Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[SensHulk]

Damn if only we had more chipotle’s….

 

[Daffy]

Garrioch said on Onrait tonight to watch for Detroit and Dallas in particular on Debrincat.

What would interest us from Dallas?

 

[Sensators]

Here’s my take on Debrincat

We can easily get a 1st for him at next years deadline or a solid prospect. To me there is no sense in trading him for a crap return just to unload him

If the offers aren’t there, we should qualify him, use him next year to help us win. Heck maybe he changes his tune and decides to sign long term

If we aren’t in the playoffs and he won’t sign then we deal him at the deadline for a first and move on

Selling him low now makes zero sense . It doesn’t help us now or in the future

I agree - if we are in the playoffs and he won't sign is where it gets a bit dicey

 

[Ouroboros]

Garrioch said on Onrait tonight to watch for Detroit and Dallas in particular on Debrincat.

What would interest us from Dallas?

Hard to find a fit given that they only have about 7M in cap space and need 4 or 5 forwards to fill out their roster. I guess if they buyout Suter as has been speculated it would open up some more space.

Any deal is probably dependent on Mason Marchment being willing to waive his NTC to come to Ottawa. I think he'd be a decent fit with Norris and Batherson so I wouldn't hate that as a start to a deal.

They don't have a 2023 1st. Mavrik Bourque might be of some interest.

 

[Micklebot]

The package has to be substantially better imo. You don't like the player, but he's a consistent goal scorer in the league and would help Detroit win games. It could quite easily cost the Sens a playoff spot.

If Detroit is/was making offers for DeBrincat, and we opt to trade him somewhere else because we're worried Debrincat will help them win games, Detroit will just move on to the next trade target. It's not like the only way they can improve is with DeBrincat.

Unless you're talking about a franchise player, you have to assume the team will eventually find a player to fill the need, there's no real advantage to avoiding a trade with a rival, in the end, they'll still find a way to improve, you just handicapped yourself so you won't improve as much.

 

[bert]

This is exactly what we should do.

The market reverses around the trade deadline and selling players goes for a premium.

Sens lose their chance at the UFA market when the caps been flat for 3 years and all the desirable destinations have no cap space. Keeping a player around that does not want to be here doesn't make sense. Everyone needs to be pulling on the rope the same way. Sends a terrible message to the room. Teams that play for one another have the most success in this league. Individuals don't win in this sport. Need to bring in players that want to be here. There is no circumstance they can lose him for nothing with the lack of picks and prospects this team has. They're trying to win a cup sometimes you have to think bigger picture. Building a culture of winning isn't going to happen by gifting players ice time and opportunity if they aren't committed to what this organization is trying to achieve.

Bottom line it was a horrible decision to give up that kind of draft capital for a player that wasn't going to extend. It sucks but they need to retain as much from the deal as they can and move forward. Again risking losing him for nothing cannot be an option. This team has too many holes and very little cap space.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Garrioch said on Onrait tonight to watch for Detroit and Dallas in particular on Debrincat.

What would interest us from Dallas?

Wyatt Johnston and picks.

 

[Beech]

This.

An unsigned pending UFA Bo Horvat was just traded in January for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a 1st round pick.

Ottawa shouldn't be settling for much less than that.

sadly, the trade and subsequent signing is a poor reflection on LOU and not praise for the Canucks.


Lou and Brad Tra. orchestrated last year's #1 and #2 bad moves (Brad is #1 for me).... The Cat and Dorion come in at #3

 

[KingAlfie11]

The Cat and Dorion come in at #3

If I recall everyone was pretty excited about the acquisition of DeBrincat, fans were calling it the summer of Pierre if I recall correctly. So now fans are not happy with Pierre is funny!

 

[Big Muddy]

Wyatt Johnston and picks.

Would moving a cost controlled ($894k/yr) Johnston be a smart/logical move for Dallas? They have $7.3 m of cap space and have to sign six players.

Purely as an aside (*), Johnston had 24 goals last year versus Debrincat's 26. Found that interesting.

* - edited to alleviate confusion.

 

[BondraTime]

Dallas wouldn’t trade Johnston to the Sens for DBC ++

 

[Beech]

If I recall everyone was pretty excited about the acquisition of DeBrincat, fans were calling it the summer of Pierre if I recall correctly. So now fans are not happy with Pierre is funny!

fans are free to be excited. I was not one.. I am not gloating.. I have been wrong enough times. So being right on one, does not give me gloating privileges.

In the end, as you analyze the move, it was wrong. Too many issues to deal with. (DBC)

Similarly with the Horvat and Brad Trai. moves.. All were driven by GMs desperate, by markets desperate/angry and media whipping the fans into a frenzy.

A sober review of the 4-5 moves: Huberdeau/Wheager/Kadri, Horvat, DBC would have said that they are mistakes and not be be made, or overpayments and needed toning down..

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Selling assets for low prices is PDs specialty, can’t wait.

 

[Big Muddy]

If I recall everyone was pretty excited about the acquisition of DeBrincat, fans were calling it the summer of Pierre if I recall correctly. So now fans are not happy with Pierre is funny!

I made a comment when the trade went down about the term (1 year). A few came back with comments on the QO year. I wasn't particularly pacified with that response (a QO is not a sure thing), but didn't make too much noise about it. There was definitely some excitement about the trade.

 

[jbeck5]

Here are the possibilities if we qualify and keep him:

- we're out of the playoffs by the trade deadline, we trade him then and recoup a fraction of the value we gave up for him;

- we're in the playoff hunt but we still trade him anyway to get some value (would be very hard for fans to understand this move, and very unlikely to happen) but now we risk missing the playoffs as a result;

- we're in the playoff hunt but we keep him: either we still miss the playoffs (that's the worst case scenario) or we make it (best case scenario, gets better with each playoff round win), but either way we lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

I think I'd rather trade him now and get some asset back that can help us this year and at least one more year after that, and use the freed up money to do other things.

Either way it's not pretty...

You say "a fraction of the value we gave up"

Sure, it might not be QUITE as good, but it should be in the ball park.

Go look at pending UFAs that are like 30-40 goal scorers and see what they return.

It's usually something like a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Will the sens get the 7th overall pick back? No...but aside from the first round pick dropping a few spots, the rest of the packages value will be pretty much the same.

Debrincat is better than players like Fisher or pageau. What did we get for them?

Pageau returned a 1st, second, and conditional third. We drafted Ridley Greig with the 1st.

Fisher returned a 1st and a 3rd.

So you can probably predict 1st, 2nd, and 3rd as a guarantee...maybe something different if it's roster players.

 

[Sens Vader]

I think a Dallas deal would look like Marchment + 2024 1st + some B prospect

That would be my guess. Maybe Jani Hakanpaa thrown in as well if the Sens aren't getting Hamonic back

 

[BankStreetParade]

Would moving a cost controlled ($894k/yr) Johnston be a smart/logical move for Dallas? They have $7.3 m of cap space and have to sign six players.

Johnston had 24 goals last year versus Debrincat's 26. Found that interesting.

They're in a contention window now and would be adding a piece in the same age range as their new core nucleus of Hintz, Robertson, Heiskanen and Oettinger. Also, why are you going off Debrincat's goal total from last year instead of looking at the larger body of work of one of the best young goal scorers in the league? And why mention goals without mentioning Johnston's 41P vs. Debrincat's 66P (which are widely believed to be a down year for him). I get you wanna make your point but you don't need to present highly selective numbers to do it.

 

[Big Muddy]

They're in a contention window now and would be adding a piece in the same age range as their new core nucleus of Hintz, Robertson, Heiskanen and Oettinger. Also, why are you going off Debrincat's goal total from last year instead of looking at the larger body of work of one of the best young goal scorers in the league? And why mention goals without mentioning Johnston's 41P vs. Debrincat's 66P (which are widely believed to be a down year for him). I get you wanna make your point but you don't need to present highly selective numbers to do it.

My only point was that Dallas don't have the cap to make a trade for Debrincat, unless they dump more players.

I just found the 24 goals versus 26 goals "interesting" exactly as I stated in my post. I was curious about how many goals Johnston got last year, so I looked it up. It was an aside or an observation and it was not in any way important to the point I was making.

I just don't find it logical or compelling that Dallas would move Johnston. I'd think its pretty likely they'd move salary back to Ottawa in order to make a trade with Ottawa.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

2024 1st, Bourque, and Marchment (probably on the NTC list)?

Then trade that 1st to upgrade the roster.

 

[SpezDispenser]

2024 1st, Bourque, and Marchment (probably on the NTC list)?

Then trade that 1st to upgrade the roster.

Relatively interesting

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

2024 1st, Bourque, and Marchment (probably on the NTC list)?

Then trade that 1st to upgrade the roster.

Wouldn't mind this.

 

[armani]

I am prepared to be underwhelmed in a Cat trade, prove me wrong Dorion!

If Laf/Kakko/Chytil+1st (#23) was available from NYR, that's the deal to make.

Trading with Yzerman scares me, but dislodging that 9th might be tough, I won't be happy with 17th+Zadina or a deal like that. Don't like Zadina at all (my pick over Brady FMLol thank Alfie we didn't)!

I like Marchment who is in his prime years, but Dallas first is like a second round pick at #29.

Need a not too low 1st + roster player, might get less.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Is the 2024 Boston 1st Detroit has protected? Not discounting the Bruins yet, but it wouldn't be shocking if they miss the playoffs next year with their cap issues and Bergeron/Krejci not returning.

 

[BondraTime]

Is the 2024 Boston 1st Detroit has protected? Not discounting the Bruins yet, but it wouldn't be shocking if they miss the playoffs next year with their cap issues and Bergeron/Krejci not returning.

It’s protected.

 

[BrawlFan]

Bourque just looks like a Da Costa replica. Tell me I’m wrong but he looks pretty blah.

Marchment may be a great 2/3 line tweener pickup but he is absolutely a capdump in this scenario. If Dallas can get something for him without taking cap back and I’m Pierre I’m telling them to go do so.

Try and get Wyatt. Otherwise take 2 1sts and call it a day.