Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[NyQuil]

I would take slightly less to move him to the West though, even if he circles back in free agency to crappy Detroit (who, I just realized I hate).

I don't really hate Detroit, I just think they have a hard time accepting that they are just as irrelevant as any other bad hockey team (including us).

 

[stempniaksen]

There's really nothing on the Wings that would likely be available that I have any interest in, which is unfortunate because that seems to be where the smoke is coming from.

There is also the inter-division wrinkle which shouldn't matter if the package is significantly better, but I have a hard time seeing that being the case if they are looking at future based packages.

 

[NyQuil]

There's really nothing on the Wings that would likely be available that I have any interest in, which is unfortunate because that seems to be where the smoke is coming from.

Nothing that their fans say is available. As is tradition on HF.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

There's really nothing on the Wings that would likely be available that I have any interest in, which is unfortunate because that seems to be where the smoke is coming from.

There is also the inter-division wrinkle which shouldn't matter if the package is significantly better, but I have a hard time seeing that being the case if they are looking at future based packages.

That smoke is coming out of Debrincat's camp's you know what.

 

[stempniaksen]

Nothing that their fans say is available. As is tradition on HF.

I mean that's fair, but I'm also lower on basically everything on their roster and in their prospect pool than most. Goes beyond the fans this time around, but I'd be lying if I hadn't noticed Wings fans being particularly annoying on the main boards

 

[NyQuil]

Goes beyond the fans this time around, but I'd be lying if I hadn't noticed Wings fans being particularly annoying on the main boards

Well, they came over to our division where no one really cares about them, they have no rivalries, and they haven't been competitive.

 

[JD1]

There are so many variables out there that deliberately sacrificing a return to avoid sending a player to a rival seems short-sighted IMO.

Do we only send him out west? Conceivably, any team in the East is our rival for a playoff spot.

All things being equal, sure, send him far away. But for less return? No thanks.

Doesn't seem like many here are high on DeBrincat so sending him within the division shouldn't be a big deal here if it plays out that way.

 

[Ouroboros]

If Detroit is where this guy wants to go - which seems likely - then he's going to find his way there no matter what the Sens do. Probably as a UFA in 2024. So trading him there now doesn't really matter to me, so long as they offer a reasonable deal.

I'm not losing any sleep over potentially being burned by a rich man's Mike Hoffman.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That smoke is coming out of Debrincat's camp's you know what.

Not entirely.

 

[Boud]

If Detroit is where this guy wants to go - which seems likely - then he's going to find his way there no matter what the Sens do. Probably as a UFA in 2024. So trading him there now doesn't really matter to me, so long as they offer a reasonable deal.

I'm not losing any sleep over potentially being burned by a rich man's Mike Hoffman.

I don't think he specifically wants to go to Detroit if he gave a list of 5 teams where he would be willing to sign. We're talking Vegas, Florida, Nashville, Detroit, Dallas so if he really wanted to go to Detroit only he wouldn't have specified these teams and his willingness to sign long term with them.

My opinion is that there are likely other teams that will be interested that could convince him to sign. Purely hypothetical but say the Rangers want him I'm sure they could entice him on an extension. How many times have we heard players saying they were convinced to sign with a team after talking to players/coaches and management.

In any case I think Dorion will explore all options and discuss with DBC's agent to see if there could be any interest in signing with team X event though they're not on his "pre-approved" list.

I have a feeling he doesn't end up in Detroit unless they really give a better package than other teams. I think a darkhorse team acquires him. The fit is definitely there but Yzerman likely understands the situation Dorion is in and I could see him really lowballing.

 

[MarkStone]

If Detroit lowballs us, change the name of the Steve Yzerman Arena at the sportsplex. Actions have consequences.

 

[Silencio]

Well, they came over to our division where no one really cares about them, they have no rivalries, and they haven't been competitive.

Plus their uniforms are boring and ugly. Yeah I said it.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't think he specifically wants to go to Detroit if he gave a list of 5 teams where he would be willing to sign. We're talking Vegas, Florida, Nashville, Detroit, Dallas so if he really wanted to go to Detroit only he wouldn't have specified these teams and his willingness to sign long term with them.

My opinion is that there are likely other teams that will be interested that could convince him to sign. Purely hypothetical but say the Rangers want him I'm sure they could entice him on an extension. How many times have we heard players saying they were convinced to sign with a team after talking to players/coaches and management.

In any case I think Dorion will explore all options and discuss with DBC's agent to see if there could be any interest in signing with team X event though they're not on his "pre-approved" list.

I have a feeling he doesn't end up in Detroit unless they really give a better package than other teams. I think a darkhorse team acquires him. The fit is definitely there but Yzerman likely understands the situation Dorion is in and I could see him really lowballing.

I don't know how realistic some of the destination on DeBrincat's list are. It seems like there is no realistic way for Vegas or Dallas to accommodate him in their cap structure even if they were interested in acquiring him. Nashville just began a rebuild and probably aren't going to be interested. Florida could do it but they are really thin on trade assets.

To me his list looks like the one place he really wants to go, and then a few low-tax/attractive markets as backups.

It would be nice if he would consider other markets, just in terms of creating a better return. I don't care where he ends up as long as the Senators get a decent deal.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yes, I agree with you, the absolute worst case scenario would be to have only one team in the running for a DeBrincat trade. IMO structuring the process in this way where teams can only to talk to the DeBrincat camp once they have tabled an acceptable offer increases the chances that there will be multiple teams involved. What we wouldn't want is DeBrincat deterring teams from getting involved at all either with unrealistic contract demands for certain destinations or an outright refusal to sign with a potential suitor, we want to be able to leverage those teams' offers in negotiations with other teams before they drop out of the process.

I also was not trying to equate DeBrincat to an NFL QB, I understand that the value of those two assets are in completely different stratospheres. My intention was rather to show the analogies in the two situations where there is/was a GM with 1) an asset that they have to move and that is expected to garner interest from multiple teams and 2) is/was trying to maximize the value of that asset in a trade where they were hindered by a restriction (Watson had a NTC; while DeBrincat does not have a NTC, his willingness to only sign an extension with a limited number of teams kinda forces Dorion to treat the situation as if he did have a NTC). I was also trying to point out that we should not be overly critical of Dorion deciding to structure the trade process as it was reported because the same method has been used before (albeit in a different pro league with a more valuable asset) and it was successful.

My example was also just something I made up to illustrate how I imagined the process to play out, I wasn't trying to imply anything about DeBrincat's market or the number of interested teams. I actually think that for a player of DeBricnat's calibre, his market will be rather thin for the exact reasons you listed (cap situations, teams having more pressing needs, cheaper alternatives being available, etc). I think that in the best case scenario, there are 7-8 teams that kick tires, do their due diligence, feel out what Dorion is looking for. Then out of those 7-8 teams, 3-4 teams get more serious and deeper in negotiations and then if the offers are good enough, Dorion gets to narrow it down to his preferred 2 or 3 offers.

Ya, I think process you describe makes sense and could see why Dorion (or a GM) would use it.

I guess the Senators know that the return will be better if the interested teams know that they could sign Debrincat to a long term contract. I guess that would be why they went to the trouble of asking for a list.

But, that list of teams that was provided by Debrincat is pretty restrictive. It doesn't look like it would be that helpful to the Senators cause. I'd wonder if the non state tax teams are in much of position (cap wise) to give Debrincat a contract.

I'm sure if another team approached Dorion with a strong offer he'd present it to Debrincat and encourage the 2 parties to speak with each other.

My gut is telling me that Debrincat's wife is the key figure in all of this.

But, there's likely a lot that I/we don't know as well, so who knows what will happen. Hope for the best.

 

[DJB]

Here’s my take on Debrincat

We can easily get a 1st for him at next years deadline or a solid prospect. To me there is no sense in trading him for a crap return just to unload him

If the offers aren’t there, we should qualify him, use him next year to help us win. Heck maybe he changes his tune and decides to sign long term

If we aren’t in the playoffs and he won’t sign then we deal him at the deadline for a first and move on

Selling him low now makes zero sense . It doesn’t help us now or in the future

 

[DaveMatthew]

Here’s my take on Debrincat

We can easily get a 1st for him at next years deadline or a solid prospect. To me there is no sense in trading him for a crap return just to unload him

If the offers aren’t there, we should qualify him, use him next year to help us win. Heck maybe he changes his tune and decides to sign long term

If we aren’t in the playoffs and he won’t sign then we deal him at the deadline for a first and move on

Selling him low now makes zero sense . It doesn’t help us now or in the future

This.

An unsigned pending UFA Bo Horvat was just traded in January for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty and a 1st round pick.

Ottawa shouldn't be settling for much less than that.

 

[bicboi64]

I don't know how realistic some of the destination on DeBrincat's list are. It seems like there is no realistic way for Vegas or Dallas to accommodate him in their cap structure even if they were interested in acquiring him. Nashville just began a rebuild and probably aren't going to be interested. Florida could do it but they are really thin on trade assets.

Only way I see them being able to afford Cat is if they move Marchment and convince Benn or Seguin to waive their NMC. Dallas is definitely the least likely to acquire him imo

 

[bert]

You think? I think we'll be in competition for the final wildcard spot with a whole bunch of teams. And while I think Detroit is soft as baby shit, we don't need to be helping a team directly competing for that one spot.

I'm worried about the competition in this case personally.

The goal is to win the cup you're beating 31 other teams. You take the best package doesn't matter where you deal him. He isn't the type of player that imposes his will on a game anyways. If it was someone like Dubois I'd be more worried about it.

 

[bert]

Here’s my take on Debrincat

We can easily get a 1st for him at next years deadline or a solid prospect. To me there is no sense in trading him for a crap return just to unload him

If the offers aren’t there, we should qualify him, use him next year to help us win. Heck maybe he changes his tune and decides to sign long term

If we aren’t in the playoffs and he won’t sign then we deal him at the deadline for a first and move on

Selling him low now makes zero sense . It doesn’t help us now or in the future

Cap space is very valuable for a team that has the holes the sens currently do. Especially in a flat cap era where very few teams have flexibility. The sens also have no picks until the 4th round this year. What if they are in a playoff spot then what? Keep him lose him for nothing? If they do trade him because he won't sign what message does that send? Simply cannot happen. It's lose lose. Better to go get players that want to be here.

To say it makes 0 sense simply is not true.

 

[SpezDispenser]

The goal is to win the cup you're beating 31 other teams. You take the best package doesn't matter where you deal him. He isn't the type of player that imposes his will on a game anyways. If it was someone like Dubois I'd be more worried about it.

The package has to be substantially better imo. You don't like the player, but he's a consistent goal scorer in the league and would help Detroit win games. It could quite easily cost the Sens a playoff spot.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Detroit can go f*** themselves. Also, the Ilitchs are as shady as f*** buying up all the historic downtown landmarks of Detroit with the promise of developing them only to sit on them or turn them into parking lots.

I didn't know that about them. That really is a shitty move. Detroit has (or had) gorgeous architecture They've already lost a ton of it over the last 20 years with the economic downturn and so many people losing their homes. Can't afford to lose any more.

 

[bert]

The package has to be substantially better imo. You don't like the player, but he's a consistent goal scorer in the league and would help Detroit win games. It could quite easily cost the Sens a playoff spot.

If they are on the brink of missing the playoffs they aren't winning the cup anyway. That's the goal. What else could cost the sens is getting a bad return for him. He could walk at the end of the year and go to Detroit anyways.

 

[SpezDispenser]

If they are on the brink of missing the playoffs they aren't winning the cup anyway. That's the goal. What else could cost the sens is getting a bad return for him. He could walk at the end of the year and go to Detroit anyways.

I disagree with half of that, very much to be honest. We're not likely to win the Cup next year, but Tkachuk, Stu, and the entire of our young core must experience a round and hopefully more. I think it's integral to the ascention of the team.

The 2nd part, i agree with. If Detroit is offering a much better package, then you have to make that deal, then assess where you're at on july 1 or past that if a trade is needed. However, if the difference is, for example, a 2nd vs a 3rd, Detroit can go f*** themselves.

 

[h2]

Here’s my take on Debrincat

We can easily get a 1st for him at next years deadline or a solid prospect. To me there is no sense in trading him for a crap return just to unload him

If the offers aren’t there, we should qualify him, use him next year to help us win. Heck maybe he changes his tune and decides to sign long term

If we aren’t in the playoffs and he won’t sign then we deal him at the deadline for a first and move on

Selling him low now makes zero sense . It doesn’t help us now or in the future

This is exactly what we should do.

The market reverses around the trade deadline and selling players goes for a premium.

 

[DrEasy]

This is exactly what we should do.

The market reverses around the trade deadline and selling players goes for a premium.

Here are the possibilities if we qualify and keep him:

- we're out of the playoffs by the trade deadline, we trade him then and recoup a fraction of the value we gave up for him;

- we're in the playoff hunt but we still trade him anyway to get some value (would be very hard for fans to understand this move, and very unlikely to happen) but now we risk missing the playoffs as a result;

- we're in the playoff hunt but we keep him: either we still miss the playoffs (that's the worst case scenario) or we make it (best case scenario, gets better with each playoff round win), but either way we lose him for nothing at the end of the season.

I think I'd rather trade him now and get some asset back that can help us this year and at least one more year after that, and use the freed up money to do other things.

Either way it's not pretty...