Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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He's just so frustrating, every game you look at him and think that he could have popped two goals and instead you look at the score sheet and there's nothing there, again. And stupid shit like in the last game when he had the puck in the corner and he looked up at the point and then still passed it there even though both defensemen were at the bench changing.
This is part of the process... but instead of getting the time to figure things out last year, he was getting bottom6 time.

He is extremely snakebit. From his setups to Fox blocking a clear goal with his back. At the least we're starting to see signs... and IMO he's by far the most engaged top6 forward. He also has been playing very well defensively, in reading/breaking up plays.

He's coming along, in spite of this org being so bad with developing forwards.
 
This is part of the process... but instead of getting the time to figure things out last year, he was getting bottom6 time.

He is extremely snakebit. From his setups to Fox blocking a clear goal with his back. At the least we're starting to see signs... and IMO he's by far the most engaged top6 forward. He also has been playing very well defensively, in reading/breaking up plays.

He's coming along, in spite of this org being so bad with developing forwards.
I understand the process just fine, but I maintain that one of my biggest issues with him is that you just don't see pure skill from him. Like I see a kid with a great attitude, a great teammate, a guy that has some vision from time to time, but not really a kid that has that snipers touch around the net to normally get the puck bar down to finish a playoff, not really a kid that can go in and dangle the goalie and make that deke play (same to me said for KK). Usually what I expect to see from an elite prospect is a kid that struggles with transition, defensive zone coverage, and board battles but he still maintains that flash of skill that makes you remember just what sitting inside of him. I see all the struggles but I don't see this flash to skill. It may be sadly I get even more discouraged when I watch him on shootout attempts now as well because it just looks like goodrow It's going in and making that soft move with a weak shot instead of our first overall pick. I still have a lot of faith in him, but I just want to see some skill come out of him
 
I understand the process just fine, but I maintain that one of my biggest issues with him is that you just don't see pure skill from him. Like I see a kid with a great attitude, a great teammate, a guy that has some vision from time to time, but not really a kid that has that snipers touch around the net to normally get the puck bar down to finish a playoff, not really a kid that can go in and dangle the goalie and make that deke play (same to me said for KK). Usually what I expect to see from an elite prospect is a kid that struggles with transition, defensive zone coverage, and board battles but he still maintains that flash of skill that makes you remember just what sitting inside of him. I see all the struggles but I don't see this flash to skill. It may be sadly I get even more discouraged when I watch him on shootout attempts now as well because it just looks like goodrow It's going in and making that soft move with a weak shot instead of our first overall pick. I still have a lot of faith in him, but I just want to see some skill come out of him
I don't think he's that type of player though. More in the style of Draisaitl. It's not flashy... but I disagree I think he's been a good finisher. He's been setting up a lot of plays as of late which is encouraging. He's not a finished product by any means.

IMO he does need to work on stickhandling at speed. Agility/Balance. The kid is determined so I have no reason to doubt that he will continue to improve.
 
I don't think he's that type of player though. More in the style of Draisaitl. It's not flashy... but I disagree I think he's been a good finisher. He's been setting up a lot of plays as of late which is encouraging. He's not a finished product by any means.

IMO he does need to work on stickhandling at speed. Agility/Balance. The kid is determined so I have no reason to doubt that he will continue to improve.
Like I said I fully understand the process and I understand he's not a finished product, I think his body's actually more physically immature than most people think because his neck is a size of a watermelon. I totally appreciate that he's not a super slick player, but you'd still like to see a player like him have times where he can show it like shoot out at times. I know that there have been fantastic players throughout the years that suck it shoot out and other things, but I just like to see instances that really demonstrate an elite skill level, I just feel like we haven't seen that very often at all.
 
Like I said I fully understand the process and I understand he's not a finished product, I think his body's actually more physically immature than most people think because his neck is a size of a watermelon. I totally appreciate that he's not a super slick player, but you'd still like to see a player like him have times where he can show it like shoot out at times. I know that there have been fantastic players throughout the years that suck it shoot out and other things, but I just like to see instances that really demonstrate an elite skill level, I just feel like we haven't seen that very often at all.
and we haven't seen it. We've been horrendous at 5v5. He's been playing with underachieving players in limited time. We're starting to see it slightly now in a top6 role. His hands are much better than he has shown. I dont know if it's confidence/over thinking things but nothing really looked natural until the past couple games.
 
I think he can best be compared to Huberdeau, in ability, style and the amount of time it will take him to mature into his potential. All though Laf has a better scoring touch than Hubs.

Scoring goals is great. So important obviously. But where is the playmaking that was touted and that he showed in Jrs? I know he doesn't skate like or play like Kreider, but I don't think we need another unbalanced goal scoring specialist who doesn't do a whole lot else offensively. With his skillset, he should be racking up assists too, or at least, based on the skills he showed when he was younger and what he was touted as. Maybe they will come. Again, his goal scoring is great, but he needs to show some creativity. He may even have more goals than most players in his cumulative ice time, but the points in totality need to increase.

A couple of other things. I don't think his speed is quite average, I think a little below. Not quite Dylan Strome slow, but on the slowish side. And his skating was touted as excellent and it's not the worst. But I honestly think spending an offseason with a skating guru, like Bo Horvat did, would do wonders for him and his overall game. If he could truly improve and become a more skilled overall skater, the speed wont be an issue, or at least less of an issue.

Another thing I think people overlooked heading into his draft year, he was a big and mature kid for his age. Big and mature for at least a few seasons, while those he played against were still smaller and maturing. This gave him a big edge in Jr level, which doesn't translate to the NHL, where he's pretty average size and strength. He will get strong but he will never have that big edge he had over other kids his age. And that alone is going to mean a big adjustment, which I think we are seeing. He can't just move guys out of the way like he was able to and he gets moved more than he used to against smaller opponents.

Plus, his game will obviously have to be in the mold of skilled power forward and power forwards sometimes take longer to mature usually, Some times many years more. I am thinking of like Morrow, Puljujarvi and various others. Not every power guy can come into the league like Brady Tkachuk say and just plow grown men over. Plus, that's not quite Laf's game he's more subtle despite being relatively strong. So he will have to learn to combine those two areas which isn't easy in the NHL. A player like him might honestly not totally mature until like 23, 24.

Lawson Crouse might be a good example. While not nearly as skilled as Laf and not nearly the player, and certainly even more of a "power game", finally at 24 this year, he's looking improved offensively, like he's piecing it together. Not suggesting Crouse has near the ceiling of Laf ,or that Laf should, but just an example of bigger guys taking longer to put all the pieces together. And perhaps learning how to use his power where he doesn't have the same size and skill advantages he did when he was younger. But he will need to, because while he is super skilled, he's not a super skater or super speedy, so he will need to make contact or use his body in order to create space in order to use that high end stick skill rather than skating around guys.

As far as comps, I see a lot of similarities with Huberdeau. Huberdeau, who might not have Laf's scoring touch, but in overall play, size and style, I think they are very similar. And I think Laf could eventually be the playmaker Huberdeau is with more scoring touch. Or at least, that's what I would say is his potential. And it certainly took Huberdeau many years to become the player he is now. I think they could have a very similar career path. Which means, it's still going to be a few years possibly before Laf can put it all together. But that's the best comp I see when I watch Laf play at least. And if he did turn into a Huberdeau type player, well, I think everyone would be happy in the long run. Patience though is required.
 
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and we haven't seen it. We've been horrendous at 5v5. He's been playing with underachieving players in limited time. We're starting to see it slightly now in a top6 role. His hands are much better than he has shown. I dont know if it's confidence/over thinking things but nothing really looked natural until the past couple games.
I think we see two different things. I see a kid that doesn't have to do as much on the ice right now because he's on the ice of better players that takes some pressure off of him, but I also see a kid that when he gets the puck in a lot of spots is just making all kinds of mistakes he keeps trying to force things. I think a lot of that still comes down to what I perceived to be at best average skating and the struggle of trying to keep up with better and faster players. He still struggles horrifically getting the puck through the neutral zone and in the offensive zone he's very predictable as far as what he's going to do when he has the puck. Like I said, I'm just looking to see that kind of spark of elite skill that I don't think he shown very much at all. I'm not giving up on him in any way, I'm just waiting. I've said all season that next year is the year that I think he really starts to show what he can be in the future and this season is just another growth year. I just want to see some sparks of elite skill out of him though
 
I think he can best be compared to Huberdeau, in ability, style and the amount of time it will take him to mature into his potential. All though Laf has a better scoring touch than Hubs.

Scoring goals is great. So important obviously. But where is the playmaking that was touted and that he showed in Jrs? I know he doesn't skate like or play like Kreider, but I don't think we need another unbalanced goal scoring specialist who doesn't do a whole lot else offensively. With his skillset, he should be racking up assists too, or at least, based on the skills he showed when he was younger and what he was touted as. Maybe they will come. Again, his goal scoring is great, but he needs to show some creativity. He may even have more goals than most players in his cumulative ice time, but the points in totality need to increase.

A couple of other things. I don't think his speed is quite average, I think a little below. Not quite Dylan Strome slow, but on the slowish side. And his skating was touted as excellent and it's not the worst. But I honestly think spending an offseason with a skating guru, like Bo Horvat did, would do wonders for him and his overall game. If he could truly improve and become a more skilled overall skater, the speed wont be an issue, or at least less of an issue.

Another thing I think people overlooked heading into his draft year, he was a big and mature kid for his age. Big and mature for at least a few seasons, while those he played against were still smaller and maturing. This gave him a big edge in Jr level, which doesn't translate to the NHL, where he's pretty average size and strength. He will get strong but he will never have that big edge he had over other kids his age. And that alone is going to mean a big adjustment, which I think we are seeing. He can't just move guys out of the way like he was able to and he gets moved more than he used to against smaller opponents.

Plus, his game will obviously have to be in the mold of skilled power forward and power forwards sometimes take longer to mature usually, Some times many years more. I am thinking of like Morrow, Puljujarvi and various others. Not every power guy can come into the league like Brady Tkachuk say and just plow grown men over. Plus, that's not quite Laf's game he's more subtle despite being relatively strong. So he will have to learn to combine those two areas which isn't easy in the NHL. A player like him might honestly not totally mature until like 23, 24.

Lawson Crouse might be a good example. While not nearly as skilled as Laf and not nearly the player, and certainly even more of a "power game", finally at 24 this year, he's looking improved offensively, like he's piecing it together. Not suggesting Crouse has near the ceiling of Laf ,or that Laf should, but just an example of bigger guys taking longer to put all the pieces together. And perhaps learning how to use his power where he doesn't have the same size and skill advantages he did when he was younger. But he will need to, because while he is super skilled, he's not a super skater or super speedy, so he will need to make contact or use his body in order to create space in order to use that high end stick skill rather than skating around guys.

As far as comps, I see a lot of similarities with Huberdeau. Huberdeau, who might not have Laf's scoring touch, but in overall play, size and style, I think they are very similar. And I think Laf could eventually be the playmaker Huberdeau is with more scoring touch. Or at least, that's what I would say is his potential. And it certainly took Huberdeau many years to become the player he is now. I think they could have a very similar career path. Which means, it's still going to be a few years possibly before Laf can put it all together. But that's the best comp I see when I watch Laf play at least. And if he did turn into a Huberdeau type player, well, I think everyone would be happy in the long run. Patience though is required.

Given Huberdeau is the front runner for the Hart this seems way too optimistic
 
I’ve said it before, I see a lot of Stepan in Laf’s game right now.
 
I think we see two different things. I see a kid that doesn't have to do as much on the ice right now because he's on the ice of better players that takes some pressure off of him, but I also see a kid that when he gets the puck in a lot of spots is just making all kinds of mistakes he keeps trying to force things. I think a lot of that still comes down to what I perceived to be at best average skating and the struggle of trying to keep up with better and faster players. He still struggles horrifically getting the puck through the neutral zone and in the offensive zone he's very predictable as far as what he's going to do when he has the puck. Like I said, I'm just looking to see that kind of spark of elite skill that I don't think he shown very much at all. I'm not giving up on him in any way, I'm just waiting. I've said all season that next year is the year that I think he really starts to show what he can be in the future and this season is just another growth year. I just want to see some sparks of elite skill out of him though
On the 3rd line I saw that. With Zibs and Kreids, I don't. He setup a bunch of grade A chances. What more can we honestly expect from him?

Even Panarin in this system/season looks similar to what you described.

Like I've been saying this is way beyond a personnel issue IMO.
 
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His speed is average. I dont see how anyone can watch him skate and think he's slow. Is he blinding fast like mackinnon or mcdavid obviously not, but hes not slow at all, he's also got a good sense of balance which is more important in offensive cycles.

His shot is a good shot, he's got a strong backhand and a strong forehand. He's got a quick release and a strong shot, he didnt lose either of those things from juniors, but he hasn't been blasting the puck regularly and once he starts to it'll open up more room.
He has good hands and you can watch game by game as he starts to move the defensemen, and works the play in deep. He absolutely turns the puck over at times because he's still working out what he can get away with.

Yesterday his speed seemed average NHLer which is a big jump for him, his vision was actually good at spotting the right players at the right time and hanging on to the puck long enough to make a play, and his board work was above average as well. But that's just one game so not very impressive.

Sorry, but I am not seeing the same thing. I am not saying Laf is a bad player, but from what I have seen so far, he looks like an 2nd/3rd line tweener. I would of course love to be proven wrong here, but I just don't see the "it" factor with this kid, especially for a 1OA pick.
 
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The shame is if the two plays he sets up are finished and he doesn’t have Fox blocking the goal, he’s got a three point night and the paranoid panic in here is non-existent. He’s been playing very well lately. He’s also 20, which I know has to be stressed daily.
 
Given Huberdeau is the front runner for the Hart this seems way too optimistic

What does him possibly challenging for a Hart in his 10th season have anything to do with his development in his first few years? Where he was getting more opportunity in the top 6 and on the PP than Laf has? I said think they can be similar players. It doesn't mean they are going to be identical in comparison. What you are saying is wholly irrelevant. Huberdeau didn't exactly look like a Hart contender until his like 7th season. That's when he really broke out. He had some decent seasons before then, a few seasons scoring in the 50s, and 69 in his 6th season. But he looked nothing but average prior to say his 6th season. And when he was scoring in the 50's in his 3rd and 4th season, no one thought he was going to be a Hart contender. Such a strange way to interpret things honestly. Irrational even.
 
What does him possibly challenging for a Hart in his 10th season have anything to do with his development in his first few years? Where he was getting more opportunity in the top 6 and on the PP than Laf has? I said think they can be similar players. It doesn't mean they are going to be identical in comparison. What you are saying is wholly irrelevant. Huberdeau didn't exactly look like a Hart contender until his like 7th season. That's when he really broke out. He had some decent seasons before then, a few seasons scoring in the 50s, and 69 in his 6th season. But he looked nothing but average prior to say his 6th season. And when he was scoring in the 50's in his 3rd and 4th season, no one thought he was going to be a Hart contender. Such a strange way to interpret things honestly. Irrational even.
Yup Huberdeau was drafted 3rd in 2011, and didn’t make the NHL till about halfway through his D+2 season. He didn’t reach 25 career NHL goals till during his D+4 season. PATIENCE is a must with some players. It’s doubtful that EVERY SINGLE NHL scout was wrong about this kid. Honestly I see him developing into a Messier-lite type of player. He’s got that edge to his game and cares about his team and teammates.
 
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nah he not.


But i remember when Huberdeau was a youngster and hadn't broken out yet, he would still pull sick goals out his hat all the time. Haven't seen a hint of high end skill from Laf in his career yet.

You're joking..... Firstly, he's not a Hart contender? I'm pretty sure that was the only thing Rangerfansince08 got correct. He's going to be in the running. He probably won't win it, but he will be in the running and get some votes I am sure. Deservedly so. Right now he's tied with McDavid and Draisatl at exactly 68 points a piece. So yea.... he's in the running. And you know what, I could see them giving it to him just to switch it up a bit. Especially if he does the unlikely, ending the season with more points than both. Which, while being a longshot, he's totally capable of, especially on that fire Panther team.

Next, Huberdeau's goal scoring is good but he's far more a playaker. He was a better NHL playmaker earlier on . But Laf so far looks like he will be a superior goal scorer. Not that Hubs is a bad goal scorer, but it's not his forte. "High end skill" please....... what a subjective assessment. His first 4 seasons, Hubs scored 14, 9, 15, 20 goals. Again, getting way more opportunity and PP opportunity than Laf has. Can;t find TOI stats Hubs rookie year, but his 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons went 15:39. 16:44, 18:08. And again, he was used in the top 6 and on the PP regularly. Lafs TOI first two years so far 13:52, 13:41. And with that right now, Laf is on pace to score more goals than Hubs scored any season up until his 4th. Playing more games than Laf has, with again, around 2 minutes per game his first 2 seasons and then 3 and 5 minutes 3rd and 4th season, more TOI than Laf has gotten, and more consistent top 6 and PP minutes.

Now I am not suggesting he and Hubs are going to put up identical numbers or develop in an identical way. But suggesting Huberdeau has been doing what he's doing now his whole career is bonkers. He had an ok first few seasons. He got better but was still just a slightly above average player until his 6th season basically.
 
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and we haven't seen it. We've been horrendous at 5v5. He's been playing with underachieving players in limited time. We're starting to see it slightly now in a top6 role. His hands are much better than he has shown. I dont know if it's confidence/over thinking things but nothing really looked natural until the past couple games.
100% confidence. How suddenly was he going off last night? People that watched last night, two nights ago my bad, and don’t think he was probably playing his best game of the year boggle my mind. He was all over the ice. When you’re confident, it changes everything. When you’re not, you’re looking to get rid of the puck every time you touch it and handling it like a grenade. He’s a much better player than he’s been so far in his career. Gallant needs to stop now. Play the kid on the top line and give him 3v3 like I watch Stutzle and tons of other young guns get.
 
The shame is if the two plays he sets up are finished and he doesn’t have Fox blocking the goal, he’s got a three point night and the paranoid panic in here is non-existent. He’s been playing very well lately. He’s also 20, which I know has to be stressed daily.

A lot of that stems from the fact that there are 20 year olds and even 19 year olds playing in the NHL right now on worse teams and with more points than Laf in half as much games. I'm not one for paranoia, but I think the concern is warranted for a guy who went #1 in the draft and has more penalty minutes than points to date.
 
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I'm with you. Trade Strome for whatever and move Laf to center. See what happens.

Have we seen Laf’s ability on face offs? I’d be delighted if he’s an upgrade on some of our other Cs who tend to struggle on this
 
A lot of that stems from the fact that there are 20 year olds and even 19 year olds playing in the NHL right now on worse teams and with more points than Laf in half as much games. I'm not one for paranoia, but I think the concern is warranted for a guy who went #1 in the draft and has more penalty minutes than points to date.
When bad teams have a significant lack of high-end talent, those kids are exposed to bigger mins and PP time. Ducks, Wings, Sens, etc. Which team has a PP of Kreider-Zib-Strome with Panarin and Fox on it? None of them even come close.
 
When bad teams have a significant lack of high-end talent, those kids are exposed to bigger mins and PP time. Ducks, Wings, Sens, etc. Which team has a PP of Kreider-Zib-Strome with Panarin and Fox on it? None of them even come close.

What about these kids who are outproducing Kakko/Lafrenière?

Lundell (FLA)
Jarvis (CAR)
Newhook (COL)
McMichael (WSH)
Tomasino (NSH)
Boldy (MIN)
 
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What about these kids who are outproducing Kakko/Lafrenière?

Lundell (FLA)
Jarvis (CAR)
Newhook (COL)
McMichael (WSH)
Tomasino (NSH)
Boldy (MIN)

FLA, CAR, COL are hard-working teams that focus on moving the puck with speed and purpose (unlike the Rangers).

WSH, NSH, MIN play structured two way hockey (unlike the Rangers).

The Rangers are Panarin playing pond hockey, Zib and Kreider skating around for a bit, Shesty stealing games and the PP.
 
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Sorry, but I am not seeing the same thing. I am not saying Laf is a bad player, but from what I have seen so far, he looks like an 2nd/3rd line tweener. I would of course love to be proven wrong here, but I just don't see the "it" factor with this kid, especially for a 1OA pick.
Nothing I described was an 'it' factor. I think our expectations are different. I've reset mine and are looking for shifts where he's a net positive, instead of a dead end where plays go to die. If he builds on that consistently he can be a top 6er and we can start to hope for more. But that's 1-2 years away minimum.
 
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