Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[SpezDispenser]

He has pedigree...but he's also a specialist. Cat doesn't drive a line, and he needs and elite playmaker with him and another winger who can go into the dirty areas and retrieve pucks for him for him to hit his high marks in goals. When you have to tailor your top two lines around him just to get the best out of a player...it's hard to have a really successful and cohesive team that way. Then to pay him a kings ransom on top of that? There are too many ways that can go sideways, and only one very narrow path where it works out, especially as a UFA contract.

Him with a rookie C and a guy who was still recovering from an injury really messed with everything.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Him with a rookie C and a guy who was still recovering from an injury really messed with everything.

Yes, it did. And that's not on Pinto, either. Just the luck of the Irish last year for everyone.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Maybe I misunderstood. Dorion is not letting them talk about an extension before finalizing a trade?

If that's the case, I don't get it. A signed player is better for value than an question mark imo.

Other teams can only communicate with another teams player/agent if granted permission by the GM of the team the player is currently contracted to play for.

So PD should find at least three interest teams, listen to their offers, and decide which offer is best for the Senators… and then either ask what their contract framework (for DBC) would be, and he could bring that basic frame work to DBCs agent, and see if a deal can be worked out…. Or he could allow the other GM to communicate directly with DBCs agent.

PD has leverage here, and should control as much of the process as possible, for as long as he can.

doubt very much that he would grant multiple GMs to talk directly with DBCs agent, and give the DBC camp the leverage to pick the best deal for them, rather than what is best for Ottawa.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Two 40 goal years and also the shortened year he had 37 in 54 for a 50 goal pace.

I just really felt the need to add that…

plus a 27 goal year…. This past year season

what have you done for me lately?

 

[bert]

If they don't find a deal they like before the draft, why not just keep him until the trade deadline?

So many reasons. A. he will be a distraction. B. He has no future with this organization. C. Can't trade him until January. D. Could effect the room. E. Spend the cap space on someone that wants to be here.

It's mind blowing the trade was made if there was no extension in place or atleast discussed. I'd like to say this is a one off for Dorion but considering the Duchene trade this moron learns nothing from his past mistakes.

 

[bert]

I'm really curious what the package would be now vs at the deadline. I don't really care about it creating a disturbance in the locker room, I assume it wouldn't really and we'd have a motivated forward doing his all for his next contract - and we'll need it.

This is a pretty naive way to look at it. Wishful thinking kinda like the deal in general. It absolutely would be a distraction. Hockey dressing rooms are extremely tight. He doesn't want to be here you don't want that in your room for countless reasons.

It's possible to dislike both DeBrincat for the wishy washy crap and the GM for failing to properly gauge the situation.

He signed his contract for a reason. He always wanted to choose that's why he did it. Absolutely no reasonable reason to be mad at Debrincat.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Again, just completely ignoring how ELC and UFA contracts work.

Yep and that hamstrings your team, in a cap area, overpaying guys, not a bright move.
That UFA , RFA narrative has been changing the last number of years.

 

[JD1]

Well that’s a reason tht the Sens will never get a premium, sought after UFA

So this

That's why i don't have an issue with acquiring DeBrincat. We're likely never going to sign a premium UFA so taking a shot at a guy like Debrincat that might sign is basically the only way to get high end talent other than draft it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Him with a rookie C and a guy who was still recovering from an injury really messed with everything.

His performance last year has very little to do with why he is on the trade block now imo

 

[Dionysus]

Wonder what the pieces would be from Detroit if Debrincat is wants to sign there. Don't at all mind trading in division if it's the best deal. Kasper, or the 9th overall would be a good starting point.

 

[Larionov]

So many reasons. A. he will be a distraction. B. He has no future with this organization. C. Can't trade him until January. D. Could effect the room. E. Spend the cap space on someone that wants to be here.

All sound points. I'll add in one other - if he gets hurt, and is out for the year come the trade deadline, we get nothing for the asset. It's not a massive risk, but it's not zero either.

 

[BondraTime]

Wonder what the pieces would be from Detroit if Debrincat is wants to sign there. Don't at all mind trading in division if it's the best deal. Kasper, or the 9th overall would be a good starting point.

Not sure that’s a starting point, as I don’t think either piece would be available at all.

0% chance they’d trade Kasper for him, even straight up.

 

[Beech]

So this

That's why i don't have an issue with acquiring DeBrincat. We're likely never going to sign a premium UFA so taking a shot at a guy like Debrincat that might sign is basically the only way to get high end talent other than draft it.

JD1,

I have read your post 2-3 times. And I honestly don't know if it is straight forward and agreeing with Bondra, or sarcasm?

If your attempt is at ambiguity and confusion. It worked.

 

[SpezDispenser]

His performance last year has very little to do with why he is on the trade block now imo

I didn't mean it that way, just playing Devil's advocate to his numbers last year.

 

[Dionysus]

Not sure that’s a starting point, as I don’t think either piece would be available at all.

0% chance they’d trade Kasper for him, even straight up.

One can dream. That's the guy I was hoping Ottawa would draft last year before trading the pick.

 

[JackieDaytona]

Debrincat with 1 year left rental to be UFA vs debrincat locked down for 8 years should present wildly different value and offers from teams. Look what this team gave up for 2 years, which at the time ppl thought was a good deal for sens. And it included pieces that were extremely valuable. It needed to otherwise debrincat wouldn’t be a sen.

If he’s going to a team with extension in hand, why wouldn’t we expect top prospect, pick(s), decent roster players coming back? f*** all this noise about teams not willing to give up this guy or that guy and only want to send back scraps. If you’re signing this guy for 8 years the return will include pieces you don’t want to give up. Especially if it’s a rival team in our division. Some of these fans are delusional, 2nd round picks and bottom 6 players as centerpieces for a top line goal scorer. Don’t be convinced by their nonsense.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Debrincat with 1 year left rental to be UFA vs debrincat locked down for 8 years should present wildly different value and offers from teams. Look what this team gave up for 2 years, which at the time ppl thought was a good deal for sens. And it included pieces that were extremely valuable. It needed to otherwise debrincat wouldn’t be a sen.

If he’s going to a team with extension in hand, why wouldn’t we expect top prospect, pick(s), decent roster players coming back? f*** all this noise about teams not willing to give up this guy or that guy and only want to send back scraps. If you’re signing this guy for 8 years the return will include pieces you don’t want to give up. Especially if it’s a rival team in our division. Some of these fans are delusional, 2nd round picks and bottom 6 players as centerpieces for a top line goal scorer. Don’t be convinced by their nonsense.

Not sure it was really 2 years. The 2nd year was variable and not a certainty. If the 2nd year was a sure thing, PD wouldn't be asking Debrincat for his list and exploring trades. Pierre is the GM and needs to know the cap situation and the implications of the cap situation in 2023-24 when he signs Debrincat or any player. It's a pretty big stretch to call it 2 years and that's definitely a detail that make a large difference.

 

[JackieDaytona]

Not sure it was really 2 years. The 2nd year was variable and not a certainty. If the 2nd year was a sure thing, PD wouldn't be asking Debrincat for his list and exploring trades. Pierre is the GM and needs to know the cap situation and the implications of the cap situation in 2023-24 when he signs Debrincat or any player. It's a pretty big stretch to call it 2 years and that's definitely a detail that make a large difference.

It’s absolutely control over the asset for 2 years. We had him this past year, and could have him again next season if we wanted to keep him rather than trade him. It would be f***ing moronic to hold him until ufa, but it’s 2 years of control.

But that’s not relevant. If you consider it less than 2 years in actuality vs what the team gave up for him, that actually supports my point further, not less. He’s a valuable asset. Teams have to provide value for said asset. Look what a team gave up for 2 (or less) seasons. What should a team give up for 8?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So many reasons. A. he will be a distraction. B. He has no future with this organization. C. Can't trade him until January. D. Could effect the room. E. Spend the cap space on someone that wants to be here.

It's mind blowing the trade was made if there was no extension in place or atleast discussed. I'd like to say this is a one off for Dorion but considering the Duchene trade this moron learns nothing from his past mistakes.

Dorion has to make the decision to move him this off season unless DeBrincat extends. DeBrincat isn't showing a lot of interest in extending here regardless of a couple Warne articles wrt his source.
Dorion can't put the Sens in a position where they have to move DeBrincat at the TDL when they will likely be fighting for a playoff spot; Disrupt and very possibly weaken the roster and then miss. He should not wait for Jan 1 to try to move him.

It will be very interesting what the return for him will be with the Sens backed into a corner where they could be pretty much a facing a situation where they have to move him in the best interest of the team at a HUGELY critical year on the hockey side and on the ops side.

I'd like to hear from Dorion on the rationale for making that trade last Draft. I am not saying there was zero upside to it. If it was a splash for upping the brand was that his call? Would he have that motivation? I think he wanted to add the hockey player to bolster his top 6 and his on ice team, and he thought the cost was reasonable .. and he took a chance he could extend him (this is the deja vu part); but he was willing to be in this position if necessary.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What's the minimum AAV Does DeBrincat sign for vs testing UFA at the end of 23-24?

I think that number is 8.5 and up. Obviously that minimum is going to have something to say about the number of teams that would be looking for him with an extension and the price to acquire him.

If he was willing to sign an extension in the 7.5-8 territory the field expands and likely includes a big push from the Sens; I don't think that's realistic. I think he wants to get paid and he'll wait a year if he doesn't get the BIG bucks on a sign and trade deal now.; if so we can expect the return to take a hit but more teams could be involved.

Laine signed a 4 year deal for 8.7 in 2022
Barzal signed an 8 year deal for 9.15 in 2022
Forsberg signed an 8 year deal for 8.5 in 2022

 

[JD1]

JD1,

I have read your post 2-3 times. And I honestly don't know if it is straight forward and agreeing with Bondra, or sarcasm?

If your attempt is at ambiguity and confusion. It worked.

@BondraTime noted we're never going to sign a premium UFA. I agree with that.

So our only opportunity then to acquire high end talent is either draft it or take a shot at a trade like the DeBrincat trade.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

@BondraTime noted we're never going to sign a premium UFA. I agree with that.

So our only opportunity then to acquire high end talent is either draft it or take a shot at a trade like the DeBrincat trade.

We won't if we have internal rules like they can't make more than 7 and 18.

With a rising cap I doubt that holds till the end of their contracts

 

[JD1]

We won't if we have internal rules like they can't make more than 7 and 18.

With a rising cap I doubt that holds till the end of their contracts

Do we have those rules? Lots here rightly think they are our best players so others should not be paid more.

Eventually the cap will rise to the point that those aren't big salaries. I suspect Sanderson might sign for more

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Do we have those rules? Lots here rightly think they are our best players so others should not be paid more.

Eventually the cap will rise to the point that those aren't big salaries. I suspect Sanderson might sign for more

That was what the discussion leading to your quoted post was about I thought. There was an argument presented that no one should make more than them if they could not out produce them.

 

[JD1]

That was what the discussion leading to your quoted post was about I thought. There was an argument presented that no one should make more than them if they could not out produce them.

Ah. Hmmm. I don't see all posts so clearly I missed some of the lead up.