Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[OD99]

The raptors and blue jays both have well documented histories of their challanges of getting players to Ontario.

Raps slightly but you still didn't really answer it.

It’s a pointless argument if you think Ottawa has an equal drawing power as the average US city.

Average US city? Absolutely same drawing power. Top destinations? They win out over those average US cities as well.

In our existence we’ve signed Hasek for 2-3 years? And Giroux for 3…

Vegas signed 10x that in the past 2 years.

Who? They have traded for players and mortgaged their future then had to give some of those contracts away because...SPOILER ALERT!!! Teams can't sign as many top players as they want to crazy contracts due to roster and cap considerations

Anyway, I’m really bored of this argument. I’m going to go reschedule my vacation to Manitoba.

Have a great time and go as far North as you can - it is cathartic to get away from the Internet.

Helps you avoid answering questions you don't have answers to as well!

 

[Micklebot]

No argument with the Raptors, but when the Blue Jays are winning they've historically had little trouble attracting big name free agents, from Jack Morris and Paul Molitor in the 90s to Hyun-Jin Ryu and George Springer today.

It's worth noting about 70-80% of NBA players are American, same goes for MLB, there's a systematic bias towards more players wanting to play in the states in both those sports since that's their home country.

 

[DaveMatthew]

It's worth noting about 70-80% of NBA players are American, same goes for MLB, there's a systematic bias towards more players wanting to play in the states in both those sports since that's their home country.

Most NBA players have also had minimal exposure to Canada throughout their lives. Very different compared to hockey players, who’ve all travelled here for tournaments, junior, consumed hockey media coming out of this country, cheered for Canadian born players, etc

 

[Sweatred]

Most NBA players have also had minimal exposure to Canada throughout their lives. Very different compared to hockey players, who’ve all travelled here for tournaments, junior, consumed hockey media coming out of this country, cheered for Canadian born players, etc

Actually canadian hockey players leave Canada at similar rayes as American players.

Maybe, if his ideal destination is Buffalo or New Jersey.

The "ideal" spots like Florida, Tampa and Vegas are pretty much capped out, and it's next to impossible to move enough money out to clear $8-9M. Look at this offseason. Gaudreau went to Columbus. Palat went to New Jersey. Kadri is probably going to Long Island.

DeBrincat, as good as I think he'll be, is not M.Tkachuk. Teams won't move mountains for him and make him the face of their franchise.

Teams don’t need to move mountains - he’s a UFA in two years and can go where ever he wants. “Moving mountains” will be up to the Sens if they want to trade him next summer (cause they know he won’t stay).

 

[Big Muddy]

Classic sweatred goal post moving. It goes from "nobody wants to sign in ottawa to live in a cold house in stittsville, young players want to live the high life in American metropolis'" to "ohh uhhh well errr American teams get more UFAs" after 3 of our young stars sign long term.

Of course they statistically sign more UFAs, literally nobody is arguing that. I am arguing your original point, that Ottawa isn't actually "Ottberia" like it is in your mind. But of course, like with everything, you aren't able to have discourse in good faith and need to fall back on semantics and technicalities to feel like you've come out on top.

For a topic you find boring and don't like arguing about, you sure do bring it up alot.

I spent some time researching this subject recently. One study showed that 57% of free agent players went from higher tax Canadian jurisdictions to lower tax American destinations. So, in my recent posts I stated it is a trend with a thin majority but with numerous & plenty of exceptions. I won't bother digging it up again as the people (or person) debating the other side of this won't be satisfied & will continue to argue anyhow.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Teams don’t need to move mountains - he’s a UFA in two years and can go where ever he wants. “Moving mountains” will be up to the Sens if they want to trade him next summer (cause they know he won’t stay).

Yes, they do. Johnny Gaudreau was a UFA. His ideal destination was Philadelphia. They could not free up the cap space to sign him, so he couldn't go there. He ended up in Columbus, a third-tier NHL city.

Nazem Kadri is currently a UFA, and he can't "go wherever he wants" either. He's choosing between Long Island and Detroit. Not Colorado or LA.

Alex DeBrincat might be thinking, "Man, I'd love to play in Florida or Tampa." But when he becomes a UFA, his only options might be Ottawa, Buffalo and New Jersey.

Actually canadian hockey players leave Canada at similar rayes as American players.

And American players sign in Canada at similar rates as Canadian players.

 

[Sweatred]

Yes, they do. Johnny Gaudreau was a UFA. His ideal destination was Philadelphia. They could not free up the cap space to sign him, so he couldn't go there. He ended up in Columbus, a third-tier NHL city.

Nazem Kadri is currently a UFA, and he can't "go wherever he wants" either. He's choosing between Long Island and Detroit. Not Colorado or LA.

Alex DeBrincat might be thinking, "Man, I'd love to play in Florida or Tampa." But when he becomes a UFA, his only options might be Ottawa, Buffalo and New Jersey.



And American players sign in Canada at similar rates as Canadian players.

None of that mattered - JG still left Calgary. Maybe he got his 2nd or 15th choice … but he got to go where he chose.

 

[Silencio]

Yes, they do. Johnny Gaudreau was a UFA. His ideal destination was Philadelphia. They could not free up the cap space to sign him, so he couldn't go there. He ended up in Columbus, a third-tier NHL city.

Nazem Kadri is currently a UFA, and he can't "go wherever he wants" either. He's choosing between Long Island and Detroit. Not Colorado or LA.

Alex DeBrincat might be thinking, "Man, I'd love to play in Florida or Tampa." But when he becomes a UFA, his only options might be Ottawa, Buffalo and New Jersey.



And American players sign in Canada at similar rates as Canadian players.

Klingberg is a good example as well

 

[Sweatred]

Klingberg is a good example as well

He will probably end up in his 5-10th ideal location. It probably won’t be a CDN team.

 

[DaveMatthew]

None of that mattered - JG still left Calgary. Maybe he got his 2nd or 15th choice … but he got to go where he chose.

Sure. And Ottawa may be DeBrincat's 15th choice, and he may have to sign here.

Gaudreau had one primary criteria - get to the East coast. That's why Calgary was out. He didn't consider any Western American teams, either. But he did consider Montreal.

And he wasn't able to get to his ideal destination. He had to settle.

If DeBrincat says, "I have to go West" then yes, that'll eliminate Ottawa. If he doesn't, we'll be in the mix. We don't have be a "premier" destination to sign him. Odds are, he won't be able to go to a "premier" destination, because there are only a handful of those.

 

[DaveMatthew]

He will probably end up in his 5-10th ideal location. It probably won’t be a CDN team.

If rumours are to be believed, Vancouver was high on his list (you might even say an ideal destination) but they couldn't get rid of either Myers or OEL to clear space.

 

[TeamRenzo]

I have a feeling ADB will love the guys he is playing with and that will be enough to sign long term.

 

[Sweatred]

If rumours are to be believed, Vancouver was high on his list (you might even say an ideal destination) but they couldn't get rid of either Myers or OEL to clear space.

Perhaps - historically they done well attracting players vs the rest of Canada.

 

[cudi]

I aspire to have y'alls level of patience

 

[DaveMatthew]

And let's just say that the idea that NHL players won't want to sign here after we've signed all of Tkachuk, Norris, Chabot, Batherson and Giroux over the last few offseasons is ridiculous.

No, not every player will want to sign here. But all of those guys chose to, and they all easily could have gotten somewhere else.

Even if we do end up re-signing DeBrincat, I'm sure a certain poster will move on to, "There's no way Sanderson will want to play in Ottberia long-term!!!".

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Sweatred]

And let's just say that the idea that NHL players won't want to sign here after we've signed all of Tkachuk, Norris, Chabot, Batherson and Giroux over the last few offseasons is ridiculous.

No, not every player will want to sign here. But all of those guys chose to, and they all easily could have gotten somewhere else.

Even if we do end up re-signing DeBrincat, I'm sure a certain poster will move on to, "There's no way Sanderson will want to play in Ottberia long-term!!!".

Rinse and repeat.

Geez … I think we differentiate between RFA’s and UFA’s … control vs no control. Do you know the difference ? It so frustrating having to explain that.

We all know most drafted players will sign with their drafted teams. Noooooooooooooooobody ever debated that ever.

Rinse … and repeat.

 

[Masked]

Most NBA players have also had minimal exposure to Canada throughout their lives. Very different compared to hockey players, who’ve all travelled here for tournaments, junior, consumed hockey media coming out of this country, cheered for Canadian born players, etc

Not to mention the plethora of American players with a Canadian parent or two. On the Senators alone there's Tkachuk, Norris, DeBrincat, Sanderson, and Kastelic.

Assen na yo!

 

[DaveMatthew]

Geez … I think we differentiate between RFA’s and UFA’s … control vs no control. Do you know the difference ?

We all know most drafted players will sign with their drafted teams. Noooooooooooooooobody ever debated that ever.

Rinse … and repeat.

Ottawa had Josh Norris under control for 3 more years. He signed for 8. Must like igloos and taxes, hate golf and nightclubs.

 

[umma gumma]

If I choose a Toyota over a Honda it doesn’t imply the Honda is “terrible”. Same goes if I choose a Tesla over that Honda.

Please show me where someone said Ottawa is a terrible place to live. I love living here and I don’t see anyone here saying otherwise.

If you said you had to choose between a Honda and Turdyota, and constantly referred to them as Turdyotas, it would be difficult for one not to feel you don't think much of Toyotas. What is sounds like you're saying, is you actually like Toyotas, but you're calling them Turdyotas to simply piss off the Toyota faithful.

 

[DaveMatthew]

If you said you had to choose between a Honda and Turdyota, and constantly referred to them as Turdyotas, it would be difficult for one not to feel you don't think much of Toyotas. What is sounds like you're saying, is you actually like Toyotas, but you're calling them Turdyotas to simply piss off the Toyota faithful.

It's also one thing to say, "I prefer Honda's to Toyota's, and I think most people would as well," vs. attacking anyone who says that some might consider, or even buy, a Honda when it comes time to purchase a car.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Ottawa had Josh Norris under control for 3 more years. He signed for 8. Must like igloos and taxes, hate golf and nightclubs.

He signed for 8 years because we overpayed and gave him an 8M contract. Same goes for Brady.

The last impact player that had attained or was close to UFA status was Bobby Ryan in 2014.

If players have a chance to leave Ottawa they typically take it, barring a significant overpayment.

It is possible we re-sign DeBrincat but no one should be surprised if it requires a double digit average salary.

 

[DaveMatthew]

He signed for 8 years because we overpayed and gave him an 8M contract. Same goes for Brady.

Okay? Of course players won't take a discount to stay in Ottawa long-term. Most players won't take discounts to play anywhere.

The Rangers "overpaid" Zibanejad. The Canadiens "overpaid" Suzuki. St.Louis "overpaid" Thomas. Toronto "overpaid" Marner. The Kings "overpaid" Fiala. Vegas "overpaid" Stone.

There's only one market in the NHL that's proven to be able to sign players at a lower than expected rate - Tampa. And even that's changing, considering Sergachev got $8.5M.

 

[DJB]

He signed for 8 years because we overpayed and gave him an 8M contract. Same goes for Brady.

The last impact player that had attained or was close to UFA status was Bobby Ryan in 2014.

If players have a chance to leave Ottawa they typically take it, barring a significant overpayment.

It is possible we re-sign DeBrincat but no one should be surprised if it requires a double digit average salary.

Who’s to say Norris wouldn’t have been paid the same elsewhere? We simply don’t know that.

Brady looks like an actual discount, had he gone to market he would have gotten what Matthew had gotten likely

 

[DaveMatthew]

Who’s to say Norris wouldn’t have been paid the same elsewhere? We simply don’t know that.

Brady looks like an actual discount, had he gone to market he would have gotten what Matthew had gotten likely

I'd rather have Brady at his contract for the next 5 seasons than Mark Stone at his contract (or Norris vs Duchene), as other examples. Which is interesting because the same posters who think they're overpaid would probably have been happy to have Stone/Duchene here at the same deals they signed in Vegas and Nashville.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Okay? Of course players won't take a discount to stay in Ottawa long-term. Most players won't take discounts to play anywhere.

The Rangers "overpaid" Zibanejad. The Canadiens "overpaid" Suzuki. St.Louis "overpaid" Thomas. Toronto "overpaid" Marner. The Kings "overpaid" Fiala. Vegas "overpaid" Stone.

There's only one market in the NHL that's proven to be able to sign players at a lower than expected rate - Tampa. And even that's changing, considering Sergachev got $8.5M.

I never said anything about a discount.

What I am saying is that if a player has a choice to re-sign in Ottawa or leave via UFA to a more attractive destination, it is more likely they choose the latter.

We had to give Bobby what today amounts to a 8.7M x 7YR contract (until he was 35) to keep him an Ottawa Senator, and that was after a 48P/70GP season.

DeBrincat is a different case from the other players we've re-signed recently. He'll likely require an overpayment to stay given his ability to go whoever he wants after the 2023/24 season, whereas Brady and Norris weren't nearly as close to UFA status and therefore were more amenable to signing long-term if it meant getting 8M immediately instead of much less on bridge contracts.