lost out there. Forget his linemates. He’s playing with two of our best players. Now we’re blaming them. I have high hopes for him, he clearly is a hard worker, but he looks absolutely terrified to carry the puck and make a play. His confidence has to be as close to 0% as possible right now. Too many games without impact - 0 G 0 A +0 0 hits 0 blocks 0 takeaways 0 giveaways 0 PIM. What is he even doing out there? He’s just existing right now. Hopefully he can score a big goal and turn his confidence around

 

[NickyFotiu]

Panerin as a NYR has been around 60-70 even strength points a year per 82. That is Laf and Chytil's linemate. We should set the bar high for Laf and Chytil to reach. Saying 25-35 even strength points is okay is not going to help Laf, KK, or Chytil much.

Also just because guys play equal amounts on the PP does not mean they will produce equal results. Not even close. Some guys are great PP players. Some are not.

I personally do not care that much about point stats at this point in time for Laf. I would like to see Laf increase his shooting though. I feel good offensive players hit the net not always expecting to score but knowing that shots on net often lead to good results. If Laf starts hitting the net more consistently I think people will be happy.

 

[ReddestRum]

I like how people are like, "Great post!" , "Such logic" , "100%!!" at B17's post (and not to take anything away from it), but I'm still not going to say that our guys produced anywhere near superstar level at all, even with their even strength points being bottom 6 players previous seasons. Sorry, not sorry.

Why does it feel like we're the only fanbase with 2 high young picks where we are wishing our kids get thrown on PP1 just for the sake of it and to conflate their points because they'll magically get touches while Fox and Panarin do the work. Are we sure they even produce if we just blindly throw them on there?

I'm asking this because we have taken our kids from bottom 6 to top 6 and top 3, integrated them with the vets and the only thing keeping this team afloat and going right now are the vets on PP1. This is exactly what I've been saying when it comes to the kids and having been playing against bottom 6 talent. They should be scoring and lighting it up against bottom 6 considering the talent that's supposed to be there.

Now that they've all been promoted, we're barely seeing any production because the competition is that much harder to play against in top 6/top 3. I'm sure the new system and chemistry is playing a very large part of it, but if we can't find a way to get the kids going while they're in the top 6, then we're going to be in trouble, nevermind trying to force any of them onto the one special teams that's actually putting points on the board.

 

[bhamill]

I like how people are like, "Great post!" , "Such logic" , "100%!!" at B17's post (and not to take anything away from it), but I'm still not going to say that our guys produced anywhere near superstar level at all, even with their even strength points being bottom 6 players previous seasons. Sorry, not sorry.

Why does it feel like we're the only fanbase with 2 high young picks where we are wishing our kids get thrown on PP1 just for the sake of it and to conflate their points because they'll magically get touches while Fox and Panarin do the work. Are we sure they even produce if we just blindly throw them on there?

I'm asking this because we have taken our kids from bottom 6 to top 6 and top 3, integrated them with the vets and the only thing keeping this team afloat and going right now are the vets on PP1. This is exactly what I've been saying when it comes to the kids and having been playing against bottom 6 talent. They should be scoring and lighting it up against bottom 6 considering the talent that's supposed to be there.

Now that they've all been promoted, we're barely seeing any production because the competition is that much harder to play against in top 6/top 3. I'm sure the new system and chemistry is playing a very large part of it, but if we can't find a way to get the kids going while they're in the top 6, then we're going to be in trouble, nevermind trying to force any of them onto the one special teams that's actually putting points on the board.

My take has always been that getting PP1, top line minutes and other real responsibility is something that SPEEDS development. I dont care about “incidental points” except for the effect they can have on confidence, and confidence is a huge thing for a talented young player. But I also understand why that didn’t happen with Laf and Kakko: we are a team in a position to try to win. And it’s the reason we are the only fan base with two top picks we want to see on PP1… most top picks are put there from the get go because they go to bottom feeder teams.
PP2 is getting “longer short shifts” than last year, that’s a positive, and hopefully as we are up in the standings and ahead in games they will get more priority. Development and winning can be a real balancing act, and I think Lavi et al have a better grasp on this than the last two coaching staffs, who seemed to have none.

 

[ORRFForever]

I am always relieved when he gets a point.

1A tonight.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Laf is skating. Something changed in training camp. Happy to see it.

 

[mas0764]

I like how people are like, "Great post!" , "Such logic" , "100%!!" at B17's post (and not to take anything away from it), but I'm still not going to say that our guys produced anywhere near superstar level at all, even with their even strength points being bottom 6 players previous seasons. Sorry, not sorry.

Why does it feel like we're the only fanbase with 2 high young picks where we are wishing our kids get thrown on PP1 just for the sake of it and to conflate their points because they'll magically get touches while Fox and Panarin do the work. Are we sure they even produce if we just blindly throw them on there?

I'm asking this because we have taken our kids from bottom 6 to top 6 and top 3, integrated them with the vets and the only thing keeping this team afloat and going right now are the vets on PP1. This is exactly what I've been saying when it comes to the kids and having been playing against bottom 6 talent. They should be scoring and lighting it up against bottom 6 considering the talent that's supposed to be there.

Now that they've all been promoted, we're barely seeing any production because the competition is that much harder to play against in top 6/top 3. I'm sure the new system and chemistry is playing a very large part of it, but if we can't find a way to get the kids going while they're in the top 6, then we're going to be in trouble, nevermind trying to force any of them onto the one special teams that's actually putting points on the board.

Lafreniere is at half a point per game with no PP time. Not sure what else he should be doing.

Kakko, yeah, he’s ice cold.

 

[LORDE]

I am always relieved when he gets a point.

1A tonight.

Overall VERY good game from him... point or not.

I love it.

Keep moving those legs... keep trying shit. That dangle @ the blue line was sweet.

Keep shooting.

Do that hockey

 

[Mac n Gs]

The effort that led to his assist was far and few between last year: held his own in the initial puck battle 2v1 to keep it below the goal line, makes the defensive play to get a takeaway from Maata, and makes the pass to Panarin with Maata pressuring him from behind. Great read by Panarin to jump into the slot and make himself available for the pass.

Just a great play all around.

 

[ORRFForever]

Lafreniere is at half a point per game with no PP time. Not sure what else he should be doing.

Kakko, yeah, he’s ice cold.

Agree. There are so many players who pad their stats on the PP - if you're not getting that time, it makes all the difference in the world.

For some reason, I thought he had 5 goals.

 

[duhmetreE]

Laf is skating. Something changed in training camp. Happy to see it.

pretty sure it was his beard

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't care about the stats at this point. I thought in his second year he gave 70% effort in the second half of that season. Last season I felt he dropped to 50% effort. Now he is playing at 80% effort. Still can raise it yet another level but the progress is really nice to see.

 

[bhamill]

I don't care about the stats at this point. I thought in his second year he gave 70% effort in the second half of that season. Last season I felt he dropped to 50% effort. Now he is playing at 80% effort. Still can raise it yet another level but the progress is really nice to see.

Personally I would substitute the word “confidence” for “effort.” For me that’s the biggest thing. He also seems to be getting his man strength which should help with his confidence as well.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He's arguably our second best forward 5 on 5. Is that an exaggeration?

 

[Rangers in 7]

I like how people are like, "Great post!" , "Such logic" , "100%!!" at B17's post (and not to take anything away from it), but I'm still not going to say that our guys produced anywhere near superstar level at all, even with their even strength points being bottom 6 players previous seasons. Sorry, not sorry.

Why does it feel like we're the only fanbase with 2 high young picks where we are wishing our kids get thrown on PP1 just for the sake of it and to conflate their points because they'll magically get touches while Fox and Panarin do the work. Are we sure they even produce if we just blindly throw them on there?

I'm asking this because we have taken our kids from bottom 6 to top 6 and top 3, integrated them with the vets and the only thing keeping this team afloat and going right now are the vets on PP1. This is exactly what I've been saying when it comes to the kids and having been playing against bottom 6 talent. They should be scoring and lighting it up against bottom 6 considering the talent that's supposed to be there.

Now that they've all been promoted, we're barely seeing any production because the competition is that much harder to play against in top 6/top 3. I'm sure the new system and chemistry is playing a very large part of it, but if we can't find a way to get the kids going while they're in the top 6, then we're going to be in trouble, nevermind trying to force any of them onto the one special teams that's actually putting points on the board.

You completely missed the point of the post.

Most people on this board, including you, have called laf a bust for not putting up points. His post was saying that it’s almost physically impossible to put up 50 or more points with zero PP time.

 

[mrmovies779]

He's arguably our second best forward 5 on 5. Is that an exaggeration?

No.After Panarin he's been the most consistent foward at even strength

 

[ORRFForever]

He's arguably our second best forward 5 on 5. Is that an exaggeration?

So many players feast on the PP. One PPG players (on a Canadian team) has half his points on the PP and a few more 3 on 3 in O.T.. 5 on 5 he's invisible but the PP points hide his short comings.

Hard to compare players who get PP time and those who do not.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Personally I would substitute the word “confidence” for “effort.” For me that’s the biggest thing. He also seems to be getting his man strength which should help with his confidence as well.

Confidence and strength helps but the effort is dialed up. He didn't skate like this last season or even early in the preseason. The effort has increased so far.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Long post... we're probably gonna keep talking in circles about these guys like last year.

Just for context. The best players on the planet only grab about ~60 points at 5v5. Out of every single top 6 player in the league, every 1st line center, every 1st line winger... less than 20 forwards actually had 50 or more 5v5 points last year. These are names like Panarin, Kucherov, Crosby, etc.. superstars. When you get into the 40s, Kyle Connor, Stamkos, Bratt, Kyrou... and on and on. There's some names that might surprise you. You get to the 30s, you have Tavares, JT Miller, Larkin... a number of other star players, all the top 6 guys you can think of... theres top 6 players who played a full season that finished in the 20s. Kreider, Boldy, Danault and Perron finished with 27 5v5 points, these are +50-60 point players! Large portions of players get almost half their production from the powerplay.

Here's our guys...

Chytil had 35 5v5 points in 74 games. The same as Robert Thomas, Nečas, E. Lindholm... these are +60 point guys that are putting up +20 PP points.
Kakko had 32 5v5 points, the same as Larkin.. more than Miller and Debrincat. These guys are putting up +30 points on the PP. Larkin and JT were ~80 point players last year and only had ~30 5v5 points.
Lafrenière had 29 5v5 points, the same as Reinhart and Batherson... again, +60 point players. 1 more than Kreider's group I mentioned above.

Now I'm not saying that any of our guys are better or worse than any of those players, but I am trying to paint a realistic picture of what the numbers really look like. Of course in those ranges, there's also some solid middle 6 players and even some limited 3rd line players. But it does say something that even bona-fide stars are only putting up ~30 5v5 points.

The powerplay is a huge factor in production. Our powerplay is electric. As long as it stays that way there's zero reason to include anyone else. One issue I saw with Gallant is there were times where our first unit would have short stretches where they couldn't do shit. You don't need to mess with the unit, don't let them eat a minute and a half if they can't get something going. Get that 2nd unit on. Give the PKers different faces/looks. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a priority but that's one area where Laviolette can find a bit of extra time here and there for the other players. Wheeler as well, he could still be a weapon on the PP.

Bit of a side point, but to get back to it... last year our young guys produced at worst, in line with a number of middle 6 players and at best a number of legitimate stars. Think it's fair to say they're right in line with your run of the mill top 6 player. They are not prominent features on the powerplay, they do not have the opportunity to put up 15-30 points on the PP. The people who are hoping to see these kids put up 50, 60, 70 points.. its incredibly unlikely unless they get a larger role on the powerplay.

And if you need further proof look no further than our own team right now. Kreider and Zibanejad are only a point or 2 below a point per game and somehow only have a point or 2 at 5v5!

Get out of here with your facts and perspective. These threads are for mindlessly repeating that Laf is invisible and Kakko needs to stop facing the boards and be Rick nash

 

[bhamill]

Confidence and strength helps but the effort is dialed up. He didn't skate like this last season or even early in the preseason. The effort has increased so far.

Fair enough, but when you have no confidence and are trying very hard not to make mistakes it can look an awful lot like you ARENT trying…

 

[McRanger92]

Id love to know the real reason Quinn and Gallant refused to play Lafreniere with Panarin for so long. Saying Panarin didnt want to play with him (or any of the kids) sounds like a convenient excuse. Same goes for the RW bs because hes been more than fine on that side. Laf is a much more confident player and theres real chemistry between them. Better late than never.