Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[The Crypto Guy]

Remember when we thought we had a star in Petr Prucha when he scored 30 goals his rookie year? Memories that last a lifetime.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

iirc that was Miller in Vancouver after Tampa traded him, but i could be wrong

It was.

 

[Crease]

Remember when we thought we had a star in Petr Prucha when she scored 30 goals his rookie year? Memories that last a lifetime.

Rangers fans on the main board stating they would rather have Prucha than Crosby because the latter was a cry baby and diver.

 

[Thirty One]

Rangers fans on the main board stating they would rather have Prucha than Crosby because the latter was a cry baby and diver.

I stand by that.

 

[will1066]

A healthy Kakko when he returns is going to run through that 60-point brick wall like the Kool-Aid Man.

 

[LokiDog]

Right now, I’d take Prucha over Laf. Yes, he has been playing better recently. However, we’ve become so desperate to validate his performance that we’re literally using lines like “no he hasn’t created a single point that’s made it onto the score sheet in nearly 6 decades, but have you SEEN how much his game has improved this week??!!!” to convince ourselves that the big breakout is annnnnnny day now.

I’m not saying there haven’t been positive signs or that he’s never going to be a player. What I’m saying is, this is like your brother being in a coma, on life support and showing some brain activity and you saying “see, I told you he’s gonna be an Olympic sprinter!”. Laf is showing he could break out into like a 50-60 point complimentary winger right now. Let’s be honest. The ONLY reason not to have him on the table for a legitimate center under ~27 is the REMOTE possibility of having egg on your face when the 20 year old kid you traded for a 65-75 point center eventually puts up 75 points one day himself. The likelihood isn’t nil, but it’s slimmer than Nils, if you know what I’m saying.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I thought he was also on record saying he started taking his career more seriously.

iirc that was Miller in Vancouver after Tampa traded him, but i could be wrong

Mika may have said something to that effect as well, but no strome didn't say that.

 

[RickChartraw]

Remember when we thought we had a star in Petr Prucha when she scored 30 goals his rookie year? Memories that last a lifetime.

i enjoyed that season. jagr-nylander-straka were gold, but man when you look at the rest of the roster....oof. henrik excluded. petr scored 16 of his 30 on the pp. i did think we had something, i was wrong.

 

[duhmetreE]

Right now, I’d take Prucha over Laf. Yes, he has been playing better recently. However, we’ve become so desperate to validate his performance that we’re literally using lines like “no he hasn’t created a single point that’s made it onto the score sheet in nearly 6 decades, but have you SEEN how much his game has improved this week??!!!” to convince ourselves that the big breakout is annnnnnny day now.

I’m not saying there haven’t been positive signs or that he’s never going to be a player. What I’m saying is, this is like your brother being in a coma, on life support and showing some brain activity and you saying “see, I told you he’s gonna be an Olympic sprinter!”. Laf is showing he could break out into like a 50-60 point complimentary winger right now. Let’s be honest. The ONLY reason not to have him on the table for a legitimate center under ~27 is the REMOTE possibility of having egg on your face when the 20 year old kid you traded for a 65-75 point center eventually puts up 75 points one day himself. The likelihood isn’t nil, but it’s slimmer than Nils, if you know what I’m saying.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

A healthy Kakko when he returns is going to run through that 60-point brick wall like the Kool-Aid Man.

you think he's still gonna be a Ranger when he's 29?

 

[TheDirtyH]

Right now, I’d take Prucha over Laf. Yes, he has been playing better recently. However, we’ve become so desperate to validate his performance that we’re literally using lines like “no he hasn’t created a single point that’s made it onto the score sheet in nearly 6 decades, but have you SEEN how much his game has improved this week??!!!” to convince ourselves that the big breakout is annnnnnny day now.

I’m not saying there haven’t been positive signs or that he’s never going to be a player. What I’m saying is, this is like your brother being in a coma, on life support and showing some brain activity and you saying “see, I told you he’s gonna be an Olympic sprinter!”. Laf is showing he could break out into like a 50-60 point complimentary winger right now. Let’s be honest. The ONLY reason not to have him on the table for a legitimate center under ~27 is the REMOTE possibility of having egg on your face when the 20 year old kid you traded for a 65-75 point center eventually puts up 75 points one day himself. The likelihood isn’t nil, but it’s slimmer than Nils, if you know what I’m saying.

Not to be the 'there's a middle ground' guy but, can't there be room for believing that Lafreniere has disappointed relative to expectations, should be in play for a legit hockey trade, and that there is plenty of room for optimism in regards to his play and output?

Like, I don't really put much stock into individual games or worry about whether or when he looks great or bad. I also don't care very much about his underwhelming output because of his role, usage, and especially because of the team he plays for. I don't think it's this capital letters REMOTE possibility that he takes off and becomes a player worthy of his draft position. All that said, I also don't think trading him for a player who fits the team and its timeline better is automatically a bad idea.

Personally, I feel like--as with many topics on these boards--discussion around Lafreniere has gone full cartoon in both directions. The stretches to try to justify or validate the player are no more ludicrous or incessant than the ones being made to criticize him. We all were told we'd have a sixty point player out of the box. We didn't get it. We've been living that reality for 100 games now. It'd be nice if people could either be patient and optimistic, or be on board with trading him because they think he's a bust--without the one group always feeling the need to invalidate or dunk on the other.

 

[LokiDog]

I said right now lol

And it is an exaggeration to get a point across. Shouldn’t have written it, but in line with the rest of my post, we’re 100% pulling any loose thread we can grab a hold of to justify Laf’s massively underwhelming career so far, and only deluding ourselves when we do so. Right now, Laf has a long way to go to even be a 50 point player. Not a potential 50 point player. Not a “well if anyone would finish his passes, he would be” player. He’s the #1OA pick. And he’s still a ways away from even looking like a true 50 point player, let alone a guy who should be a dealbreaker in an offer for a center. It sucks to say it, but it is true.

The Prucha love affair was short lived, but 30 goals and 47 points in 68 games as a rookie. Damn, I’d kill for Laf to put that up next year.

 

[LokiDog]

Not to be the 'there's a middle ground' guy but, can't there be room for believing that Lafreniere has disappointed relative to expectations, should be in play for a legit hockey trade, and that there is plenty of room for optimism in regards to his play and output?

Like, I don't really put much stock into individual games or worry about whether or when he looks great or bad. I also don't care very much about his underwhelming output because of his role, usage, and especially because of the team he plays for. I don't think it's this capital letters REMOTE possibility that he takes off and becomes a player worthy of his draft position. All that said, I also don't think trading him for a player who fits the team and its timeline better is automatically a bad idea.

Personally, I feel like--as with many topics on these boards--discussion around Lafreniere has gone full cartoon in both directions. The stretches to try to justify or validate the player are no more ludicrous or incessant than the ones being made to criticize him. We all were told we'd have a sixty point player out of the box. We didn't get it. We've been living that reality for 100 games now. It'd be nice if people could either be patient and optimistic, or be on board with trading him because they think he's a bust--without the one group always feeling the need to invalidate or dunk on the other.

Well I did go out of my way to say that none of this meant I didn’t think he could breakout or be a player. I just said that, right now? It honestly is looking pretty remote that he becomes a consistent 70+ point player. That’s not that outrageous to say. How many 70+ point seasons would you comfortably wager any real amount of money on him having? If you can gain an age appropriate 65 point center, that alone is worth moving a no guarantees winger for. Yet people act like Laf could only be on the table for McDavid, Draisaitl, Point, MacKinnon, Matthews and Barkov. That’s far more out to lunch than suggesting he isn’t even a shoe in to ever hit 60 points.

 

[Draft Guru]

Right now, I’d take Prucha over Laf.

Prucha was 23 during his rookie season.

Lets see what Laf looks like at 23.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Well I did go out of my way to say that none of this meant I didn’t think he could breakout or be a player. I just said that, right now? It honestly is looking pretty remote that he becomes a consistent 70+ point player. That’s not that outrageous to say. How many 70+ point seasons would be you comfortably wager any real amount of money on him having? If you can gain an age appropriate 65 point center, that alone is worth moving a no guarantees winger for. Yet people act like Laf could only be on the table for McDavid, Draisaitl, Point, MacKinnon, Matthews and Barkov. That’s far more out to lunch than suggesting he isn’t even a shoe in to ever hit 60 points.

I guess the meat of what I was getting as was more the false equivalency between someone having a much more optimistic outlook on Lafreniere and 'we're all grasping at straws and deluding ourselves.'

My example would be Stutzle? Would you trade him straight up for Lafreniere? I'd definitely consider it. Stutzle is a center and one of his biggest strengths is his speed which are two deficiencies with our roster. But am I ready in any way to say Stutzle is or will be the better player overall--not really at all. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you'd do that trade in a heartbeat. That's fine, and we disagree. I don't think you're out to lunch, wildly impatient, or missing the obvious because we don't come to the same conclusion.

(And just to your point, I'm confident Lafreniere would've paced at 50 points last year as a rookie if he played in the top 6 all year and especially if he had played on the top PP. I wouldn't wager anything on what will happen because I think point totals have a lot to do with minutes which I have no way of predicting. So that's where I stand on that.)

 

[LokiDog]

I guess the meat of what I was getting as was more the false equivalency between someone having a much more optimistic outlook on Lafreniere and 'we're all grasping at straws and deluding ourselves.'

My example would be Stutzle? Would you trade him straight up for Lafreniere? I'd definitely consider it. Stutzle is a center and one of his biggest strengths is his speed which are two deficiencies with our roster. But am I ready in any way to say Stutzle is or will be the better player overall--not really at all. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you'd do that trade in a heartbeat. That's fine, and we disagree. I don't think you're out to lunch, wildly impatient, or missing the obvious because we don't come to the same conclusion.

I would do the trade in a heart beat. I also wouldn’t declare one player to be for sure better/better career while doing so. But positional/organizational need, I would still not hesitate. Because even if Stuetzle topped out as a 65 point speedy center and Laf eventually found his game as an 80 point winger, I would still take the 20 year old speedy center for our organization at this point in time. Which means there are plenty of other centers I’d move Laf for as well.

 

[will1066]

you think he's still gonna be a Ranger when he's 29?

Well played. Well played.

 

[Rangers in 7]

I would do the trade in a heart beat. I also wouldn’t declare one player to be for sure better/better career while doing so. But positional/organizational need, I would still not hesitate. Because even if Stuetzle topped out as a 65 point speedy center and Laf eventually found his game as an 80 point winger, I would still take the 20 year old speedy center for our organization at this point in time. Which means there are plenty of other centers I’d move Laf for as well.

This is so insanely stupid…if laf ends up a consistent 80 point player and stutzle tops out as a 65 point player I take the 80 point ALL-AROUND player everyday

people need to stop being idiots on this board

 

[Row I Goon]

 

[ReddestRum]

Looks like Laf is on the main boards again. Ignored pretty much everything except this post that is basically me right now concerning Laf.

Ah the duality of hfboards.

On the one hand you have dipshits gleefully writing the obituaries of people who barely shave, and on the other side you have Rangers fans desperately trying to offer copes like, 'but if we ignore his assist totals and his lack of noticeability on the ice, he's sort of okay".

At the end of the day, it's troubling that he has been both unproductive and not especially noticeable. Does it say much about his long-term viability? If I'm a Rangers fan I'm probably 30% concerned trending towards 40%, I'm certainly not giving up on him.

But telling yourself you aren't bitterly disappointed at the results thus far is just dishonest, whether to yourself or just to others.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Laf should've went down to the A build his confidence. Kakko maybe as well. Something to get him going. I can't possibly be happy with his production when there are kids his age and younger producing for their own teams. No matter what those other player circumstances are, it just can't be ignored that Laf (who was killing it in Juniors) hit a roadblock in the NHL.

 

[brakeyawself]

Right now, I’d take Prucha over Laf. Yes, he has been playing better recently. However, we’ve become so desperate to validate his performance that we’re literally using lines like “no he hasn’t created a single point that’s made it onto the score sheet in nearly 6 decades, but have you SEEN how much his game has improved this week??!!!” to convince ourselves that the big breakout is annnnnnny day now.

I’m not saying there haven’t been positive signs or that he’s never going to be a player. What I’m saying is, this is like your brother being in a coma, on life support and showing some brain activity and you saying “see, I told you he’s gonna be an Olympic sprinter!”. Laf is showing he could break out into like a 50-60 point complimentary winger right now. Let’s be honest. The ONLY reason not to have him on the table for a legitimate center under ~27 is the REMOTE possibility of having egg on your face when the 20 year old kid you traded for a 65-75 point center eventually puts up 75 points one day himself. The likelihood isn’t nil, but it’s slimmer than Nils, if you know what I’m saying.

I am totally with you. Always take the proven failure over the "unknown" commodity/potential. ALWAYS. Top notch wisdom right there. Biblical even.

 

[Peltz]

Remember when we thought we had a star in Petr Prucha when he scored 30 goals his rookie year? Memories that last a lifetime.

Nah, the goals he scored were really flukey and he was never a big scorer in juniors. I sort of knew he was having a career year as a rookie.

 

[Levitate]

One of the things I remember with Prucha is that he scored a ton on the PP that 30 goal season and then the next season Renney took him off the power play and limited his minutes and then we all wondered why he wasn't scoring

I don't think he was a legit 30 goal threat but I do think he kinda got screwed by Renney wanting something else out of him instead of leaning into his strengths

 

[LokiDog]

This is so insanely stupid…if laf ends up a consistent 80 point player and stutzle tops out as a 65 point player I take the 80 point ALL-AROUND player everyday

people need to stop being idiots on this board

So looking at the last 3 years in total, all forwards, points per game played, here’s a list of wingers averaging about 10-20 more points per season than the centers. For arguments sake, let’s assume all are the same age and price, like Laf and Stutz. You tell me which group you’d take and if I’m insanely stupid.

Huberdeau
Marchand
Rantanen
Marner
Panarin
Pastrnak

Barkov
Bergeron
Aho
Zibanejad
Point
Eichel

In a vacuum that’s a list of some of the best wingers in the world, but in terms of building a winner and trying to contend - if you were told you could have any two wingers or any two centers on these lists, I believe you’re taking 2 centers all day.

How about Kyle Conner, Max Paccioretty, JT Miller and Bryan Rust? All are between 1.01 and .97 points per game over the past 3 years. Do you take them over Dylan Larkin, Elias Lindholm, Barzal, Pettersson, Couturier, ROR, Kadri, Kuznetsov? It’s at the very least close, but again, those centers all average .85-.8 points per game.

There’s your 15 point difference between a winger and a center. I’m missing the part where I’m “insanely stupid”.

 

[SA16]

I think I would take every one of those wings over all of those centers except Barkov.