Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Sun God Nika]

What teams in the league are ready to sign Debrincat to a 8x9m contract today ?

There is two outcomes here.
He signs his QO which means he wants to test free agency the following year where the cap is much higher.

He doesn’t want to gamble a high term high aav contract on another season and cashes out in ottawa between now and the summer.

 

[Big Muddy]

Jason Robertson's insane contract is going to help us a lot with DbC.

Texas does not have state tax. His tax situation would be as ideal as he could get as an NHL player playing anywhere.

Others details to note would be that his contract is 4 years and has a $3 m signing bonus.

 

[Yak]

We will always be looking to find another 0laywr like Cat and they don' t grow on tree's and hard to trade for. Not like players lining up to come here.

We will make it work.

 

[bashbros32]

We will always be looking to find another 0laywr like Cat and they don' t grow on tree's and hard to trade for. Not like players lining up to come here.

We will make it work.

God I hope so... Him and Stutzle are the only 2 guys with any gambreaking SKILL.

I am not saying that others are not gamebreakers. Tkachuk with his grit, Giroux with his vision and faceoffs... But Timmy and DBC are the only 2 guys that can make opponents look silly consistently.

then there is also the whole... 40 goal scorer thing... no he isn't producing that this year, but he also really isn't being put into a position to succeed...

Watch the set plays we have in the o-zone, theres like 2: either a) Chabot forces a pass to DBC, but he's off by a foot or 2 so DBC has to coral the puck, and that extra second allows defenders to get in position to cover him.

Or B) we go to Tkachuk AT the net, and he "Jams" the puck, hoping to either just force it through a goalie, or have the rebound bounce out to a player on the other side. Either that or Tkachuk tries to force passes through 3 sets of defending sticks and skates, rarely resulting in a pass completion.

 

[UglyPuckling]

We will always be looking to find another 0laywr like Cat and they don' t grow on tree's and hard to trade for. Not like players lining up to come here.

We will make it work.

The latest info on the cap next year is that it will be $83.5 m.

So, of course Debrincat would be a nice player to extend. Don't think most people are saying otherwise.

In the ideal world, I'm sure most would like to add and/or upgrade our forwards (i.e., Debrincat), defense, and in net. The challenge is the Senators can only afford to do 2 of those. I have posted several rosters with salaries, as have several others. From what I've seen so far, they all reach the same conclusions.

So, which of those two would you pick?

That's a general question. It's easier to focus on one player or one of those three elements of course. But, that doesn't address the challenge or the bigger picture. So, it's a question for anyone just looking at one player or one of those elements. Having said that, perhaps someone has an idea that solves all three elements and would share the details (22 player roster with salaries) of their plan?

 

[CorrectOpinion]

In a cap league, there's a cycle that a rebuild will follow.

Now the Senators are hitting that phase in the cycle where the young core have moved from their ELC to larger contracts. It gets more difficult to add pieces at that stage to improve the team.

The Debrincat situation seems parallel to when the Leafs added Tavares. So, it's been difficult to add difference makers to our roster since then. The Leafs have been tinkering at the edges of the roster for years because there's not much cap room. We argue endlessly on the Leafs board as to whether adding Tavares (some call him pyjama boy) was a smart move. Well, some I don't I suppose, but many of those tend to be fan boys.

We were fortunate that we were able to get some generational talent when we drafted Matthews & Marner. We were at the right place at the right time, and the draft lottery rules have changed since then making it more random on whether you'll get the 1st overall even when you finish last.

It's hard to win in this league even when you have drafted generational talent and spending cap is really important. I'm not certain that everything is comparable between the 2 teams (generational talent might be one element), but I do see some similarities between the 2 teams and the path the teams have found themselves on.

I think the crucial difference between the clubs is we dont have anyone much above 8m. It's those 10-11m deals that kill teams.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I think the crucial difference between the clubs is we dont have anyone much above 8m. It's those 10-11m deals that kill teams.

No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.

I think the crucial difference between the clubs is we dont have anyone much above 8m. It's those 10-11m deals that kill teams.

No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.

That brings it back to exact point of my post. You can't look at one piece or element in isolation.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.


No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.

That brings it back to exact point of my post. You can't look at one piece or element in isolation.

I certainly agree you can't look at any one piece in isolation but your either/or scenarios aren't obvious to me. 6×8=48 and the cap is going to go up. Keep in mind we can always move players when we better understand our needs and get closer to contention. Not to mention Batherson might end up getting wiped from the books due to the scandal.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I certainly agree you can't look at any one piece in isolation but your either/or scenarios aren't obvious to me. 6×8=48 and the cap is going to go up. Keep in mind we can always move players when we better understand our needs and get closer to contention. Not to mention Batherson might end up getting wiped from the books due to the scandal.

There are posts with rosters and salaries floating around here for 2024-25 as well. 2024-25 is when Sanderson will need a new contract. It depends on what the cap ceiling will be that year, but anything $88 m or less will be difficult. It doesn't start to get easy until around $89 m iirc. We also don't know what our new owners are willing to spend.

 

[CorrectOpinion]

There are posts with rosters and salaries floating around here for 2024-25 as well. 2024-25 is when Sanderson will need a new contract. It depends on what the cap ceiling will be that year, but anything $88 m or less will be difficult. It doesn't start to get easy until around $89 m iirc. We also don't know what our new owners are willing to spend.

I would bet the new owners spend. They are going to be arriving at the right time to do it.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I would bet the new owners spend. They are going to be arriving at the right time to do it.

That's what we all hope. As for the either or scenarios (forgot to mention that), you'll understand if you take a look at the different roster & salary projections that are floating around. There's different approaches in those projections, but they ultimately converge to the point I was mentioning.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The long and short of it is that we can sign him if both sides are willing.

What that looks like in terms of making room, is based on the many variables that allow for several scenarios to unfold.

 

[Que]

Flat cap and his current production get us Cat somewhere between 8.25 and 8.6.

Part of me feels like we could steal him for 8.1 or even a little lower. If he likes the team and city 2/3 million over the course of a 7 year deal is nothing (don’t think Cat gets 8years term).

 

[Sensinitis]

We will always be looking to find another 0laywr like Cat and they don' t grow on tree's and hard to trade for. Not like players lining up to come here.

We will make it work.

I think so too. He’s young enough to be part of the core moving forward and seems to have fit in nicely in the room. On the ice it’s starting to click and if he starts potting some more I don’t see why he would take the risk of starting over again with another team.

Regardless, if he’s traded we should have a very nice return so it’s win-win either way imo

 

[Masked]

No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.


No, but if you add Debrincat & Sanderson to the four that are already in the $8 m club, you'll have 6 players making $8 m or more.

That brings it back to exact point of my post. You can't look at one piece or element in isolation.

Except that Sanderson can be kept cheap until 2025-6. He has no leverage on his next deal. The Senators can sign him to a cheap one year deal and then extend him the next year. By then Giroux's deal will be up, the cap could be much higher and there could be lots of cap space to lock him up long term.

Giving out long term deals makes sense when there's lots of cap space but when you start getting up against the cap, you don't need to lock up guys long term when it will cost you other valuable assets.

Assen na yo!

 

[Big Muddy]

Except that Sanderson can be kept cheap until 2025-6. He has no leverage on his next deal. The Senators can sign him to a cheap one year deal and then extend him the next year. By then Giroux's deal will be up, the cap could be much higher and there could be lots of cap space to lock him up long term.

Giving out long term deals makes sense when there's lots of cap space but when you start getting up against the cap, you don't need to lock up guys long term when it will cost you other valuable assets.

Assen na yo!

Sure, they can go with a short term bridge. That's kicking the can down the road and can have consequences though. What kind of contract would he get if he's one of the top 3/4 defenseman in the league & a Norris candidate after he finishes his bridge? Most of our core & big contracts are on the books for 5 years (Batherson is the exception at 4 years).

And, so far, we have been locking up our key, core players to long term deals. But sure, the trend might not continue & things can always change.

There's a typical cycle that teams go through in a cap league.. All rebuild teams that draft & develop a good core end up in finding themselves in the same place ultimately & in a bit of a squeeze. I suppose we can think we'll somehow be different. Hope for the best. Quelque chose est inévitable.

 

[Masked]

Sure, they can go with a short term bridge. That's kicking the can down the road and can have consequences though. What kind of contract would he get if he's one of the top 3/4 defenseman in the league & a Norris candidate after he finishes his bridge? Most of our core & big contracts are on the books for 5 years (Batherson is the exception at 4 years).

And, so far, we have been locking up our key, core players to long term deals. But sure, the trend might not continue & things can always change.

There's a typical cycle that teams go through in a cap league.. All rebuild teams that draft & develop a good core end up in finding themselves in the same place ultimately & in a bit of a squeeze. I suppose we can think we'll somehow be different. Hope for the best. Quelque chose est inévitable.

I never mentioned bridge. I laid out a much more logical scenario that you've ignored and just made up your assumptions.

You do know what they say about assume, right?

Assennayo

 

[Big Muddy]

I never mentioned bridge. I laid out a much more logical scenario that you've ignored and just made up your assumptions.

You do know what they say about assume, right?

Assennayo

Short term deal, bridge, "kept cheap until 2025-26", whatever. That's just terminology and splitting hairs. There's pros & cons to each approach, which you ignored. Thanks for your valuable contribution.

 

[Cosmix]

God I hope so... Him and Stutzle are the only 2 guys with any gambreaking SKILL.

I am not saying that others are not gamebreakers. Tkachuk with his grit, Giroux with his vision and faceoffs... But Timmy and DBC are the only 2 guys that can make opponents look silly consistently.

then there is also the whole... 40 goal scorer thing... no he isn't producing that this year, but he also really isn't being put into a position to succeed...

Watch the set plays we have in the o-zone, theres like 2: either a) Chabot forces a pass to DBC, but he's off by a foot or 2 so DBC has to coral the puck, and that extra second allows defenders to get in position to cover him.

Or B) we go to Tkachuk AT the net, and he "Jams" the puck, hoping to either just force it through a goalie, or have the rebound bounce out to a player on the other side. Either that or Tkachuk tries to force passes through 3 sets of defending sticks and skates, rarely resulting in a pass completion.

There are more than 2 plays on the PP.
1. Pass to the left to Debrincat for 1 timer
2. Pass to the right to Stutzle/Norris for 1 timer
3. Slapshot on goal to score or create rebounds
4. Pass to Tkachuk beside net for tip or pass across to Debrincat or Stutzle/Norris.

I think so too. He’s young enough to be part of the core moving forward and seems to have fit in nicely in the room. On the ice it’s starting to click and if he starts potting some more I don’t see why he would take the risk of starting over again with another team.

Regardless, if he’s traded we should have a very nice return so it’s win-win either way imo

Turning down $8M-$8.5M over 7/8 years would be very hard to do; particularly if a large amount of it was in annual signing bonus payments.

 

[JD1]

There are more than 2 plays on the PP.
1. Pass to the left to Debrincat for 1 timer
2. Pass to the right to Stutzle/Norris for 1 timer
3. Slapshot on goal to score or create rebounds
4. Pass to Tkachuk beside net for tip or pass across to Debrincat or Stutzle/Norris.


Turning down $8M-$8.5M over 7/8 years would be very hard to do; particularly if a large amount of it was in annual signing bonus payments.

5. Bumper play from goal line to slot

 

[Golden_Jet]

Except that Sanderson can be kept cheap until 2025-6. He has no leverage on his next deal. The Senators can sign him to a cheap one year deal and then extend him the next year. By then Giroux's deal will be up, the cap could be much higher and there could be lots of cap space to lock him up long term.

Giving out long term deals makes sense when there's lots of cap space but when you start getting up against the cap, you don't need to lock up guys long term when it will cost you other valuable assets.

Assen na yo!

Sandy needs a deal in 24/25 season, he burnt a year last year, when he signed his deal, even though injured.

 

[Big Muddy]

Sandy needs a deal in 24/25 season, he burnt a year last year, when he signed his deal, even though injured.

And/plus, Giroux's contract will still be on the books in 2024-25 as well.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Sandy needs a deal in 24/25 season, he burnt a year last year, when he signed his deal, even though injured.

And/plus, Giroux's contract will still be on the books in 2024-25 as well.

Got to think that if Sanderson is signed to short term contracts until 2024-25, he is going to be looking for payday in 2024-25. That's going to be lucrative contract for him if that were the case. I'd doubt the AAV would be in the 8s or 9s (millions). That kind of contract would be buying quite a few UFA years and the cap will have increased by then.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Got to think that if Sanderson is signed to short term contracts until 2024-25, he is going to be looking for payday in 2024-25. That's going to be lucrative contract for him if that were the case. I'd doubt it would be in the 8s or 9s (millions). That kind of contract would be buying quite a few UFA years and the cap will have increased by then.

Sanderson is on ELC until 23/24, so next 4 years after that are RFA, then UFA.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Sanderson is on ELC until 23/24, so next 4 years after that are RFA, then UFA.

Understood, but the trend seems to be locking up players much earlier versus waiting until they hit UFA. Tkachuk, Norris & Stutzle are 3 examples.

Marner & Matthews are 2 other examples from the blue team.

Don't think you'd want to get into a Matthews situation like we have. We gave him a 5 year contract. Now he has a NMC in the summer and we have a tough decision to make, unless of course we sign him to big money.