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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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SA16 said:
I think I would take every one of those wings over all of those centers except Barkov.
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Not factoring age and contract? You’re taking Marner and Pastrnak over Bergeron, if they were all 27? I think the importance of having centers is being undersold here. Sure, in a vacuum I might take a lot of those wingers on my team. But if I was the Rangers, would I trade Panarin 1 for 1 for Aho? Probably. With Aho, Zibanejad you’re a contender. With Zibanejad, Panarin you’re not.

Huberdeau - Howden - Marner
Pastrnak - Rooney - Rust

vs

Goodrow - Barkov - Kakko
Blais - Aho - Chytil

Would likely be a lot closer than it should be, despite the wingers having 4 superstars and the centers only having two.
 
Loki Dog 74 said:
Not factoring age and contract? You’re taking Marner and Pastrnak over Bergeron, if they were all 27? I think the importance of center is being undersold here.

Huberdeau - Howden - Marner
Pastrnak - Rooney - Rust

vs

Goodrow - Barkov - Kakko
Blais - Aho - Chytil

Would likely be a lot closer than it should be, despite the wingers having 4 superstars and the centers only having two.
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Oh, I meant right now.

And I think team A there would destroy team B.
 
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SA16 said:
Oh, I meant right now.

And I think team A there would destroy team B.
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The point of my post was to put them all at the same age/contract because we’re comparing Laf and Stuetzle.

So my point was essentially if all of these guys were 20, on ELC’s AND considering what my team has versus needs, I would take most of those centers over the higher scoring wingers.

My point was simply that I don’t think it’s “insanely stupid” to say I would trade Laf for Stuetzle and be okay with the trade even if Stuetzle only averaged 65 points and Laf broke out and averaged 75, because center depth is more important than the 10 extra points from the wing. Is that really insanely stupid? That I’d be perfectly fine with a 10 point production difference if Laf could be shipped out for a 20 year old, long term solution to our 1/2C situation?

Also, of course group A should beat group B, but it’s literally 4 v 2, with everyone else being replacement level. It shouldn’t even be close, but I imagine it would be closer than we’d expect.
 
Loki Dog 74 said:
The point of my post was to put them all at the same age/contract because we’re comparing Laf and Stuetzle.

So my point was essentially if all of these guys were 20, on ELC’s AND considering what my team has versus needs, I would take most of those centers over the higher scoring wingers.

My point was simply that I don’t think it’s “insanely stupid” to say I would trade Laf for Stuetzle and be okay with the trade even if Stuetzle only averaged 65 points and Laf broke out and averaged 75, because center depth is more important than the 10 extra points from the wing. Is that really insanely stupid? That I’d be perfectly fine with a 10 point production difference if Laf could be shipped out for a 20 year old, long term solution to our 1/2C situation?

Also, of course group A should beat group B, but it’s literally 4 v 2, with everyone else being replacement level. It shouldn’t even be close, but I imagine it would be closer than we’d expect.
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People won't agree with this but I would just take the wings and move them to center if need be. Rantanen has played plenty of center. He's filled in there every time MacKinnon has been out this year. At least 10 games. Landeskog may do the same (can't remember on him but he at least takes a ton of faceoffs). Aho used to be a wing then they decided he's a center so now he's a center. The Avs just happen to be more open to experimenting with things like that than other teams. They certainly don't NEED Rantanen to play center with MacKinnon out. They can easily just roll with Kadri/Compher/Newhook as their top 3 but they choose to do so. Some of those guys look the pure snipers (Pastrnak) probably wouldn't work but I'd best most could.

There is no scenario where I would ever want to swap Laf with Stutzle is Laf is a 75 point wing and Stutzle as a 65 point C without actually seeing if Laf can just play center in the first place. But I also don't agree with the premise that we even have much of a long term issue at C which is an entirely different point. I have zero issue going with Mika/cheap 2C like Chytil or whoever/Goodrow/Rooney or someone similar and accepting that there is no need for a high quality 2C since Panarin will drive the line anyway.
 
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SA16 said:
People won't agree with this but I would just take the wings and move them to center if need be. Rantanen has played plenty of center. He's filled in there every time MacKinnon has been out this year. At least 10 games. Landeskog may do the same (can't remember on him but he at least takes a ton of faceoffs). Aho used to be a wing then they decided he's a center so now he's a center. The Avs just happen to be more open to experimenting with things like that than other teams. They certainly don't NEED Rantanen to play center with MacKinnon out. They can easily just roll with Kadri/Compher/Newhook as their top 3 but they choose to do so. Some of those guys look the pure snipers (Pastrnak) probably wouldn't work but I'd best most could.

There is no scenario where I would ever want to swap Laf with Stutzle is Laf is a 75 point wing and Stutzle as a 65 point C without actually seeing if Laf can just play center in the first place. But I also don't agree with the premise that we even have much of a long term issue at C which is an entirely different point. I have zero issue going with Mika/cheap 2C like Chytil or whoever/Goodrow/Rooney or someone similar and accepting that there is no need for a high quality 2C since Panarin will drive the line anyway.
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Definitely not unheard of, and I think the only player off the top of my head it didn't 'work' with was Drouin with the Canadiens. Domi had his best season after being swapped to center, Giroux took off, Bennet is breaking out right now, Aho, Wheeler played a bunch of center last year and fared pretty much the same as at wing, Ryan Hartman was a RW most of his career and is doing great at center this season, Dubois was a winger when he was drafted--or up until his draft season and even mostly through that, Henrik Zetterberg was a LW, Kuznetsov, Bryan Little, Jamie Benn played a lot of center, Kevin Hayes...

I agree the fact that it doesn't happen more often is owed more to the generally unwillingness of teams to experiment or innovate.
 
TheDirtyH said:
Definitely not unheard of, and I think the only player off the top of my head it didn't 'work' with was Drouin with the Canadiens. Domi had his best season after being swapped to center, Giroux took off, Bennet is breaking out right now, Aho, Wheeler played a bunch of center last year and fared pretty much the same as at wing, Ryan Hartman was a RW most of his career and is doing great at center this season, Dubois was a winger when he was drafted--or up until his draft season and even mostly through that, Henrik Zetterberg was a LW, Kuznetsov, Bryan Little, Jamie Benn played a lot of center, Kevin Hayes...

I agree the fact that it doesn't happen more often is owed more to the generally unwillingness of teams to experiment or innovate.
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Rick Nash and Patrick Kane are a couple others to add to Drouin.
 
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Plenty don't work. Plenty do. Never know if you don't try it.

I'm assuming Kane as a C was 11-12 when he took faceoffs? I wouldn't really say it didn't work. He scores 2.32 pts/60 which is the the same rate he scored at the next 3 years on the wing anyway and his on ice numbers look great then.
 
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Loki Dog 74 said:
So looking at the last 3 years in total, all forwards, points per game played, here’s a list of wingers averaging about 10-20 more points per season than the centers. For arguments sake, let’s assume all are the same age and price, like Laf and Stutz. You tell me which group you’d take and if I’m insanely stupid.

Huberdeau
Marchand
Rantanen
Marner
Panarin
Pastrnak

Barkov
Bergeron
Aho
Zibanejad
Point
Eichel

In a vacuum that’s a list of some of the best wingers in the world, but in terms of building a winner and trying to contend - if you were told you could have any two wingers or any two centers on these lists, I believe you’re taking 2 centers all day.

How about Kyle Conner, Max Paccioretty, JT Miller and Bryan Rust? All are between 1.01 and .97 points per game over the past 3 years. Do you take them over Dylan Larkin, Elias Lindholm, Barzal, Pettersson, Couturier, ROR, Kadri, Kuznetsov? It’s at the very least close, but again, those centers all average .85-.8 points per game.

There’s your 15 point difference between a winger and a center. I’m missing the part where I’m “insanely stupid”.
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Great work in your reply....Case closed !
 
I'm not bashing the kid. I remain hopeful but before people talk about 65 points and 80 points he has to get to 35 points. I was not surprised by a slow rookie year but I was hoping he would have a more rewarding second year. I hope in this offseason he works on skating and puck handling 6 hours a day. I think his hands in tight are good and shot are good.
 
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FireDavidQuinn said:
He plays like 15 second a game on the power play if hes lucky
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This is why I always roll my eyes at the people who don’t watch our games but say “Yeah he has XYZ total minutes on the power play but never produces!” The first line literally plays the first minute and a half on the power play, and the second line comes on with just enough time to maybe set up for one shot if they’re lucky.
 
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