Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[majormajor]

I know his next contract is going to be 9+ rather than saying he doesn't deserve it I should say I wouldn't be comfortable if the Sens bought him at market value. I rather keep Zub + 3-4M in cap space change.

Those bolded players don't have the same question mark Debrincat has... "Can this player continue doing what they did without player X?"

Maybe Debrincat can, the sentiment from this fanbase is optimistic he can and theres nothing wrong with that. I believe in some stuff other people here don't. I just don't think the Sens should take that risk at 9M.

I'm confident that Debrincat can score 35 or 40 goals again. He doesn't need Kane. But he does need a lot of minutes. The issue is that a lot of these scorers will get their opportunities at the expense of each other, for example Debrincat and Norris will have a hard time both scoring 35 given the distribution of minutes (especially PP).

 

[BankStreetParade]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
DeBrincat-Norris-Batherson

Batherson's make-something-out-of-nothing vision and passing are what guys like Norris and DeBrincat benefit the most from. These are trios that make a lot of sense to me and should produce some really good offensive results.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
DeBrincat-Norris-Batherson

Batherson's make-something-out-of-nothing vision and passing are what guys like Norris and DeBrincat benefit the most from. These are trios that make a lot of sense to me and should produce some really good offensive results.

The Stützle line gelled last game and the Norris line showed signs of figuring it out. I wouldn't make any changes for a few more games, at least.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

...pretty weak start to the season for the Cat. Not sure if he's normally a hot and cold guy, or what.

Here's hoping he picks it up soon.

Think he’s played really well. 2 points in 3 games and creating chances.

The Stützle line gelled last game and the Norris line showed signs of figuring it out. I wouldn't make any changes for a few more games, at least.

We know tkatchuk norris batherson works. I would go with that. Get stutzle gelling with the other two.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Think he’s played really well. 2 points in 3 games and creating chances.


We know tkatchuk norris batherson works. I would go with that. Get stutzle gelling with the other two.

Stützle, Batherson and Tkachuk had 3 points each last game. Not sure why we'd mess with that after their performance.

DeBrincat/Norris/Giroux will figure it out. It's been 3 games.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Stützle, Batherson and Tkachuk had 3 points each last game. Not sure why we'd mess with that after their performance.

DeBrincat/Norris/Giroux will figure it out. It's been 3 games.

Norris was also dominant with them last year. I think the wingers on that line matter more than anything they’d put up points with brassard.

 

[Knave]

Stützle, Batherson and Tkachuk had 3 points each last game. Not sure why we'd mess with that after their performance.

DeBrincat/Norris/Giroux will figure it out. It's been 3 games.

I guess maybe my worries are unfounded but I am worried about Norris. I have no doubt DeBrincat and Giroux can figure it out.

And we know Batherson, Tkachuk and Norris works.

I'm fine with it as is for more games. We've looked decent in all 3 games with clear issues of a young team.

But I have this nagging worry Norris won't fit on that line and we know he fits with Tkachuk and Batherson. Stutzle has the high end talent that he should be able to play with anyone like he did with Formenton and Brown who I love as players... but your potential 1C should not be playing with them.

 

[playasRus]

His qualifying offer is 9M. The contract i whipped up has that built in that he would be paid 9M next year.

You can also argue that it is easier to get that next contract at 32 then it would be at 34.

Most of the arguments are conjecture, like this one. Could argue that he could make more money in years 32 and 33 by taking a max contract in UFA right now than to take a less than max and try to get similar money at 32.

But one thing that's a fact is that 35+ goal scorers under 30 years old signed over the last four-five years do not make less than 8.9M.

Kucherov 2019 - 41 goals, 9.5M
Skinner 2019 - 40 goals, 9M
Guentzel 2019 - 40 goals, 6M (x 5 RFA years post ELC, would likely be closer to 8M if was 8 years, would be even higher as UFA). Mirror's DeBrincat's 6.4M x 3 years post ELC subsequent to 41 goals
Pavelski 2019 - 38 goals (34 years old), 7M x 3 years
Matthews 2019 - 37 goals. Don't need to get into this one.

Connor 2019 - 34 goals, 7.14M x 7 years.
Point 2019 - 41 goals, 6.175M x 3 years, followed with 35 goal pace x 3 years, 9.5M x 8 after despite only single 40 goal plateau.
Tkachuk 2019 - 34 goals, 7M x 3 years, followed with one 42 goal season, 9.5m x 8 after despite only single 40 goal plateau.

The reason I highlight the last three is, Connor is what Chicago should have done with DeBrincat, a long term deal right away, and what TB would have done with Point if they didn't have so many stars already, and what Calgary tried to do with Tkachuk but he wanted his pay day.

So if we're in the camp that Point and Tkachuk's contracts will hinder their respective teams to ice a deep and competitive team, then yes one can maintain that signing DeBrincat to 9.5M x 8 would be overall bad for the success of the team. But it's definitely not an "overpay" considering it's the norm for 35 goal paced forwards or better.

If you insist on getting Zub on a Chiarot type deal, you won't have Zub and you'll settle in UFA for the next Chiarot. That's a huge downgrade. The Sens are dramatically better when Zub is on the ice.



I think that is overly abstracted from reality. We have to compare Debrincat and Zub to their potential replacements and for Zub that is the UFA market and that is where things get really ugly.

I mean from a purely practical stand point, if it's one or the other, Zub walks for nothing as you mentioned, so even if we had a feasible replacement in FA at the 4-7M range (Dumba, Orlov, Sanheim, Klefbom, Severson, Dunn, Cernak, Myers, Jensen, Fabbro - some of which are already extended or would need a trade as RFA), signing him would make more sense as you could possibly get some ELC talent for DeBrincat.

Indiscriminately listing young players along the likes of Dach, Boqvist, Necas, Romanov, Mittelstadt, Chytyl, Kakko, Comtois, Zadina, Durzi, Texier, Rasmussen, Tolvanen, Geekie, Lambert, with some top 60 picks for a 40 goal scorer.

So DeBrincat (9.5M) + Myers (4M)
vs
Mittelstadt + Ryan Johnson + BUF 2024 1st + Zub (6.8M)

Again very hypothetical considering a team like Buffalo might probably not have that much trouble re-signing Mittelstadt unless they hand out 8x8 to Cozens/Krebs/Power like Ottawa did. They do lose 6M cap to Tage next year, then Dahlin will command a 3M raise on 9M+ the year after though...so again, not much space for another 9M forward.

 

[SensontheRush]

Needs to be put on PP1, Norris should be moved to the 2nd unit.

Can't keep your best shooter and goalscorer off your 1st unit because others were there last year, that's idiotic

What if they were both on the 1st unit, and were slapping passes at each other?

 

[aragorn]

Needs to be put on PP1, Norris should be moved to the 2nd unit.

Can't keep your best shooter and goalscorer off your 1st unit because others were there last year, that's idiotic

Norris isn't on the PP because he was there last yr, he's there because he had 35 goals & a lot of them were on the PP because he has such a great & accurate shot. As we have said before the Sens should not be looked at as a PP1 & 2, but two equally good PP units that can both score. I don't seen any reason to split them up since both units are showing they can score & they both should get equal time. Keep it like this until they prove they can't than start the mixing & matching.

 

[BondraTime]

What if they were both on the 1st unit, and were slapping passes at each other?

Then they’re both taking the same role.

Norris isn’t a setup guy, and he’s not the teams top shooting option anymore.

Norris isn't on the PP because he was there last yr, he's there because he had 35 goals & a lot of them were on the PP because he has such a great & accurate shot. As we have said before the Sens should not be looked at as a PP1 & 2, but two equally good PP units that can both score. I don't seen any reason to split them up since both units are showing they can score & they both should get equal time. Keep it like this until they prove they can't than start the mixing & matching.

You don’t put your top players on PP2 for 35-40 seconds depending on the first unit. That is a complete and utter waste.

Without Debrincat, Norris is the trigger guy. With Debrincat, he should be option 2 at that role.

Debrincat is getting the PP minutes. He needs to start every powerplay, not be on the bench.

I’d be very surprised if Norris wasn’t in the 2nd unit in the near future.

 

[SensontheRush]

Then they’re both taking the same role.

Norris isn’t a setup guy, and he’s not the teams top shooting option anymore.

I feel that is conventional wisdom, but if both wingers are suitable snipers, it means you can't run a PK gameplan based on shutting down the one shooting option, and IMO I think Norris is an underrated passer.

DeBrincat we know is both a great passer and shooter; I've said it before, I don't feel like the team is passing to him enough, or he's still going through the process of meshing with the team and is overly differing at this time. Norris hasn't started rolling yet either, could get them both going.

 

[Korpse]

You don’t put your top players on PP2 for 35-40 seconds. That is a complete and utter waste.

Without Debrincat, Norris is the trigger guy. With Debrincat, he should be option 2 at that role.

To this point there isn't a PP1 or PP2. Usage has been split fairly evenly. Debrincat has a slight edge over Norris in terms of TOI.

Debrincat vs Norris by game
3:43 vs 4:01
1:39 vs 1:07
1:57 vs 1:19
Total 7:19 vs 6:30

The biggest issue to this point is PP opportunities. The team has had 8 powerplays in 3 games and is 30th in the league for PP TOI/GP.

 

[aragorn]

Then they’re both taking the same role.

Norris isn’t a setup guy, and he’s not the teams top shooting option anymore.


You don’t put your top players on PP2 for 35-40 seconds. That is a complete and utter waste.

Without Debrincat, Norris is the trigger guy. With Debrincat, he should be option 2 at that role.

Why should Norris be option 2? DeBrincat isn't a setup guy either, I know they play the same role. Norris has shown he can score on the PP as efficiently as anyone & has just as good a shot. Our PP last yr was one of the best in the league & it could be argued they including Norris are our top PP guys.

DeBrincat had 6 more goals than Norris last yr with 16 more games played, if Norris didn't get hurt he could of had similar numbers. I don't think they are all that different on the PP or that DeBrincat is that much better than Norris on the PP. Whether one is on one PP & the other is on the other shouldn't make much difference, they both have a great shot, hopefully they both score & should be on for a minute each.

 

[bicboi64]

Man I feel for other teams PK that have to deal with Norris being the shooter on one PP and then seeing DeBrincat on the next powerplay. I can't wait to see us develop a top end PP in the league

 

[Golden_Jet]

I know his next contract is going to be 9+ rather than saying he doesn't deserve it I should say I wouldn't be comfortable if the Sens bought him at market value. I rather keep Zub + 3-4M in cap space change.

Those bolded players don't have the same question mark Debrincat has... "Can this player continue doing what they did without player X?"

Maybe Debrincat can, the sentiment from this fanbase is optimistic he can and theres nothing wrong with that. I believe in some stuff other people here don't. I just don't think the Sens should take that risk at 9M.

He’s filled the net at every levels hockey, I’m sure he’ll be fine.
What this stuff you believe in, some of us don’t.

 

[Sun God Nika]

He’s filled the net at every levels hockey, I’m sure he’ll be fine.
What this stuff you believe in, some of us don’t.

Pinto will be a #1C in the Ryan Kesler mold
Batherson will be a 90 pt player I got my hopes

 

[playasRus]

Pinto will be a #1C in the Ryan Kesler mold
Batherson will be a 90 pt player I got my hopes

I would be pleasantly surprised. Unless you mean career high one off, maybe twice in the Spezza mold.
Expecting 75-80 point seasons from everyone in our top 6 minus Giroux (25G+40A)

 

[OD99]

I would be pleasantly surprised. Unless you mean career high one off, maybe twice in the Spezza mold.
Expecting 75-80 point seasons from everyone in our top 6 minus Giroux (25G+40A)

Prepare to be pleasantly surprised.

Batherson was on that pace last year and is again already. With the increase in scoring he may be a 100 point player this season and our top 6 may all be PPG.

Norris is the only one truly snake bitten so far but he has a bunch of multi-point games in him yet.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Looked more comfortable to me last night, just not getting puck luck and a few whiffs. Hopefully the empty netter leads to more!

 

[Ice-Tray]

He’s also coming from a team where he was the primary scoring threat on the top line being constantly fed by a legendary player.

This year he is A scoring winger on a team with arguably the best cadre of top six wingers in the league. That’s a huge change for him as he won’t be getting every scoring opportunity the team creates (exaggeration).

There were already some frustrating moments for him over the last few games as he was waiting for passes that never came. It’s an adjustment in his play style and the opportunities he receives, a pulled with two new line mates who are still learning about each others tendencies.

It will come, but if Cat wants to stay with the Sens, he’s going to have to accept being part of an epic top six, and know that he’s not the only top notch scoring threat.

I think Norris, G, and Cat have looked pretty good, and have looked better each game. Norris has pounded about 4-5 posts in the last few games as well as a goal called back. Cat is amassing assists, and G has been scoring. If that’s what they look like while they get to know each other…. Look out.

The Brady Bath Stu line looks even better than when Norris was there, so no chance we change that. I actually find that Stu looks better than he ever has, and so does Norris. That bodes well for Cat getting his chances.

Salary-wise, he’ll probably fit in nicely with the guys around him. After watching Stu buy in at a team friendly number, I’m not sure Cat will be asking for 9.5, but we’ll see. Everyone between 8-9 long term means we have the room to be a crazy deep team going forward as long as we commit to spending to the cap.

 

[sennysensen]

Norris isn't on the PP because he was there last yr, he's there because he had 35 goals & a lot of them were on the PP because he has such a great & accurate shot. As we have said before the Sens should not be looked at as a PP1 & 2, but two equally good PP units that can both score. I don't seen any reason to split them up since both units are showing they can score & they both should get equal time. Keep it like this until they prove they can't than start the mixing & matching.

Norris looked great last night, and was our best player by advanced stats.

He's our snakebit king (along with Cat) so far. 2-3 posts, and a disallowed goal.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I would try DeBrincat in Stutzle's spot on the left side and see how effective the PP is with two excellent one-timer threats.

Having a 40G scorer sitting on the bench while lesser players try to score on the PP is stupid and counterproductive if we're trying to re-sign him.

 

[Answer]

Norris was also dominant with them last year. I think the wingers on that line matter more than anything they’d put up points with brassard.

Batherson works well with anyone. Last year he and Tkachuk had really good chemistry, making slick plays between themselves. Norris wasn't bring much to the table 5on5 (hence his lack of assists), but he was proving to be a good trigger point for Batherson

The year before that, Batherson and Stutzle were working real well too, together, playing separate from both Tkachuk and Norris

 

[Ice-Tray]

I would try DeBrincat in Stutzle's spot on the left side and see how effective the PP is with two excellent one-timer threats.

Having a 40G scorer sitting on the bench while lesser players try to score on the PP is stupid and counterproductive if we're trying to re-sign him.

Norris isn’t really a lesser scorer though, especially in the PP.

You also need the guys who make the plays to be out there, you only need one half board trigger man.

We have the luxury of always having a 30 goal guy sitting on the bench waiting for their unit to come on.

PP’s are both looking good, not sure what the problem is here. One of our key PP strengths is putting out one awesome unit, and then after a minute putting out another awesome unit.