Value of: Alexander Ovechkin

[Kolzilla]

in retrospect i suggested tyler seguin for alexander ovechkin ( washington retaining the difference on the contract) straight up a few years ago when i saw the writing on the wall that seguin was on his way out of boston

in hindsight i think the deal could have helped both teams.

ovechkin is like joe thornton was in boston... the leader. the example. if your leader isnt coachable its a problem.

obviously ovechkin doesnt need coaching but many of his teammates do. an uncoachable leader isnt good for a team that wants to win.

will ovechkin follow yzermans example in his later career and become coachable? perhaps... but a trade might be a smarter move

traded guys arent the leader. see phil kessel as an example. traded guys can march to their own drum and it doesnt upset the other players on the team

but the new team needs strong leadership.

and needs the assets washington will want.

hard to make this work

I don't know what makes you think Ovie isn't coachable. In fact, I'd say he's shown over the past few years he's very coachable. Maybe that word has different meanings for both of us.

 

[koalabear9301]

At 31 years old, I don't know if he can change but Ovechkin needs to learn different ways to score. Waiting for that pass across for the one-timer that everyone knows is coming is too easy to cover in the playoffs.

Except that's not the only way he scores. A lot of his goals this year came from being in the right place at the right time, as well as a few good dangles.

 

[StephenPeat]

Correction: 4 teams failed to knock off the Penguins.

So the other 26 teams can claim they should have won? What exactly is your point?

30 teams had an opportunity per the rules of the game to play for the championship, 29 teams did not win. If thats all you see there are 29 teams of losers. On some level this is correct, how does it inform our view of this player, I doubt it's the way you'd like. There can be only one winner, the margin of error is as miniscule as the odds of victory. One player has little power to truly change that outcome. In the era before the Salary Cap, I'd have agreed but with the parity in the league today any team can win any given year and a Stanley Cup winner can fail to make the playoffs the next season, it happens quite frequently actually. The power of individual players is being eroded by the development and implementation of systems of offense and defense. I could see the Stars, Panthers, or Lightning winning a Cup soon. Can you name a better leader on any of those teams than Ovechkin? If those teams win it'll be because of their depth not the superiority or ethereal concepts of "team play" of players who are fundamentally individuals.

 

[StephenPeat]

Well, first you said that it would be a straight downgrade, I asked if you were sure, you then seemed to say that Giroux is slightly better than Backstrom, which didn't sound quite as convincing as "straight downgrade", and also which I don't think is hypothetical at all. If I had to pick one or the other, I pick Giroux without hesitation.
No argument on OV better than Jake, although Jake is 5 years younger.

I mean, middle of July on the trade board thread titled Alexander Ovechkin, can't take things too seriously.

Backstrom has 642 pts in 652 games . Giroux has 517 in 574. I'd also give Backstrom the edge defensively. Straight downgrade, not hypothetical at all..

 

[StephenPeat]

Ovechkin might have outplayed Sid and Malkin in that series but he has yet to have a defining series, one that you can point to to say that he was great and came up clutch. All the great players have it, Crosby and Malkin have lots of it, Ovie does not.

Yes it's a team game, but Ovechkin also played for the best and most dominant team last season, and it was not really even close. Fact is, Ovechkin and the Caps choked that series as they were heavily favoured, but nice to know now that the Caps were complete underdogs.... Another fact is that when it was all on the line Ovechkin proved once again what a one trick pony he is and was easily shut down. It's all nice to be a regular season super hero but it's those specific moments that distinguish the legends from the pretenders. Right now, Ovechkin is still very much a pretender. If he couldn't get it done with a powerhouse team last season, not exactly sure what kind of team he's going to be able to do it on...

Based on this rudimentary, impossible to quantify, and largely simply ignorant analysis, Phil Kessel is a better team player than Ovechkin. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous.

 

[StephenPeat]

Crosby is better offensively, defensively and even has the advantage in Hawks fans intangibles. He's also cheaper, 2 years younger and plays the significantly more valuable position. Doesn't need elite linemates either, Ovechkin has trouble putting up points with Backstrom and Oshie

As good as Ovechkin has been, he's still 3rd in career ppg behind Crosby and Malkin. That gap looks like it will only increase.

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact that the other two players play on THE SAME TEAM. I'm also going to guess Ovechkin might have a Cup if Phil Kessel was on the Caps third line.

As to the bolded, you can't be serious.

Ovechkin has outscored Malkin every season they've been in the league together but one, being healthy and in the lineup is important to team success, right.

 

[PensRedwings2887]

That was one of the best performances by Ovie I've ever seen and I'm not a Caps fan. He's one of the players that I'd like to see hoist a cup before he retires.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

How much is a 31 year old one dimensional, declining winger that fails to make his teammates better and has choked time and time again in the POs worth? Oh, and that is on a terrible contract to boot...

I think people would be shocked at the return if he were ever traded.

OV might arguably be the best pure goal scorer in NHL history and suddenly his contract is terrible? Come on

OV still scores 50 goals in a time where a ppg player is top 5 in the league pretty much

The year Gretzky scored his career high 87 goal there were 50, FIFTY, guys who were ppg+

 

[PensRedwings2887]

His most recent choke job was this year when everything was on the line against Pitts. Clutch players are able to change and adapt when things aren't going their way, Ovechkin simply tries to hammer it and hammer it some more.

He also only scores that many goals because the Caps gameplan around getting it to Ovie whenever possible, and he milks the PP for everything he can... Yes he has a lethal shot, but that lethal shot hasn't won him jack all and has never come close to either. If he doesn't change his game to be less selfish, and if the Caps don't have a plan B that is not get it to Ovie and pray he scores, it will stay that way.

I'm not a Caps fan, but I watched the entire Pens-Caps series. The Caps outplayed the Pens majority of the series, the problem was the Caps couldn't find ways to score against Murray. Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Oshie all had a great series, however, what happened to lines 2-4? Kuznetzov their leading point scorer in the regular season was invisible, Mr. Clutch Justin Williams was M.I.A. and so was Mojo. This honestly was one of the best playoff performances by Ovie. He did everything in his power to help Washington succeed. Ovie's definitely nowhere near declining, he's still a 50 goal-scorer, and I'd take him on the Pens any day of the week. 50-goal scorers don't grow on trees.

 

[Call me betty*]

No ****ing way. I'll take Geno every single day over Ovechkin. Give Geno some solid linemates and watch him tear up the league...

 

[PensRedwings2887]

This is a solid, well-reasoned, logical, and seemingly unbiased analysis (though I disaree the Caps outplayed the Pens, the Pens played to their strengths and Murray was solid, I think the two teams played nearly evenly). All that said, opinions and insight like yours apparently have little place in this thread.

Someone chewed out Ovie and the Caps in another thread and I basically said sumtin similar to this. It was still an amazing series. Tbch, I'm one of the few Pens fans that think the Pens got lucky in the 2nd round.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

No ****ing way. I'll take Geno every single day over Ovechkin. Give Geno some solid linemates and watch him tear up the league...

Solid linemates or not, lets not pretend PIT doesnt completely load up the power play with him and crosby, letang, and kessel together most of the time

he isnt starving for opportunity to produce

 

[DearDiary]

Solid linemates or not, lets not pretend PIT doesnt completely load up the power play with him and crosby, letang, and kessel together most of the time

he isnt starving for opportunity to produce

So 5on5 play doesn't matter to you?

Pens powerplay was also 16th in the league. Among playoff teams, only Tampa/Islanders/Panthers were worse

 

[DearDiary]

I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact that the other two players play on THE SAME TEAM. I'm also going to guess Ovechkin might have a Cup if Phil Kessel was on the Caps third line.

As to the bolded, you can't be serious.

Ovechkin has outscored Malkin every season they've been in the league together but one, being healthy and in the lineup is important to team success, right.

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie
vs
Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist

Ovechkin only managed 2 Even strength points, despite having an easy matchup against a vastly weaker line in Crosby's.



The Caps could also have depth if Ovechkin was capable of playing with weaker linemates like Williams and Beagle.

Ovechkin-Beagle-Williams
vs
Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist

Then put Backstrom against Malkin and Kuzy against Kessel

 

[Blitzago*]

OV might arguably be the best pure goal scorer in NHL history and suddenly his contract is terrible? Come on

OV still scores 50 goals in a time where a ppg player is top 5 in the league pretty much

The year Gretzky scored his career high 87 goal there were 50, FIFTY, guys who were ppg+

You should re-check your info, Gretzky's career high is 92 goals.

 

[koalabear9301]

You should re-check your info, Gretzky's career high is 92 goals.

That really doesn't change the point he's trying to make.

 

[koalabear9301]

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Oshie
vs
Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist

Ovechkin only managed 2 Even strength points, despite having an easy matchup against a vastly weaker line in Crosby's.



The Caps could also have depth if Ovechkin was capable of playing with weaker linemates like Williams and Beagle.

Ovechkin-Beagle-Williams
vs
Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist

Then put Backstrom against Malkin and Kuzy against Kessel

Ovechkin is definitely capable of playing with weaker linemates. Maybe not "Joey Crabb on the first line" levels of bad (thanks Oates), but an Ovechkin/Beagle/Williams line would work just fine.

 

[Moorpheus*]

Jvr
Nylander
2017 1st

 

[DearDiary]

Ovechkin is definitely capable of playing with weaker linemates. Maybe not "Joey Crabb on the first line" levels of bad (thanks Oates), but an Ovechkin/Beagle/Williams line would work just fine.

Center is the most important forward position for a reason. You can put a #1C with weak line mates against any top line and they'd be able to control the damage. But you cannot say the same for an elite winger with a weak center. Ovechkin could score by himself, but he cannot cover for the weakness in his linemate's responsibilities like a center can.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

wow some are clueless about Ovechkin

isnt good in the playoffs? what??

 

[Man Bear Pig]

How much is a 31 year old one dimensional, declining winger that fails to make his teammates better and has choked time and time again in the POs worth? Oh, and that is on a terrible contract to boot...

I think people would be shocked at the return if he were ever traded.

Playoff choker? 82 points in 84 games. That post is sarcastic right?

 

[lanceuppercut75]

I wonder if Washington would be interested in Ekman-Larsson plus (in this fantasy land where OV is on the trade block)? If Chychrun comes in and quickly becomes a top pairing guy it could make sense for Arizona.

Ovechkin + Orpik (dump)
for
EkmanLarsson + Duclair + (futures it would cost)

Man that would be crazy to see...

 

[Suds]

Teams win the cup every year without Ovi.

Hockey is a sport - entertainment - and on the entertainment scale Ovi is a 10, just like Wilson is a 10.

Ovi scores a highlight-reel goal and Wilson smashes a big mouth. Both have an entertainment value of 10 ---- and the crowd roars.

Does that win cups?

That's a different question.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I wonder if Washington would be interested in Ekman-Larsson plus (in this fantasy land where OV is on the trade block)? If Chychrun comes in and quickly becomes a top pairing guy it could make sense for Arizona.

Ovechkin + Orpik (dump)
for
EkmanLarsson + Duclair + (futures it would cost)

Man that would be crazy to see...

Chychrun is miles away from being an nhl player meanwhile, replacing OEL.

 

[412 Others]

I think the pens pass on this one... would rather keep the elite center over the one trick guy