Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Anthony5967]

What about these kids who are outproducing Kakko/Lafrenière?

Lundell (FLA)
Jarvis (CAR)
Newhook (COL)
McMichael (WSH)
Tomasino (NSH)
Boldy (MIN)

McMichael? Jarvis? They’re hardly lighting it up on the same level as a Zegras or Raymond. Boldy has been really good. Tomasino, same thing as McM and Jarvis. Here’s the other thing, though, Lafrenière, until now, was playing with a guy that hadn’t scored much all year in Chytil and with Gauthier, a guy with 3 all year. What assists is he piling up? He set up G a million times and he doesn’t finish. He set two guys up last game too for grade-A chances, no finish. He could’ve scored last game, except it was blocked by his own teammate. He’s extremely snake bitten, as well. Consistent minutes with Zib and Kreider will do wonders for him. He’s already starting to look a lot more confident.

 

[Bluto]

I am still in the camp that laf would benefit immensely from some time in the AHL getting 22 minutes a night on the top line, pp1, and pk1. But it won’t happen.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

He's just so frustrating, every game you look at him and think that he could have popped two goals and instead you look at the score sheet and there's nothing there, again. And stupid shit like in the last game when he had the puck in the corner and he looked up at the point and then still passed it there even though both defensemen were at the bench changing.

That's nerves. It's setting in for him, sadly, that he's not very good. That's why him him him he made that weird comment about being "good enough" to play right wing.

 

[bleedblue94]

On the 3rd line I saw that. With Zibs and Kreids, I don't. He setup a bunch of grade A chances. What more can we honestly expect from him?

Even Panarin in this system/season looks similar to what you described.

Like I've been saying this is way beyond a personnel issue IMO.

I mean it always seems to be a coach issue here right? Never the players eh?

I watch other players from the same draft and they flash that high end skill. I just don't see it from laf at this level, yet

 

[duhmetreE]

What about these kids who are outproducing Kakko/Lafrenière?

Lundell (FLA)
Jarvis (CAR)
Newhook (COL)
McMichael (WSH)
Tomasino (NSH)
Boldy (MIN)

I firmly believe if we were to switch any of these kids for Laf and Kakko we'd have similar results.... as in the kids on this team would struggle and Laf and Kakko look like top picks

Laffy would have 40pts on Florida.

 

[bleedblue94]

I am still in the camp that laf would benefit immensely from some time in the AHL getting 22 minutes a night on the top line, pp1, and pk1. But it won’t happen.

, And this is the part of optics vs player development that drives me nuts. Everyone knows he would benefit from a mega confidence boost and a little extra time to try some things down there again. Just to get the puck to go into the net consistently for a couple weeks, but no no no you can't send a 1oa pick down to the ahl...

 

[duhmetreE]

I mean it always seems to be a coach issue here right? Never the players eh?

I watch other players from the same draft and they flash that high end skill. I just don't see it from laf at this level, yet

That's what I'm starting to question... Why does the system look similar to Quinn's? Maybe it's an org mandate or guideline. We played much different under Quinn before Covid.

We know what Gallant's system typically looks like.... and this ain't it. We didn't really have anything to go off of for Quinn, so we ( I ) assumed this was Quinn hockey.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I firmly believe if we were to switch any of these kids for Laf and Kakko we'd have similar results.... as in the kids on this team would struggle and Laf and Kakko look like top picks

Laffy would have 40pts on Florida.

Bingo.

 

[bleedblue94]

That's what I'm starting to question... Why does the system look similar to Quinn's? Maybe it's an org mandate or guideline. We played much different under Quinn before Covid.

We know what Gallant's system typically looks like.... and this ain't it. We didn't really have anything to go off of for Quinn, so we ( I ) assumed this was Quinn hockey.

Nah, it's probably from a combo of our top players dictating play style and also a style that matches the strengths of the players the org invested in.

The most telling thing to me in the past couple years is when strome virtually said in the media that Quinn needed to not tell them what to do bc the players knew better how they should play the game. It's been the same thing ever since. The only kind of coaches that break that are the dickhead guys like Babcock and Torts, but if you say tort's name around here some people immediately get the runs

 

[IDvsEGO]

A lot of that stems from the fact that there are 20 year olds and even 19 year olds playing in the NHL right now on worse teams and with more points than Laf in half as much games. I'm not one for paranoia, but I think the concern is warranted for a guy who went #1 in the draft and has more penalty minutes than points to date.

Wait players who get more ice time get more points? And players on bad teams get more ice time? So the rangers should start sucking so that Laf can score 35 right?

 

[Machinehead]

Posted this on the main boards, thought you guys would be interested:

Lafreniere still doesn't have a powerplay point in his NHL career.

While I don't think he's looked particularly good there, it's hard to look good. The Rangers really stack their first unit in terms of personnel and time.

Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin, Strome, and Fox have combined for 95 powerplay points this year. The entire rest of the roster has combined for 8.

Of those 95 points, Strome only has 8 despite getting fed all that time, so why they continue to go with Strome on his off-side over giving the lefty Lafreniere a look is beyond my comprehension.

 

[will1066]

Hat trick tonight. Bin it.

 

[ReddestRum]

When bad teams have a significant lack of high-end talent, those kids are exposed to bigger mins and PP time. Ducks, Wings, Sens, etc. Which team has a PP of Kreider-Zib-Strome with Panarin and Fox on it? None of them even come close.

Maybe, and stay with me here.. a lot of these players are getting minutes and PP time because they're just better? Maybe perhaps we did bomb on Laf? I think showing signs of brightness in talent from Laf every once in awhile is good for you guys, but the fact of the matter is that Laf needs to start performing even in the range of average/mediocre players. which I believe he's pretty mediocre currently.

Of Raymond's 39 points, only 13 are on the PP.
Of Zegras' 38 points, only 10 are on the PP.

Just as an example, these guys still perform great at even strength. As for TOI, players aren't just given minutes just to see if they can perform "okay", but those minutes are earned. You telling me that Laf has earned the right to have top game minutes?

 

[ReddestRum]

Wait players who get more ice time get more points? And players on bad teams get more ice time? So the rangers should start sucking so that Laf can score 35 right?

LOL. Come on now. Lundell, who is a rookie, who is 20, and who plays on a VERY good team still has the stats to back up that he's eons better than Laf AND he's averaging just about the same minutes and shifts. It does not only apply to good young players on bad teams, but good young players on good teams.

 

[IDvsEGO]

LOL. Come on now. Lundell, who is a rookie, who is 20, and who plays on a VERY good team still has the stats to back up that he's eons better than Laf AND he's averaging just about the same minutes and shifts. It does not apply to good young players on bad teams, but good young players on good teams.

Lundell also started playing on the top 6 almost immediately, and with wingers that were better than laf’s common line mates.
Laf is / was blocked on the left side by essentially two all stars. Lundell never was.

Let’s see if Laf finished the season in the top 6 and then see what his numbers look like.

 

[ReddestRum]

Lundell also started playing on the top 6 almost immediately, and with wingers that were better than laf’s common line mates.
Laf is / was blocked on the left side by essentially two all stars. Lundell never was.

Let’s see if Laf finished the season in the top 6 and then see what his numbers look like.

I mean.. I don't know what to say anymore:

It's because Laf doesn't get enough minutes.
It's because Laf doesn't get enough PP time because the 1st unit is stacked.
It's because Laf is being held back on the left side.
It's because Laf isn't playing top 6 minutes.
It's because our team is so stacked that he doesn't have room to shine.
Other players doing well on good/bad teams would look significantly worse with us.

Cool man. I defended Laf on the main boards months ago, but I think my concerns now are still valid. I want the guy to shine as much as anyone else, but the kid is actually regressing in production from his first season. Also, the myriad of excuses you guys are throwing around for his piss poor performance will just keep happening for the rest of the season, into his 3rd, then 4th. Whatever. We'll see.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Lundell also started playing on the top 6 almost immediately, and with wingers that were better than laf’s common line mates.
Laf is / was blocked on the left side by essentially two all stars. Lundell never was.

Let’s see if Laf finished the season in the top 6 and then see what his numbers look like.

Lundell is the 3rd line center behind Barkov and Bennett.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I mean.. I don't know what to say anymore:

It's because Laf doesn't get enough minutes.
It's because Laf doesn't get enough PP time because the 1st unit is stacked.
It's because Laf is being held back on the left side.
It's because Laf isn't playing top 6 minutes.
It's because our team is so stacked that he doesn't have room to shine.
Other players doing well on good/bad teams would look significantly worse with us.

Cool man. I defended Laf on the main boards months ago, but I think my concerns now are still valid. I want the guy to shine as much as anyone else, but the kid is actually regressing in production from his first season. Also, the myriad of excuses you guys are throwing around for his piss poor performance will just keep happening for the rest of the season, into his 3rd, then 4th. Whatever. We'll see.

I’m saying he’s looked good the last few games in the top 6, and see how his numbers look now that he’s gained some confidence and is playing better.

 

[CasusBelli]

I mean.. I don't know what to say anymore:

It's because Laf doesn't get enough minutes.
It's because Laf doesn't get enough PP time because the 1st unit is stacked.
It's because Laf is being held back on the left side.
It's because Laf isn't playing top 6 minutes.
It's because our team is so stacked that he doesn't have room to shine.
Other players doing well on good/bad teams would look significantly worse with us.

Cool man. I defended Laf on the main boards months ago, but I think my concerns now are still valid. I want the guy to shine as much as anyone else, but the kid is actually regressing in production from his first season. Also, the myriad of excuses you guys are throwing around for his piss poor performance will just keep happening for the rest of the season, into his 3rd, then 4th. Whatever. We'll see.

Exactly how I feel mate.

 

[mas0764]

I’d be interested to hear his advanced stats the last few games, I bet they are better.

 

[bleedblue94]

A lot of people talk about his playmaking, he has 12 assists in 1.5 seasons. 9 last year and 3 assists this year. That is alarming and I don't want to hear nonsense about linemates, Greg f***ing mckegg has 3 assists in 29 games, and reaves has 7 assists this year among other examples. No matter how it is spun the lack of production is alarming.

And it's always someone else's fault, always...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I mean.. I don't know what to say anymore:

I understand your concerns, and share them.

It's because Laf doesn't get enough minutes.

Doesn't explain P/60

It's because Laf doesn't get enough PP time because the 1st unit is stacked.

Doesn't explain even-strength production

It's because Laf is being held back on the left side.

It's because Laf isn't playing top 6 minutes.

Jarvis, Newhook, Lundell, Robertson etc play on contenders as well behind better players.

It's because our team is so stacked that he doesn't have room to shine.

See above.

Other players doing well on good/bad teams would look significantly worse with us.

This x1000

If you put Zegras and Lundell on this team, they aren't close to the players they are in Anaheim/Florida. This org simply doesn't know how to handle kids at that age.

 

[Shadowtron]

I mean.. I don't know what to say anymore:

It's because Laf doesn't get enough minutes.
It's because Laf doesn't get enough PP time because the 1st unit is stacked.
It's because Laf is being held back on the left side.
It's because Laf isn't playing top 6 minutes.
It's because our team is so stacked that he doesn't have room to shine.
Other players doing well on good/bad teams would look significantly worse with us.

Cool man. I defended Laf on the main boards months ago, but I think my concerns now are still valid. I want the guy to shine as much as anyone else, but the kid is actually regressing in production from his first season. Also, the myriad of excuses you guys are throwing around for his piss poor performance will just keep happening for the rest of the season, into his 3rd, then 4th. Whatever. We'll see.

My thinking is, cream always rises to the top. No matter who his linemates are, no matter the icetime, an extremely talented player should be shining. I mean, it’s not like he’s a wrecking ball out there but the two pilons he skates with can’t take or make a pass. The guy is largely invisible most games.

 

[ReddestRum]

My thinking is, cream always rises to the top. No matter who his linemates are, no matter the icetime, an extremely talented player should be shining. I mean, it’s not like he’s a wrecking ball out there but the two pilons he skates with can’t take or make a pass. The guy is largely invisible most games.

Absolutely. Good players roll with whatever is given to them and they make their own luck. It's great to have players around you help you be the best you can be, but if you can't do that for yourself then it doesn't matter who you play with, how many minutes, shifts, and PP time you have.

 

[jay from jersey]

Posted this on the main boards, thought you guys would be interested:

Lafreniere still doesn't have a powerplay point in his NHL career.

While I don't think he's looked particularly good there, it's hard to look good. The Rangers really stack their first unit in terms of personnel and time.

Zibanejad, Kreider, Panarin, Strome, and Fox have combined for 95 powerplay points this year. The entire rest of the roster has combined for 8.

Of those 95 points, Strome only has 8 despite getting fed all that time, so why they continue to go with Strome on his off-side over giving the lefty Lafreniere a look is beyond my comprehension.

To keep his bff happy...
LaF needs to be on 1PP by the start of next season.

someone needs to give LaF some honest advice and tell him he needs to fix his legs and work them out more if he wants to be an NHL threat.
If that doesn’t happen, I expect more of the same