Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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Another solid game. I am just going to keep saying it because I know no matter how good the game is if a point isn’t on the board people will keep bitchi**. That’s fine. They’ll be eating bone dry crow in three years and I’ll be pulling screenshots and receipts.

Next year will be three years. Good games don't win games. Points do, but to each his own. And you guys here talking about PP1 w/ Top 6 role and minutes..

..and then you realize that Laf only has 4 more points than Reeves and more penalty minutes for the season. Lol. But, GG kid.
 
Another solid game. I am just going to keep saying it because I know no matter how good the game is if a point isn’t on the board people will keep bitchi**. That’s fine. They’ll be eating bone dry crow in three years and I’ll be pulling screenshots and receipts.
He’s been the least productive 1st overall pick in like 40 years, people have the right to bitch as much as they want. He has been an embarrassment, same with Kakko.
 
A lot of that stems from the fact that there are 20 year olds and even 19 year olds playing in the NHL right now on worse teams and with more points than Laf in half as much games. I'm not one for paranoia, but I think the concern is warranted for a guy who went #1 in the draft and has more penalty minutes than points to date.

No two humans are equal. Not siblings, not even "identical" twins and certainly not completely different non related humans. So comparison is only helpful if a number of variables are factored in. Team, teammates, coach, style, development path etc.... And the most important, development is non-linear. Some players like say Makar, McDavid, Crosby etc.. do most of their developing right away. Shot out of a cannon basically. But their development curve flattens relatively soon. Meaning they make a huge jump early and then level off to some degree. They continue to "develop" sure, but at a slower rate, and often, just through experience rather than physical or skills. Other players take time. Have some invisible years, and then a number of years later finally piece it all together. Some take a more stop and start approach. It's all relative. SO it's very difficult to tell what a "bust" is.

I would say that expectations are a big factor as well. The hype and expectations surrounding Laf were more than there should have been. He wasn't Crosby or Ovechkin, or Matthews or even for that matter Tavares and he shouldn't have been hyped as such. Same thing happening to Shane Wright, all though I do think Wright will be a more effective NHL player out of the gate, in part because I think his positives are that he's a complete player rather than just a high skill player. His skill level is high, but not Crosby high, but his compete and complete game level is balanced and high, like a John Toews kind of. So he will be a great NHL player, lesser fantasy player, but can possibly be a winning player. Toews himself I think only scored a PPG or more pace two out of all his NHL seasons. Yet he's still going to go down as a great player. Maybe HOF, not sure. But great player none the less.

Laf is a bit different. He's more skill based, higher ceiling potentially, but needs to achieve and raise those skills in order to impact games at a higher level. So it might just take him longer to put it all together. To get comfortable in his adult body, to get comfortable adjusting to playing against men, bigger than he was, rather than JR players who were generally less physically mature than he was.

Look at Elias Lindholm, Joe Pavelski, Brett Burns, Marchand and a number of other players. They went years without doing much of anything. Showing occasional flashes, but not really hinting at the players they would eventually become. Because they didn't just start out like Raymond or Seider or Zegras.
 
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Next year will be three years. Good games don't win games. Points do, but to each his own. And you guys here talking about PP1 w/ Top 6 role and minutes..

..and then you realize that Laf only has 4 more points than Reeves and more penalty minutes for the season. Lol. But, GG kid.

Um no, good games also help win games. You can score 1 point in a game and still win because no ONE thing wins games. Points win games, sure, but you need just 1. You can score 7 points and still lose, it happens. Enough 6-5 games where both teams should have scored enough to win but one lost because the team didn't stop 2 goals. Goaltending can win games, great defense can win games, good all around play can "win games". No one player needs to score to win games. It's a team sport. Any of the members of the team could provide that point or two, and the rest of the team , by playing their part can still "win the game". Looking at it from that narrow and fallacious perspective helps no one and serves no real purpose other than to make a really poor argument for whatever subjective, pessimistic purpose.
 
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If you put Zegras and Lundell on this team, they aren't close to the players they are in Anaheim/Florida. This org simply doesn't know how to handle kids at that age.

I think Zegras would shine in NY. He is that special of a player and loves the spotlight. Only issue he is still trying to learn to play in his own end, there has been struggles there but not too many rookies are going to learn a full 200 foot game in their first season.

Not sure how much patience Gallant would have with that. We know Quinn would have most likely benched him after making that alley oop play. Torts would have healthy scratched him next game. Lol.
 
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I think Zegras would shine in NY. He is that special of a player and loves the spotlight. Only issue he is still trying to learn to play in his own end, there has been struggles there but what rookie is going to learn a full 200 foot game in their first season?

Not sure how much patience Gallant would have with that. We know Quinn would have most likely benched him after making that alley oop play. Torts would have healthy scratched him next game. Lol.

I am not sure about Zegras. Seems like a great offensive player but not sure yet how his all around game will turn out as you said. Lundell on the other hand, well, I would trade Laf or Kakko straight up for him in a minute. Heck, I would probably package like Laf and Lundkvist for Lundell. Kid is going to be a winner and a complete center in this league. Sure, he wouldn't be quite as successful on other teams. Panthers are stacked and playoff bound and have one of the best overall rosters in the league. But I think Lundell would succeed anywhere. He's that good and he has all the complete traits to contribute game by game in many ways. So if his offense is down one game, he's still contributing, if he makes a defensive lapse, he's still contributing in other ways. He would be our future number 1 center and an ideal 2C behind Zibby right now. But obviously, Florida would never trade him, not for anything any team would be willing to pay at least, for good reason. They wouldn't move him for Byfield, or Raymond, or Beniers, or Eklund or like even Wright probably. Obviously they would for McDavid, Makar, Fox, MacKinnon or Matthews, but that obviously would be the reverse of what we are talking about, all ready the best players in the league. Maybe they'd move him for a guy like Seider or Power? But as far as prospects go, those are pretty much the only two I could actually see them even considering.
 
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I think Zegras would shine in NY. He is that special of a player and loves the spotlight. Only issue he is still trying to learn to play in his own end, there has been struggles there but not too many rookies are going to learn a full 200 foot game in their first season.

Not sure how much patience Gallant would have with that. We know Quinn would have most likely benched him after making that alley oop play. Torts would have healthy scratched him next game. Lol.

Zegras grew up a Rangers fan so I’m counting the days till he forces his way here.

No joke in the slightest - they should be earmarking cap space for him in the year after every one of his contract years.
 
Next year will be three years. Good games don't win games. Points do, but to each his own. And you guys here talking about PP1 w/ Top 6 role and minutes..

..and then you realize that Laf only has 4 more points than Reeves and more penalty minutes for the season. Lol. But, GG kid.
That’s fine. Look, it hasn’t been what any of us expected, but the situation here is unique. 32-13-5 with this team, a year after they didn’t make the playoffs and were getting run out of games the final two weeks. Totally uncompetitive. Lafrenière takes the big step next year with consistent minutes in the top-6, another off-season of hard work, and then PP time, hopefully. How much PP and even strength time are Zegras and Raymond getting? Are they on PP1? Are there teams even in the same stratosphere as the Rangers? Nope.
 
Zegras grew up a Rangers fan so I’m counting the days till he forces his way here.

No joke in the slightest - they should be earmarking cap space for him in the year after every one of his contract years.

I almost wonder if Zegras was hugely disappointed when the Rangers won the lottery in 2019. Meant he wouldn't be drafted by them.
 
Next year will be three years. Good games don't win games. Points do, but to each his own. And you guys here talking about PP1 w/ Top 6 role and minutes..

..and then you realize that Laf only has 4 more points than Reeves and more penalty minutes for the season. Lol. But, GG kid.
Good games do win games. What are you talking about here?
 
Not super worried with what I've seen from Laf lately, and I'm probably one of his bigger critics.

He's starting to make plays. Really good dishes and sauce passes that only high end players can make on the regular. He's had a metric f*** ton of really nice plays to teammates that resulted in goaltender robbery/inability to finish.

To surmise what I've seen from Lafreniere in the past 2 months, look no further than 2 games ago when he was stonewalled by Adam Fox's ass on a sure goal. If you're watching objectively, he's had some seriously terrible luck a lot of the time.

That being said, he needs to shoot the puck more. And he needs to figure out how to get to the middle of the ice. He has a really good shot but elects not to use it. I honestly think that him and Kakko seriously look up to Panarin/Kreider/Zibanejad and just want to force feed them passes all day. But that's really not their game; both need to start being more unselfish because their shooting threat in and of itself will open up more for those other guys
 
Two things can both be true, that he continues to look active, engaged, and about to break out, while also being a tremendous let down that he’s not scoring more.
Jesus, buddy, don’t be an even headed adult. Just embrace the bust. “Worst numba one eva!”
 
The things that keep me from being despondent about Lafreniere is, first, he does score goals at 5v5 like many other top picks, and second, this team does absolutely nothing at 5v5.

This is more than a “his team sucks,” and “he doesn’t have good line mates,” complaint.

The team has something deeply wrong with its 5v5 play. They don’t score at even strength and that’s all he plays.
 
The things that keep me from being despondent about Lafreniere is, first, he does score goals at 5v5 like many other top picks, and second, this team does absolutely nothing at 5v5.

This is more than a “his team sucks,” and “he doesn’t have good line mates,” complaint.

The team has something deeply wrong with its 5v5 play. They don’t score at even strength and that’s all he plays.
Yeah. Like a lot of us I’ve been watching hockey for a long time. 55 years in my case I’d say. A lot of great players don’t set the league on fire the first five years. Huberdeau, even being a 3OA didn’t even MAKE the NHL until about a month earlier than where Laf is at in his career right now. Do I wish he was setting the league on fire? Of course. Do I worry at times, of course, we’re the NYR, for chrissakes. And you’re correct: he is not on a team/in circumstances where he is going to have big numbers yet. But the odds are really good he becomes an impact player. He’s not going to be a flashy player so much as an “elite grinder.” Already hits like a truck and he doesn’t even seem to have his man strength yet. People writing him off are either panicking or just want him to fail or are just shit stirring, IMO. It’s gotten to the point that I’ve actually started enjoying the ridiculousness of the incessant shitting on the kid.
Oddly enough, despite him being such a “bust” he (and Kakko too) is still a “trade target” for any team we try to make an impact deal with, at least according to the fans. I don’t know why anyone would want us to trade them our “busts.”
 
Another solid game. I am just going to keep saying it because I know no matter how good the game is if a point isn’t on the board people will keep bitchi**. That’s fine. They’ll be eating bone dry crow in three years and I’ll be pulling screenshots and receipts.

Yea its really hard to argue he hasn't been playing well the past four or five games.
 
Yeah. Like a lot of us I’ve been watching hockey for a long time. 55 years in my case I’d say. A lot of great players don’t set the league on fire the first five years. Huberdeau, even being a 3OA didn’t even MAKE the NHL until about a month earlier than where Laf is at in his career right now. Do I wish he was setting the league on fire? Of course. Do I worry at times, of course, we’re the NYR, for chrissakes. And you’re correct: he is not on a team/in circumstances where he is going to have big numbers yet. But the odds are really good he becomes an impact player. He’s not going to be a flashy player so much as an “elite grinder.” Already hits like a truck and he doesn’t even seem to have his man strength yet. People writing him off are either panicking or just want him to fail or are just shit stirring, IMO. It’s gotten to the point that I’ve actually started enjoying the ridiculousness of the incessant shitting on the kid.
Oddly enough, despite him being such a “bust” he (and Kakko too) is still a “trade target” for any team we try to make an impact deal with, at least according to the fans. I don’t know why anyone would want us to trade them our “busts.”

Elite grinder? Is that the type of player Huberdeau is or is there a better comparable?
 
He will be fine, give the kid time to put it together at this level. This is the best environment for him to work on his game because we're playing well and winning games...imagine if we were terrible and losing? There'd be even more pressure on him. He'll get his ice time and opportunities to contribute, but is not the center of attention. IMO, that's a good thing right now.
 
And what was his 5v5 scoring rate?
His g/60? let’s compare apples to apples.
The lengths some of you will go to rationalize Lafreniere and even Kakko's underperformance is astonishing. For reference, Yakupov's P/60 was 2.14 in his d+1 while Lafreniere is at 1.39 in his d+2. That doesn't even take into account that scoring is higher now than it was when Nail debuted. Even in Yakupov's d+2 he was at 1.45. Does that help answer your question?
 
Lafreniere's has outscored Stutzle at 5v5 since they entered the league. Sucks that we busted on 1OA but wow, that would suck to be stuck with the German.
 
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