Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Sweatred]

He reportedly left significantly more money on the table from CGY even after the taxes and that's without tax avoidance strategies like bonuses for Americans that reside in low(er) tax states during the offseason, more from NJD too. Clb isnt an NHL tax haven, they are about as average as it gets in the NHL. When Gaudreau talked about why he chose Clb, he made it sound like it was family reasons,

Ya, I agree with you that he wanted out of Calgary.

 

[Silencio]

Dang those Sunny Tax Free 🏝 Beaches … no idea what these gazilionaire kids like about those places…

Weather (and taxes) do play a part in attracting free agents, but I really don't believe they are as much of a defining factor as you seem to think. How many big name UFAs was Florida signing when they were missing the playoffs almost every season and struggling to attract 8k fans per game? Also it's not like there are an abundance of American cities with NHL teams and winter beach weather...nobody is going to the beach in L.A. or San Jose in January, believe me.

 

[Sweatred]

Weather (and taxes) do play a part in attracting free agents, but I really don't believe they are as much of a defining factor as you seem to think. How many big name UFAs was Florida signing when they were missing the playoffs almost every season and struggling to attract 8k fans per game? Also it's not like there are an abundance of American cities with NHL teams and winter beach weather...nobody is going to the beach in L.A. or San Jose in January, believe me.

We’ve seen the warm weather tax havens fill up recently. Vegas is full, Tampa is full…

If you track net UFA dollars and NTC’s in the NHL you’d see an obvious trend away from Canada.

The bikins aren’t meant to suggest every player is drooling to hit the beech. They just represent the Southern (Anti Canadian) trend.

 

[GCK]

2.5 % income tax … maybe he doesn’t like the or … but he sure likes his .

Those Sunny teams don’t have much cap space left … Calgary had lots but I guess he wasn’t interested in staying longer than he “HAD” too.

PS … I take it your not a 🏖 guy.

I think taxes matter but weather, nightlife is overstated. Players spend about 200 days in the city, including camp. Once you factor in roadtrips and the 1 week mandated break, all star break, etc.. it’s not that much time.

 

[Sweatred]

I think taxes matter but weather, nightlife is overstated. Players spend about 200 days in the city, including camp. Once you factor in roadtrips and the 1 week mandated break, all star break, etc.. it’s not that much time.

Different things draw each player individually - very few (some do) choose the cold house in Stittsville’s suberbs …

Think how Stone’s days in February are different in Vegas vs Westboro.

 

[OD99]

Different things draw each player individually - very few (some do) choose the cold house in Stittsville’s suberbs …

Think how Stone’s days in February are different in Vegas vs Westboro.

They all have the same roster and cap limits so some players may want to live it up but reality is very few truly pick their own destination.

Colorado will be a destination for many now and they don't offer even 1 of the things you consistently list as a big draw.

Winning and culture are by far the top 2 items for the vast majority of pro athletes.

 

[JD1]

Different things draw each player individually - very few (some do) choose the cold house in Stittsville’s suberbs …

Think how Stone’s days in February are different in Vegas vs Westboro.

You need to be a bit more realistic in your cold house scenario. First off, most hockey players are from colder climates. If we really want to talk cold, we're talking December through March. 120 days. Within that 120 days, there is the Christmas break and the all Star. So, subtract 7 or so days. Then you have to look at road trips. How many of the remaining 113 days are spent in Ottawa. Half is a reasonable guess, maybe a bit more. Call it 60 days. Then you actually have to look at how many days it is actually cold in that 60 day window. This isn't the north pole. Winter is a fact of life.

Perhaps you can point to various players that choose a destination based on climate and also won a cup?

Different things draw each player individually - very few (some do) choose the cold house in Stittsville’s suberbs …

Think how Stone’s days in February are different in Vegas vs Westboro.

Stone is from the same neighborhood I am from in Winnipeg... Ottawa winters are something he grew up with

 

[Big Muddy]

You need to be a bit more realistic in your cold house scenario. First off, most hockey players are from colder climates. If we really want to talk cold, we're talking December through March. 120 days. Within that 120 days, there is the Christmas break and the all Star. So, subtract 7 or so days. Then you have to look at road trips. How many of the remaining 113 days are spent in Ottawa. Half is a reasonable guess, maybe a bit more. Call it 60 days. Then you actually have to look at how many days it is actually cold in that 60 day window. This isn't the north pole. Winter is a fact of life.

Perhaps you can point to various players that choose a destination based on climate and also won a cup?


Stone is from the same neighborhood I am from in Winnipeg... Ottawa winters are something he grew up with

Coincidentally, I just made a post on the same subject in another thread (sorry for repeating it).

For all we know, a player could have Retirement Compensation Agreements (RCA) in place minimizing the differences in tax regimes from a high tax jurisdiction (e.g., Ontario, 53% versus Florida 40.5%). Especially a U.S. based player (or hockey family) may just have more info than the average person on how to minimize the tax implications. Mike Johnson (ex NHL player, now NHL Network) said the difference between the highest Canadian tax jurisdiction to the lowest U.S. tax jurisdiction is about a 5% difference with a RCA in place. Got to think there are other factors at work for many players other than a potential 5% difference (assumes a RCA).

Ironically Alberta's tax rate is lower than many U.S. states as well - kind of interesting. There's also currency differences that play a factor (Canadian players get paid in U.S. dollars).

To summarize, there's all kind of factors at work, so a little more difficult to predict how a player would think. There could be a trend (i.e., a small majority) there towards the U.S. because of taxes, but I think that generalization would also have a significant number of exceptions as well.

 

[milkbag]

Different things draw each player individually - very few (some do) choose the cold house in Stittsville’s suberbs …

Think how Stone’s days in February are different in Vegas vs Westboro.

It always makes me laugh when you bring this stuff up because its a very clear projection on your part of how dreary you feel like your life is in suburbia.

We literally just saw 3 young stars recently choose "the cold house in stittsville" yet you still haven't changed your tune. Location doesn't matter thaaat much when you're not even in that house half the winter because you're on the road. Majority of players leave their cold house in the summers regardless.

Success and culture play a much bigger role than just straight cash and bikini babes year round... although it does to some, like you said.

 

[Big Muddy]

It always makes me laugh when you bring this stuff up because its a very clear projection on your part of how dreary you feel like your life is in suburbia.

We literally just saw 3 young stars recently choose "the cold house in stittsville" yet you still haven't changed your tune. Location doesn't matter thaaat much when you're not even in that house half the winter because you're on the road. Majority of players leave their cold house in the summers regardless.

Success and culture play a much bigger role than just straight cash and bikini babes year round... although it does to some, like you said.

I have often wondered if there isn't another factor at work for those that seem to dump constantly on living in Ottawa (or another Canadian city). Maybe something negative happened that has caused a dislike for the city?

 

[Sweatred]

They all have the same roster and cap limits so some players may want to live it up but reality is very few truly pick their own destination.

Colorado will be a destination for many now and they don't offer even 1 of the things you consistently list as a big draw.

Winning and culture are by far the top 2 items for the vast majority of pro athletes.

There are always multiple US destinations available with cap space and in winning cycles.

Geez … the disinterest in pro athletes playing in Canada is well documented/discussed in all 4 pro leagues. It’s stupid to argue it.

 

[Sweatred]

It always makes me laugh when you bring this stuff up because its a very clear projection on your part of how dreary you feel like your life is in suburbia.

We literally just saw 3 young stars recently choose "the cold house in stittsville" yet you still haven't changed your tune. Location doesn't matter thaaat much when you're not even in that house half the winter because you're on the road. Majority of players leave their cold house in the summers regardless.

Success and culture play a much bigger role than just straight cash and bikini babes year round... although it does to some, like you said.

Dreary ? I love my little house in the suburbs … you can have a wonderful life on $250K here…. I am going to the 🏖 soon and if I had $80 million I’d absolutely own homes in other cities…. And they wouldn’t be Winnipeg or Calgary.

It’s such a stupid argument - key UFA signings are well documented. There are some really good US based podcasts that break the numbers down for all 4 sports plus things like tennis, track, volleyball etc.

We have G and Hasek who were both at the end of their career in 20 years and the longest any committed was 3 years.

You are confusing Dorion getting a few years of UFA from these guys cause he can leverage their first controlled contract for life time security. For these guys to secure their first $50+ He is able to get 1-2 years from them. When you don’t leverage that you get the Matthew and Duschene situations.

Think of how many key UFA’s Canada signs vs the average US city.

1. How many key Canadian UFA’s sign in the US.
2. How many key US UFA’s sign in the US.

How many of Bob’s top UFA list or players with NTC’s that were traded like Matthew ended in Canadian markets this summer?

The Top 30 Unrestricted Free Agents of 2022 | The Hockey News

Anyway, it’s a boring argument. I’d rather argue wether the earth is round. I couldn’t care less if you think a winning Ottawa has the same UFA drawing power as a winning Vegas.

 

[ksens]

I have often wondered if there isn't another factor at work for those that seem to dump constantly on living in Ottawa (or another Canadian city). Maybe something negative happened that has caused a dislike for the city?

Usually it is bitterness with their life situation coupled with a 'grass is greener' outlook, having never traveled to or lived in the cities they seem to think would make great places to live.

DeBrincat is from suburban Detroit and played his junior hockey in Erie and pro hockey in Chicago. Ottawa is not going to be some kind of culture shock.

 

[milkbag]

Dreary ? I love my little house in the suburbs … you can have a wonderful life on $250K here…. I am going to the 🏖 soon and if I had $80 million I’d absolutely own homes in other cities…. And they wouldn’t be Winnipeg or Calgary.

It’s such a stupid argument - key UFA signings are well documented. There are some really good US based podcasts that break the numbers down for all 4 sports plus things like tennis, track, volleyball etc.

We have G and Hasek who were both at the end of their career in 20 years and the longest any committed was 3 years.

You are confusing Dorion getting a few years of UFA from these guys cause he can leverage their first controlled contract for life time security. For these guys to secure their first $50+ He is able to get 1-2 years from them. When you don’t leverage that you get the Matthew and Duschene situations.

Think of how many key UFA’s Canada signs vs the average US city.

1. How many key Canadian UFA’s sign in the US.
2. How many key US UFA’s sign in the US.

How many of Bob’s top UFA list or players with NTC’s that were traded like Matthew ended in Canadian markets this summer?

The Top 30 Unrestricted Free Agents of 2022 | The Hockey News

Anyway, it’s a boring argument. I’d rather argue wether the earth is round. I couldn’t care less if you think a winning Ottawa has the same UFA drawing power as a winning Vegas.

Classic sweatred goal post moving. It goes from "nobody wants to sign in ottawa to live in a cold house in stittsville, young players want to live the high life in American metropolis'" to "ohh uhhh well errr American teams get more UFAs" after 3 of our young stars sign long term.

Of course they statistically sign more UFAs, literally nobody is arguing that. I am arguing your original point, that Ottawa isn't actually "Ottberia" like it is in your mind. But of course, like with everything, you aren't able to have discourse in good faith and need to fall back on semantics and technicalities to feel like you've come out on top.

For a topic you find boring and don't like arguing about, you sure do bring it up alot.

 

[OD99]

There are always multiple US destinations available with cap space and in winning cycles.

Oh ya? Name them? Usually teams are in winning cycles because they already have good players that are getting paid or will be getting paid in the near future. Which team is just attracting new, top FA every year?

Geez … the disinterest in pro athletes playing in Canada is well documented/discussed in all 4 pro leagues. It’s stupid to argue it.

It is just as stupid to constantly exaggerate and overstate it.

I guess you mean 3 pro leagues as the NFL isn't here but which US players want out of the Blue Jays? It is a Summer league so the brutally harsh winter shouldn't be an issue for the soft baseball player and they play so much they rarely have down time.

Have only heard of a few players not interested in Raps because generally they are known as a good ORG. There are more players who don't wan to play for Charlotte than the Raps.

 

[Cosmix]

Weather (and taxes) do play a part in attracting free agents, but I really don't believe they are as much of a defining factor as you seem to think. How many big name UFAs was Florida signing when they were missing the playoffs almost every season and struggling to attract 8k fans per game? Also it's not like there are an abundance of American cities with NHL teams and winter beach weather...nobody is going to the beach in L.A. or San Jose in January, believe me.

Not going to the beach, but I don't think their wives and girlfriends are shovelling snow, having to get tow truck service to jump start their cars, staying home during winter storms, etc.

I think "salary dollars after taxes" are a major factor along with "closeness to family" and "SC contender". Weather, entertainment facilities, nightlife, etc. come lower in importance but are still considerations.

 

[Sweatred]

Oh ya? Name them? Usually teams are in winning cycles because they already have good players that are getting paid or will be getting paid in the near future. Which team is just attracting new, top FA every year?

It is just as stupid to constantly exaggerate and overstate it.

I guess you mean 3 pro leagues as the NFL isn't here but which US players want out of the Blue Jays? It is a Summer league so the brutally harsh winter shouldn't be an issue for the soft baseball player and they play so much they rarely have down time.

Have only heard of a few players not interested in Raps because generally they are known as a good ORG. There are more players who don't wan to play for Charlotte than the Raps.

The raptors and blue jays both have well documented histories of their challanges of getting players to Ontario.

It’s a pointless argument if you think Ottawa has an equal drawing power as the average US city.

In our existence we’ve signed Hasek for 2-3 years? And Giroux for 3…

Vegas signed 10x that in the past 2 years.

Anyway, I’m really bored of this argument. I’m going to go reschedule my vacation to Manitoba.

 

[Cosmix]

The raptors and blue jays both have well documented histories of their challanges of getting players to Ontario.

It’s a pointless argument if you think Ottawa has an equal drawing power as the average US city.

In our existence we’ve signed Hasek for 2-3 years? And Giroux for 3…

Vegas signed 10x that in the past 2 years.

Anyway, I’m really bored of this argument. I’m going to go reschedule my vacation to Manitoba.

Make sure to visit the Legislature Building, The Forks, Museum of Man and Nature, Assiniboine Park & Zoo, and go to the Royal Winnipeg Ballet, Manitoba Theatre Center, Blue Bomber game, Jets game and the beaches (Winnipeg Beach, Grand Beach, Falcon Lake).

 

[umma gumma]

Shocking that yet another thread that spirraled down into discussing how terrible Ottawa is. Good discussion happening and then you know who shows up with his lighter...


Soooo, that DeBrincat fellow...he can score.

 

[Sweatred]

Shocking that yet another thread that spirraled down into discussing how terrible Ottawa is. Good discussion happening and then you know who shows up with his lighter...


Soooo, that DeBrincat fellow...he can score.

Shocking how you extrapolate that conclusion.

If I choose a Toyota over a Honda it doesn’t imply the Honda is “terrible”. Same goes if I choose a Tesla over that Honda.

Please show me where someone said Ottawa is a terrible place to live. I love living here and I don’t see anyone here saying otherwise.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I heard that DeBrincat and his wife visited Ottawa Stittsville to look at some houses last week. She's since filed for divorce.

 

[Silencio]

The raptors and blue jays both have well documented histories of their challanges of getting players to Ontario.

No argument with the Raptors, but when the Blue Jays are winning they've historically had little trouble attracting big name free agents, from Jack Morris and Paul Molitor in the 90s to Hyun-Jin Ryu and George Springer today.

 

[Sweatred]

No argument with the Raptors, but when the Blue Jays are winning they've historically had little trouble attracting big name free agents, from Jack Morris and Paul Molitor in the 90s to Hyun-Jin Ryu and George Springer today.

My guess is Debtincat enjoys next season here, has lots of great things to say, and then he will be in tough to consider extending here or going the way of Matthew and signing for the 7-8 years in what ever his ideal destination is.

In an ideal world he probably wouldn’t mind 3-4 years with this group but that’s hard to navigate with injury risks, short careers, and a player trying to capitalize on his career best years. In the end I think there is a >50% chance he’s gone.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The raptors and blue jays both have well documented histories of their challanges of getting players to Ontario.

It’s a pointless argument if you think Ottawa has an equal drawing power as the average US city.

In our existence we’ve signed Hasek for 2-3 years? And Giroux for 3…

Vegas signed 10x that in the past 2 years.

Anyway, I’m really bored of this argument. I’m going to go reschedule my vacation to Manitoba.

The fact that the NBA and MLB each only have one Canadian team is an important factor at making them less attractive.

Players will prefer the US in the NHL as well but with 7 teams in Canada there are more attractive Canadian options. When almost 25% of the options are in Canada, saying no to Canada is far more costly.

 

[DaveMatthew]

My guess is Debtincat enjoys next season here, has lots of great things to say, and then he will be in tough to consider extending here or going the way of Matthew and signing for the 7-8 years in what ever his ideal destination is.

In an ideal world he probably wouldn’t mind 3-4 years with this group but that’s hard to navigate with injury risks, short careers, and a player trying to capitalize on his career best years. In the end I think there is a >50% chance he’s gone.

Maybe, if his ideal destination is Buffalo or New Jersey.

The "ideal" spots like Florida, Tampa and Vegas are pretty much capped out, and it's next to impossible to move enough money out to clear $8-9M. Look at this offseason. Gaudreau went to Columbus. Palat went to New Jersey. Kadri is probably going to Long Island.

DeBrincat, as good as I think he'll be, is not M.Tkachuk. Teams won't move mountains for him and make him the face of their franchise.