Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Taluss]

With each day that passes, Kent Hughes will laugh even harder if Drury calls him up asking for their 1st for Lafreniere. I think Montreal would have done this last summer. But now?

Not their first but Panthers 1st I think they would do

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

No benefit to moving him now. They need to move a LW to open a top 6 spot for him. Kick him in the pool and say time to sink or swim.

I’d much rather do that than trade him for peanuts

 

[Taluss]

No benefit to moving him now. They need to move a LW to open a top 6 spot for him. Kick him in the pool and say time to sink or swim.

I’d much rather do that than trade him for peanuts

That seems next to impossible to do

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

So what is it about this organization in your opinion that keeps 1st/2nd overalls from developing?
The rangers buy talent... that doesn't work... they rebuild and draft 1st/2nd overal, 6th OA, etc.

What does work here? Starting to believe it's not hockey.

#MOAR GRIT!

They're not feared on the ice! We need an enforcer! Trading Ryan Reaves was a mistake! We need Tortorella back to instill discipline! What this team needs is more Ryan Callahans blocking shots!

Never mind that's how you get your scorers injured, you don't score goals that way, and it's also a great way to waste 7 games beating the #8 and #7 seeds only to lose to the #6 seed in the third round of the easiest Cup bracket in NHL history when your team is worn out and beat up. That's Rangers' hockey! Black and Blueshirts, baby! WOO!

And if you don't sign lots of free agents to BRING THE GRIT, you're doing it wrong. All these high draft pick kids are soft, especially those Europeans Kakko and Kravtsov. Lafreniere too...he's honorary European with that last name, I mean everyone knows French Canadians are soft too! They're ALL BUSTS. Even Buchnevich was a bust, too. So glad we traded that bum because if more people were like Barclay Goodrow, we'd all have rings for every finger by now. And you can't blame Blais, I mean it's only been 40 games with 0 NHL goals but DUDE HAD A KNEE INJURY. At least him and Trocheck ACTUALLY HIT PEOPLE! I wish we had Strome and Stepan back. Needs some good American kids and some Ontarians, Albertans, British Columbians, and Manitobans to show these softees how to win!

Does that about cover what the fanbase and ownership seem to think "works" here? Because the 25 year highlight reel of this organization consists almost entirely of badly built teams watching Henrik Lundqvist (and last year Shesterkin) make ridiculous saves they had no business making, and calling the only players with the skill or potential to score against the best teams in the league soft.

I mean we were right there guys. We won two 7-game series with two backup goalies (and even third string goalies) playing for the other team. We were so close to the Cup you could feel it.

Grit hasn't won a championship since 2003.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

That seems next to impossible to do

Not really

Panarin is impossible yes, but they shouldn’t be moving him anyways

Drury could trade Kreider tomorrow if they wanted to, but he doesn’t have the balls to make a move like that.

So we tread water and hope things just fix themselves and continue to waste our 1st overall pick

 

[IronBloodedLion]

So what is it about this organization in your opinion that keeps 1st/2nd overalls from developing?
The rangers buy talent... that doesn't work... they rebuild and draft 1st/2nd overal, 6th OA, etc.

What does work here? Starting to believe it's not hockey.

It’s definitely more than hockey.

 

[CLW]

With each day that passes, Kent Hughes will laugh even harder if Drury calls him up asking for their 1st for Lafreniere. I think Montreal would have done this last summer. But now?

Hughes is not the only astute GM whose shark teeth are gleaming in anticipation of a desperate Drury at the other end of the line.

 

[CLW]

It’s definitely more than hockey.

I dunno. Caufield was burnt to a crisp under "dino ass" Ducharme before Marty St. Louis resurrected him, Dach too in pedohawk land.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The only way they move Lafreniere is if he asks to leave.

 

[RUNYR]

theres no way he's this bad on his own.

Or maybe just maybe , he’s just not that good? Fans in hockey always have this expectation that every top pick has to turn out to what their draft position expectations are. Players can be busts. I get it, sometimes it takes a bit longer for players to develop in the NHL, but in any other sport a player like this would be labeled a bust at this point. It’s time to stop making excuses and maybe come to the realization that Laf is just not going to live up to a 1st overall pick.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Or maybe just maybe , he’s just not that good? Fans in hockey always have this expectation that every top pick has to turn out to what their draft position expectations are. Players can be busts. I get it, sometimes it takes a bit longer for players to develop in the NHL, but in any other sport a player like this would be labeled a bust at this point. It’s time to stop making excuses and maybe come to the realization that Laf is just not going to live up to a 1st overall pick.

Sorry, I have a hard time believing that when the consensus was neither draft year was a weak year.

This is not Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Patrik Stefan, or Nail Yaukpov.

And back to back years in a row?

No, this is an organization that saw these players come into the league as 18 year olds capable of 30 point seasons playing buried on the depth chart - which is entirely common in the trajectory of most 18 year old future superstars - and has done nothing to advance their growth beyond that in 2.5 and 3.5 seasons respectively.

 

[ReddestRum]

He should be playing 18 to 20 consistently with more pp timr or nothing changes.

Look, at the end of the day, Laf is the one with the puck on his stick. The coaches give him direction, but making plays is up to the player. Now, a coach can say, "Take is easy on the penalties" or "No turnovers on the blueline" but they are not going to go out there and tell a player how to intimately play their game. There's a system that all players adhere to, but they are free to create within that system as long as it doesn't repeatedly cost the team. And yes, vets have more leeway. Especially vets that can and have put points on the board. That's hockey and it's been that way then and now.

Points aside, Laf doesn't show any IQ with the puck. None. His battles are weak and the kid has zero speed. He doesn't look improved in any manner of speaking from the season prior. Even for young players that don't put a lot of points on the board, you have to show a certain no-how and tenacity to show you're worth the time over the next guy.

You and others here want Laf to consistently get more times and top PP time, while others like me want him to just consistently look like he belongs in the NHL. Not flashes of being decent for a game and then absolutely invisible the next several.

You can blame our coaching staff all you want (and I do understand that there might be development issues within the organization), but it's Laf playing those games and I'm certain if you put a kid his age who is blossoming in the NHL right now on the lines that Laf is playing, with the TOI he gets, they would look like the leaders on those lines. Standouts. Players that drive the play instead of it just being another pathetic shift. Those kinds of players don't need to be forced into the top lines needing to be surrounded by good players/vets in order to prop them up. They are the good players on those lines.

We'll see what he looks like next game. Looking at his stats, he goes 4-5 games without a point on average before putting something on the board.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Look, at the end of the day, Laf is the one with the puck on his stick. The coaches give him direction, but making plays is up to the player. Now, a coach can say, "Take is easy on the penalties" or "No turnovers on the blueline" but they are not going to go out there and tell a player how to intimately play their game. There's a system that all players adhere to, but they are free to create within that system as long as it doesn't repeatedly cost the team. And yes, vets have more leeway. Especially vets that can and have put points on the board. That's hockey and it's been that way then and now.

Points aside, Laf doesn't show any IQ with the puck. None. His battles are weak and the kid has zero speed. He doesn't look improved in any manner of speaking from the season prior. Even for young players that don't put a lot of points on the board, you have to show a certain no-how and tenacity to show you're worth the time over the next guy.

You and others here want Laf to consistently get more times and top PP time, while others like me want him to just consistently look like he belongs in the NHL. Not flashes of being decent for a game and then absolutely invisible the next several.

You can blame our coaching staff all you want (and I do understand that there might be development issues within the organization), but it's Laf playing those games and I'm certain if you put a kid his age who is blossoming in the NHL right now on the lines that Laf is playing, with the TOI he gets, they would look like the leaders on those lines. Standouts. Players that drive the play instead of it just being another pathetic shift. Those kinds of players don't need to be forced into the top lines needing to be surrounded by good players/vets in order to prop them up. They are the good players on those lines.

We'll see what he looks like next game. Looking at his stats, he goes 4-5 games without a point on average before putting something on the board.

Rangers forwards - even strength scoring leaders:

Panarin 5-10-15
Zibanejad 4-10-14
Kreider 8-5-13
Chytil 4-7-11
Lafreniere 3-7-10
Goodrow 6-3-9
Kakko 4-4-8
Trocheck 3-4-7
Vesey 2-5-7
Gauthier 4-1-5
Blais 0-5-5
Carpenter 1-2-3
Kravtsov 1-1-2

Considering the kids have mostly played on inferior lines, I'd say they're outperforming the hell out of Vesey and Trocheck, yet both of those remain firmly entrenched in the top 6.

 

[xsniper11x]

Look, at the end of the day, Laf is the one with the puck on his stick. The coaches give him direction, but making plays is up to the player. Now, a coach can say, "Take is easy on the penalties" or "No turnovers on the blueline" but they are not going to go out there and tell a player how to intimately play their game. There's a system that all players adhere to, but they are free to create within that system as long as it doesn't repeatedly cost the team. And yes, vets have more leeway. Especially vets that can and have put points on the board. That's hockey and it's been that way then and now.

Points aside, Laf doesn't show any IQ with the puck. None. His battles are weak and the kid has zero speed. He doesn't look improved in any manner of speaking from the season prior. Even for young players that don't put a lot of points on the board, you have to show a certain no-how and tenacity to show you're worth the time over the next guy.

The problem we’re having is we’re trying to assess how 20-21y old kids are developing during a season where 90% of the team, of all ages, positions and experience levels, are materially underperforming. Whatever systemic or team cultural issue exists that is dragging down $40mm worth of established veterans will easily do 2-3x the damage to less established players.

When Rangers looked confident in last year’s POs, the kids looked confident too. When the team started to lose that confidence, the kids looked worse (and Kakko was scratched). There is a lot more to unpack here than “Laf looks like crap.” He sure does, along w/ Panarin, Zib, Miller, Trouba and go down the list.

 

[zlev]

maybe Laf will get offer sheeted by Montreal, might be the best for both teams

 

[RangersFan1994]

The only way they move Lafreniere is if he asks to leave.

I wont be shocked if that happened already.

 

[CLW]

I wont be shocked if that happened already.

There's is way too much potential money being wasted for the Laffy camp not to be extremely upset with what's going on right now.

 

[Kords]

There's is way too much potential money being wasted for the Laffy camp not to be extremely upset with what's going on right now.

His dad was the only one in the family section not wearing any Rangers merch that first Sens home game last week. I'd be shocked if he wasn't annoyed with this org.

 

[huerter]

Rangers forwards - even strength scoring leaders:

Panarin 5-10-15
Zibanejad 4-10-14
Kreider 8-5-13
Chytil 4-7-11
Lafreniere 3-7-10
Goodrow 6-3-9
Kakko 4-4-8
Trocheck 3-4-7
Vesey 2-5-7
Gauthier 4-1-5
Blais 0-5-5
Carpenter 1-2-3
Kravtsov 1-1-2

Considering the kids have mostly played on inferior lines, I'd say they're outperforming the hell out of Vesey and Trocheck, yet both of those remain firmly entrenched in the top 6.

points schmoints (no sarcasm)

 

[mas0764]

Why is it not registering here that the "vets" that everyone wants to start moving have NMC's?

Are people saying that Drury should begin to ask them to wave the no trade clause that was given to them?

And who can eat those contracts for high draft picks? Or are people here implying that a team is going to give up core players with similar contracts for the Rangers core players?

Yes we should be pressuring them to waive. Not sure why that isn’t registering here.

Start giving them undesirable side responsibilities like cleaning the toilets at MSG or something until they waive.

With each day that passes, Kent Hughes will laugh even harder if Drury calls him up asking for their 1st for Lafreniere. I think Montreal would have done this last summer. But now?

I’m committed to seeing it through. Can’t trade Lafreniere. Try to make it work. Again. Do something different. Get another coach. Implement another system.

 

[mas0764]

Or maybe just maybe , he’s just not that good? Fans in hockey always have this expectation that every top pick has to turn out to what their draft position expectations are. Players can be busts. I get it, sometimes it takes a bit longer for players to develop in the NHL, but in any other sport a player like this would be labeled a bust at this point. It’s time to stop making excuses and maybe come to the realization that Laf is just not going to live up to a 1st overall pick.

If he was the only one this would be believable. But we are 0 for 5 with Laf, Kakko, Krav, Chytil, and Andersson.

Including multiple disputes with players (Anderson, Kravtsov) and another player who has insinuated to media that things are confusing here (Kakko).

It’s not just the player. The team has a problem.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

If he was the only one this would be believable. But we are 0 for 5 with Laf, Kakko, Krav, Chytil, and Andersson.

Including multiple disputes with players (Anderson, Kravtsov) and another player who has insinuated to media that things are confusing here (Kakko).

It’s not just the player. The team has a problem.

They have a "process" dang it! It's never worked, but they have it, and they're stickin' to it!

 

[mas0764]

I dunno. Caufield was burnt to a crisp under "dino ass" Ducharme before Marty St. Louis resurrected him, Dach too in pedohawk land.

So we need St Louis to come be our coach.

 

[CLW]

So we need St Louis to come be our coach.

St. Louis was smart enough not to get near NYR.

 

[duhmetreE]

I dunno. Caufield was burnt to a crisp under "dino ass" Ducharme before Marty St. Louis resurrected him, Dach too in pedohawk land.

cOaChInG dOeSnT mAtTeR