Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Icelevel]

This trade COULD be a big deciding factor in whether or not Dorion sticks around or not. He must be aware of that so it should bode well for the return. I doubt he wants to go out with another disappointing transaction.

Optimistic for that reason.

 

[SpezDispenser]

The only way this could work out is if there is more than 1 team he'll extend with and they have to outbid each other.

An extended dbc is worth a lot

 

[SensFan1010]

I like the idea surronding Phi something around hart and konency obvs we add but we could make it work.

Even if we are in the same situation with konency next year i think theres a better chance he will sign here but then we can just do the same thing next yr and trade him in the off season

 

[Micklebot]

The only way this could work out is if there is more than 1 team he'll extend with and they have to outbid each other.

An extended dbc is worth a lot

Fiala went 19 and a good prospect, that's probably close to best case for us.

Maybe we can get 17 OA and one of Berggren, Wallinder?

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

I'm kind of surprised he doesn't want to stay. The personality he shows indicates someone who is quiet, unassuming, uninterested in partying and nightlife, looking for space. I'd also imagine it would be hard for him to say a negative word about the locker room, his teammates, the way he's been treated by the coaching staff, etc. Why wouldn't Ottawa be near the top of the list?

wife has more influence than anything else

 

[SpezDispenser]

Fiala went 19 and a good prospect, that's probably close to best case for us.

What if detroit and team x both want him badly - and he'll extend in either place. If Dorion plays it well (lol) he could get quite a package.

19 plus good prospect should be the bare minimum for that.

 

[Micklebot]

What if detroit and team x both want him badly - and he'll extend in either place. If Dorion plays it well (lol) he could get quite a package.

19 plus good prospect should be the bare minimum for that.

Do you think other teams didn't want Fiala?

More importantly, DBC might as well have a full NMC, he decides whether he's willing to extend so you need him to want to go to two places

 

[SpezDispenser]

Do you think other teams didn't want Fiala?

More importantly, DBC might as well have a full NMC, he decides whether he's willing to extend so you need him to want to go to two places

That's the thing, he has to want to extend in more than one place.

Which, then I started thinking about the list he gave Dorion, which initially I thought go f*** yourself, but now makes a lot more sense.

I will extend in these 5 places or even these 10 places, so we can do a sign and trade for these.

Why would he? Don't forget about that 8th year worth 9 plus million.

 

[Big Muddy]

I like the idea surronding Phi something around hart and konency obvs we add but we could make it work.

Even if we are in the same situation with konency next year i think theres a better chance he will sign here but then we can just do the same thing next yr and trade him in the off season

Philly is rebuilding. Rebuilding teams usually want high draft picks and prospects.

 

[Micklebot]

That's the thing, he has to want to extend in more than one place.

Which, then I started thinking about the list he gave Dorion, which initially I thought go f*** yourself, but now makes a lot more sense.

I will extend in these 5 places or even these 10 places, so we can do a sign and trade for these.

Why would he? Don't forget about that 8th year worth 9 plus million.

I the the Fiala trade is a solid comparable, a number of teams were in the market, he's a comparable level player, similar age, I don't see us getting more than that, teams don't blow things up to get players of their caliber.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I the the Fiala trade is a solid comparable, a number of teams were in the market, he's a comparable level player, similar age, I don't see us getting more than that, teams don't blow things up to get players of their caliber.

I'm not sure it is. Dbc is a multiple 40 goal guy who played on a team with a rookie C and a banged up rw. He's a huge catch imo if you're acquiring for a top line.

 

[Senator Stanley]

I the the Fiala trade is a solid comparable, a number of teams were in the market, he's a comparable level player, similar age, I don't see us getting more than that, teams don't blow things up to get players of their caliber.

It's the most obvious comparable, but if I'm Dorion, I'm reminding people that DeBrincat is a more proven producer than Fiala was. Fiala had had one big season at the time he was traded. Debrincat has been consistently producing since he entered the league.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Plus, we don't know how many teams were willing to part with the pieces + the extension for Fiala. Same with this, we can only pray that it's more than one team that has major interest.

 

[Micklebot]

It's the most obvious comparable, but if I'm Dorion, I'm reminding people that DeBrincat is a more proven producer than Fiala was. Fiala had had one big season at the time he was traded. Debrincat has been consistently producing since he entered the league.

And the other teams will bring up that he was on Kane's wing the entire time, while Fiala was driving his line, often on the third line

Last three years before both got traded, so not including this year, both have 179 pts, Fiala doing it in 8 fewer games. I don't really think the more proven argument carries a lot of weight, Fiala was plenty proven. Now, maybe teams will value goal scoring more, but if your argument is DeBrincat holds far more value, you're probably understating Fiala.

 

[Senator Stanley]

And the other teams will bring up that he was on Kane's wing the entire time, while Fiala was driving his line, often on the third line

Last three years before both got traded, so not including this year, both have 179 pts, Fiala doing it in 8 fewer games. I don't really think the more proven argument carries a lot of weight, Fiala was plenty proven. Now, maybe teams will value goal scoring more, but if your argument is DeBrincat holds far more value, you're probably understating Fiala.

Yeah, I'm sure that'll be mentioned in any negotiation. But if I'm Dorion, I'd counter that a player who can consistently put up 40 goals when played with your team's top playmaker is a very valuable and arguably rarer asset.

Regardless, I think Dorion has to go into these conversations with the Fiala return as an absolute floor, and arguing that DeBrincat should actually return slightly more.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Yeah, I'm sure that'll be mentioned in any negotiation. But if I'm Dorion, I'd counter that a player who can consistently put up 40 goals when played with your team's top playmaker is a very valuable and arguably rarer asset.

Regardless, I think Dorion has to go into these conversations with the Fiala return as an absolute floor, and arguing that DeBrincat should actually return slightly more.

Yeah. Again though, it doesn't matter much unless there are 2 or more teams ON HIS LIST interested. Then, f*** me, it could get interesting.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, I'm sure that'll be mentioned in any negotiation. But if I'm Dorion, I'd counter that a player who can consistently put up 40 goals when played with your team's top playmaker is a very valuable and arguably rarer asset.

Regardless, I think Dorion has to go into these conversations with the Fiala return as an absolute floor, and arguing that DeBrincat should actually return slightly more.

But he hasn't consistently put up 40, he did it twice. Meanwhile Fiala isn't a bad goal scorer, over the three years prior to being traded he paced at 32 goals per 82 compared to DBC at ~37.

Idk how you get to a place where DeBrincat gets valued considerably higher than Fiala was in similar circumstances. That's not a bad thing, Fiala is a great player.

 

[SpezDispenser]

But he hasn't consistently put up 40, he did it twice. Meanwhile Fiala isn't a bad goal scorer, over the three years prior to being traded he paced at 32 goals per 82 compared to DBC at ~37.

Idk how you get to a place where DeBrincat gets valued considerably higher than Fiala was in similar circumstances. That's not a bad thing, Fiala is a great player.

The main thing right now is, how many teams showed the requisite interest in Fiala and how many teams did he agree to extend with.

 

[Senator Stanley]

But he hasn't consistently put up 40, he did it twice. Meanwhile Fiala isn't a bad goal scorer, over the three years prior to being traded he paced at 32 goals per 82 compared to DBC at ~37.

Idk how you get to a place where DeBrincat gets valued considerably higher than Fiala was in similar circumstances. That's not a bad thing, Fiala is a great player.

Debrincat also had 32 goals in 52 games during the shortened Covid season, or a 50 goal rate. Pick whatever number you think is reasonable - he's a proven and consistent goal scorer.

Part of what I'm pushing back at is the narrative that's growing around DeBrincat, not from you but in the media and around here. "He's coming off a down year", as if 27 goals and 66 points on a second line is some disastrous season. "The Sens won't get as much as they paid for him", as if that means he'll have to be traded for scraps, or worse, Mikael Granlund.

The Fiala return should be the floor. If I'm Dorion, I push for slightly more.

 

[Micklebot]

Debrincat also had 32 goals in 52 games during the shortened Covid season, or a 50 goal rate. Pick whatever number you think is reasonable - he's a proven and consistent goal scorer.

Part of what I'm pushing back at is the narrative that's growing around DeBrincat, not from you but in the media and around here. "He's coming off a down year", as if 27 goals and 66 points on a second line is some disastrous season. "The Sens won't get as much as they paid for him", as if that means he'll have to be traded for scraps, or worse, Mikael Granlund.

The Fiala return should be the floor. If I'm Dorion, I push for slightly more.

They scored at a similar rate before DBC's alledged down year, the 50 pts pace was in the divisional play year and Of course a small sample as it was 52 games, so has a lot of potential to be an outlier,

I'm not trying to put down DBC, I actually tried to frame his career more positively by excluding this year, but I fail to see how Fiala would have been valued lower given he was coming of a season where he was over 30 g and over a pt per game and did it playing with Gaudreau and a rookie in Boldy, Neither of which hit 50 pts. Fiala had as many ES pts that year as DeBrincat had pts this year.

If you see the Fiala return as the minimum acceptable, prepare to be disappointed with the DeBrincat return because I think you're being unrealistic.

 

[Senator Stanley]

They scored at a similar rate before DBC's alledged down year, the 50 pts pace was in the divisional play year and Of course a small sample as it was 52 games, so has a lot of potential to be an outlier,

I'm not trying to put down DBC, I actually tried to frame his career more positively by excluding this year, but I fail to see how Fiala would have been valued lower given he was coming of a season where he was over 30 g and over a pt per game and did it playing with Gaudreau and a rookie in Boldy, Neither of which hit 50 pts. Fiala had as many ES pts that year as DeBrincat had pts this year.

If you see the Fiala return as the minimum acceptable, prepare to be disappointed with the DeBrincat return because I think you're being unrealistic.

We're not saying very different things here. You're saying the Fiala return is probably our ceiling and I'm saying the Fiala return (in a negotiation) should be our floor. It sounds like we both think that's roughly where it will or at least should land.

 

[BondraTime]

If we can get a Fiala return for an extended DBC we should be extremely happy.

Definitely not a floor. It would be a win in the scheme of things for DBC.

We may get the pick, we aren’t going to get a prospect as good as Faber, not near as good imo.

 

[SpezDispenser]

If we can get a Fiala return for an extended DBC we should be extremely happy.

Definitely not a floor. It would be a win in the scheme of things for DBC.

We may get the pick, we aren’t going to get a prospect as good as Faber, near as good imo.

All that means is that DBC will only extend with one team and there's no real bidding at all. I don't think that's optimum at all, I'm hoping there are more than one team that wants him.

 

[GCK]

Of course.

It's extremely rare for a team to trade a major package for a player two years away from UFA without even trying to gauge his interest in re-signing.

Dorion didn't learn his lesson from the Duchene debacle and we're going to pay the price.

What price are we paying ? You haven’t even seen what the return is.

 

[BondraTime]

All that means is that DBC will only extend with one team and there's no real bidding at all. I don't think that's optimum at all, I'm hoping there are more than one team that wants him.

I’m talking in general, I don’t foresee us getting a package as good as 19th + Faber, regardless.

If we do, I’m happy.