Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Hale The Villain]

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[bert]

How would people feel about Andrew Copp coming back in a trade for ADC? $5.25M for four more years, plays a heavy puck pursuit game that would fit anywhere in the lineup.

What would we need to add for the throw in with DET's 17th to be Copp?

Would love it but he has a 10 team no trade list and he is from there. Gotta think the sens are likely on it. Dont think its a good look for them to move a guy that fast after signing him either. But hey Vegas doesnt care about that so maybe I shouldnt either.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

In what way? Are you suggesting a non-playoff team should be trading high draft picks for short-term rentals?

We've seen how well that's worked with Dorion at the helm. I think most would prefer Yzerman's approach.

I'm making the same point you are.

People are defending us trading 3 of our 6 (#4, 9, 12) first round picks during a rebuild, and the longest contract we've gotten out of it is 2 years of Chychrun.

I'm not even a PD hater, he's been dealt some shit cards because of Melnyk and no front office support, but what the f*** is that?

You know this is a legitimate concern when Hale and myself agree on something.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Last type of player this team is missing no thank you.


Add a second rounder and its a deal. Attack the free agency market see if he can revive his career.

No, it was responding to him potentially hitting 20 goals. I said no chance, he said maybe, I changed to "within the realm" (which I don't totally believe, but wanted to make him feel better about a shitty player).

 

[bicboi64]

How would people feel about Andrew Copp coming back in a trade for ADC? $5.25M for four more years, plays a heavy puck pursuit game that would fit anywhere in the lineup.

What would we need to add for the throw in with DET's 17th to be Copp?

Unless the 17th overall and another sweetener is coming in, I feel like $5.6 million is a bit of an overpayment. He's versatile enough to play in the top 9, but is best suited for the 3rd line.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm making the same point you are.

People are defending us trading 3 of our 6 (#4, 9, 12) first round picks during a rebuild, and the longest contract we've gotten out of it is 2 years of Chychrun.

I'm not even a PD hater, he's been dealt some shit cards because of Melnyk and no front office support, but what the f*** is that?

You know this is a legitimate concern when Hale and myself agree on something.

Come on man are you serious? The Duchene trade had zero to do with a rebuild.

But both trades returned star players that fit with our current core and future core. It’s not at all what Stevie Y was saying. Looks like one is over the moon to be here, the other looks like he wants to be back in the US.

Chychrun is a good return of a 12oa, and we have to wait and see what DBC returns before deciding that it’s a loss.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Unless the 17th overall and another sweetener is coming in, I feel like $5.6 million is a bit of an overpayment. He's versatile enough to play in the top 9, but is best suited for the 3rd line.

I don't think you could ever hope for Copp, 17th, + for Dcat. Copp is on a decent contract and if properly utilized, ie as the chase and create space guy for great line mates, he would perform just fine in a second line role. Yes, better suited to the third on a VERY deep team but that's asking a lot.

IMO the key to building a winner is identifying a value player to fit and play a role on the top two lines. Ottawa needs to find that player to free up resources for depth and or a goaltending upgrade. In a year or two it is likely Greig but until then I would be looking to identify a guy like Copp (Garland with retention would be another, maybe Domi) that can outplay his contract on the second line. This is where pro scouting is so valuable and yeah, we don't excel in that department.

 

[Micklebot]

No, it was responding to him potentially hitting 20 goals. I said no chance, he said maybe, I changed to "within the realm" (which I don't totally believe, but wanted to make him feel better about a shitty player).

I mean, if he can stay healthy, his pace hasn't been far off of 20 the last few years. I haven't been paying any attention to him since he joined the Habs,

 

[Beech]

This awful argument again

The team Yzerman took over had Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Hronek, Rasmussen - and that's it as far as "core" players. They had just blown a high pick on Zadina and another two 1sts in Cholowski and Svechnikov were also busting. In short, the team was in disastrous shape.

No idea why someone judge him on the team's performance during his tenure, when they've been rebuilding for at least 3/4 years due to how poorly Kenny Holland ran the team prior to Yzerman entering the fold.

this is how we have defended every failed GM.. Your arguments are being used by the Dorion camp.

and your arguments have been used by every other team... they are cut and past.

Every GM that fails.."well, look at what he had when he took over".. "or "what restrictions he worked under".

Vegas expansion team..Seatle, 2nd year expansion team

Ottawa 1993 expansion, 1997-1998 playoffs.. 5 years~~~~ NYR, LA all bounced back in as little as 4 years.

everyone sings from the same song book when a failure occurs.... keep singing it.. It will be no skin off of my nose if Detroit continues to flounder, nor Ottawa.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I mean, if he can stay healthy, his pace hasn't been far off of 20 the last few years. I haven't been paying any attention to him since he joined the Habs,

I dont think he'll get the playing time to do it, but yeah, his stats are ok.

Not sure he's a player that any team would trot out much in their top six because he sucks so much defensively

 

[Beech]

I wish everyone would just read page 1 of this thread. it is only 11 months old.. still in its wrapper.

 

[bert]

Exactly this.

Yes, players always do lip service like "I want to stay" and " I want to re-sign". But it's really not hard to read between the lines. DeBrincat says multiple times in the interview that he likes the direction of this team, he likes that the core is young and roughly his age, he likes the moves the team made after acquiring him (Giroux, Talbot & Norris contract). It's really not hard to see how different the circumstances are between DeBrincat and Duchene. The players themselves can also see the difference in these circumstances. They aren't stupid.

Woops. Love the optimism, but looks like he never waned to be here. Wild miss by PD.

 

[DJB]

Woops. Love the optimism, but looks like he never waned to be here. Wild miss by PD.

The alarm bells were going off shortly after we acquired him.
I remember an article about Sens pushing to sign him immediately and DBC being in “not a rush” or wanted to take his time and meet the guys etc

We’ve known for a long time this was a short term deal.

 

[UglyPuckling]

The alarm bells were going off shortly after we acquired him.
I remember an article about Sens pushing to sign him immediately and DBC being in “not a rush” or wanted to take his time and meet the guys etc

We’ve known for a long time this was a short term deal.

It was very odd to hear Dorion say that he never spoke to Debrincat about extending during the trade negotiations.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Allen: Red Wings fans are talking about DeBrincat

Detroit Hockey Now's Kevin Allen on Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman meeting with the media yesterday, Detroit wanting to keep their two 1st rounders, Filip Zadina and patience level in Detroit for the Red Wings rebuild.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Detroit can go f*** themselves. Also, the Ilitchs are as shady as f*** buying up all the historic downtown landmarks of Detroit with the promise of developing them only to sit on them or turn them into parking lots.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't really care where ADB goes provided we get a decent return.

 

[bicboi64]

Allen: Red Wings fans are talking about DeBrincat

Detroit Hockey Now's Kevin Allen on Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman meeting with the media yesterday, Detroit wanting to keep their two 1st rounders, Filip Zadina and patience level in Detroit for the Red Wings rebuild.

www.tsn.ca

I hope Detroit keeps their patience with Zadina and increase his top 6 ice time. Especially in games against us, it'll be easier wins for us

 

[SpezDispenser]

I'd rather send him West than the shitbird Wings, even if the return is less. Depends on how much less it is, I guess, but if I'm Dorion, Detroit is LOW on the list.

 

[Bileur]

I don't really care where ADB goes provided we get a decent return.

Yeah don’t want a Hoffman trade 2.0

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah don’t want a Hoffman trade 2.0

We have enough problems with our own team to worry about our competition.

Obviously a terrible return to Detroit just adds an extra punch to the groin.

 

[SenatorsLegionary]

With respect to point 4), I think the GM would select one best offer and then permit Debrincat and his agent to negotiate with that single team for X days. If Debrincat and his agent could not agree on a contract extension within that period of time, then the GM would select his second best offer and proceed in the same way.

Yes, that's definitely plausible as well. If the GM has one or more preferred offers over the others it would make sense to let the teams speak with DeBrincat one by one to get the preferred deal.

I don't know the exact process either, but was just giving it a little thought. Your point 4 was the part I was thinking about mostly I guess. A GM might be able to screen out a low ball offer I suppose by structuring the process and not allowing teams to talk to the Debrincat camp until they provided an offer. But, I think it behooves Dorion to have multiple teams competing for his player. I think you're assuming really high interest and a lot of teams wanting the player. But teams have cap situations and there's typically more than one player available on the market. Teams are going to have to work within the constraints of their environment (cap situation, etc.) anyhow, and I'm not sure a good NFL quarterback and a NHL winger are exactly a good kind of comparison.

I guess we'll find out soon enough how all this works out. Hope for the best.

Yes, I agree with you, the absolute worst case scenario would be to have only one team in the running for a DeBrincat trade. IMO structuring the process in this way where teams can only to talk to the DeBrincat camp once they have tabled an acceptable offer increases the chances that there will be multiple teams involved. What we wouldn't want is DeBrincat deterring teams from getting involved at all either with unrealistic contract demands for certain destinations or an outright refusal to sign with a potential suitor, we want to be able to leverage those teams' offers in negotiations with other teams before they drop out of the process.

I also was not trying to equate DeBrincat to an NFL QB, I understand that the value of those two assets are in completely different stratospheres. My intention was rather to show the analogies in the two situations where there is/was a GM with 1) an asset that they have to move and that is expected to garner interest from multiple teams and 2) is/was trying to maximize the value of that asset in a trade where they were hindered by a restriction (Watson had a NTC; while DeBrincat does not have a NTC, his willingness to only sign an extension with a limited number of teams kinda forces Dorion to treat the situation as if he did have a NTC). I was also trying to point out that we should not be overly critical of Dorion deciding to structure the trade process as it was reported because the same method has been used before (albeit in a different pro league with a more valuable asset) and it was successful.

My example was also just something I made up to illustrate how I imagined the process to play out, I wasn't trying to imply anything about DeBrincat's market or the number of interested teams. I actually think that for a player of DeBricnat's calibre, his market will be rather thin for the exact reasons you listed (cap situations, teams having more pressing needs, cheaper alternatives being available, etc). I think that in the best case scenario, there are 7-8 teams that kick tires, do their due diligence, feel out what Dorion is looking for. Then out of those 7-8 teams, 3-4 teams get more serious and deeper in negotiations and then if the offers are good enough, Dorion gets to narrow it down to his preferred 2 or 3 offers.

 

[SpezDispenser]

We have enough problems with our own team to worry about our competition.

You think? I think we'll be in competition for the final wildcard spot with a whole bunch of teams. And while I think Detroit is soft as baby shit, we don't need to be helping a team directly competing for that one spot.

I'm worried about the competition in this case personally.

 

[NyQuil]

You think? I think we'll be in competition for the final wildcard spot with a whole bunch of teams. And while I think Detroit is soft as baby shit, we don't need to be helping a team directly competing for that one spot.

I'm worried about the competition in this case personally.

There are so many variables out there that deliberately sacrificing a return to avoid sending a player to a rival seems short-sighted IMO.

Do we only send him out west? Conceivably, any team in the East is our rival for a playoff spot.

All things being equal, sure, send him far away. But for less return? No thanks.

 

[SpezDispenser]

There are so many variables out there that deliberately sacrificing a return to avoid sending a player to a rival seems short-sighted IMO.

Do we only send him out west? Conceivably, any team in the East is our rival for a playoff spot.

All things being equal, sure, send him far away. But for less return? No thanks.

That was my initial caveat, how much less? If we're talking a small distinction, then sure, if it's a big difference, then no. I would take slightly less to move him to the West though, even if he circles back in free agency to crappy Detroit (who, I just realized I hate).