Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Golden_Jet]

Garrioch doesn't have a stance. He just regurgitates what he's told. If the agent was going elsewhere, he'd go to Dreger or LeBrun or someone at Sportsnet. Warne doesn't have enough of a platform for people to use him to get the word out.

Assen na yo!

Garrioch knows players agents after 30 years as well.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

No he doesn’t, the contract would be rejected, that’s why Zub’s wasn’t. It was legal.

They mean after the year 1 period when the NTC is eligible. Contract could be signed now with no NTC for first year, but for the years following. You claimed Dorion likely just isn't allowed given ownership situation.

 

[DaveMatthew]

If you say so dude.

You’ve made your bed I see, and have no room for any information to the contrary.

’Eves, we’ll see how it unfolds. Keep up with the trade proposals though, they are entertaining at least during this shit show.

What's your opinion, though? Is he going to stay, or is he going to traded?

Or will you wait to see what actually happens and then say that that was your opinion on what was going to happen all along?

The purpose of this board is to discuss opinions. Not say, "we'll see what happens but whatever the team decides that's the right call" on every topic.

Everyone is just guessing. Making assumptions based on vague reports. Nobody is saying otherwise. We're not in the room.

 

[Ice-Tray]

What's your opinion, though? Is he going to stay, or is he going to traded?

Or will you wait to see what actually happens and then say that that was your opinion on what was going to happen all along?

The purpose of this board is to discuss opinions. Not say, "we'll see what happens but whatever the team decides that's the right call" on every topic.

Everyone is just guessing. Making assumptions based on vague reports. Nobody is saying otherwise. We're not in the room.

You can’t fall back on ‘the purpose of the board’.

I AM discussing it with you. I never said your points weren’t valid, I’m suggesting that this position is also valid.

I’m saying that Warne’s article is interesting and fits with both the things he has said about the team and city, and the rumours of him waiting for new ownership that have been around since the team went up for sale. Is it that hard to imagine those rumours are true?

He’s so very clearly a low key public speaker guy and so he’s never going to wow people with public emotions, but he has been hanging with the guys and has commented that he likes the city and the team.

This new article fits what we know just as much as his silence is speaking volumes about how much he wants out.

I would like him to stay long term, so I’m happy to read this new piece, but at the same time I know that it doesn’t mean he is going to be signed any more that he wants to leave.

But it’s nice to read for those of us who hope he stays.

 

[Golden_Jet]

What do you mean it was illegal? Zub has a NTC starting next year until his contract ends.

Dorion is allowed to give DBC a contract with NMC in 2024-25 through to 2031-32 if he signed a contract tomorrow.

By next season, I mean 2024-25, not this upcoming season. My fault not being articulate.

You’re confusing yourself, you even quoted my post where I said Zub’s was legal, as below

that’s why Zub’s wasn’t. It was legal.

The rejected part was for me explaining how the rule works, since you were initially confused.
That’s why I said the qualifiers are 7 years or 27 years old.

Ya Zub’s contract is half the length, not sure if that matters, maybe it is about the signing bonuses, like I explained the benefits earlier.
Anyways I’m done, that’s rode it’s course.

They mean after the year 1 period when the NTC is eligible. Contract could be signed now with no NTC for first year, but for the years following. You claimed Dorion likely just isn't allowed given ownership situation.

If you read earlier in conversation, I said he is allowed in years 2-8.

 

[BondraTime]

You’re confusing yourself, you even quoted my post where I said Zub’s was legal, as below

that’s why Zub’s wasn’t. It was legal.

The rejected part was for me explaining how the rule works, since you were initially confused.
That’s why I said the qualifiers are 7 years or 27 years old.

Ya Zub’s contract is half the length, not sure if that matters, maybe it is about the signing bonuses, like I explained the benefits earlier.
Anyways I’m done, that’s rode it’s course.

I fully understand how they work. Nowhere did i mistake how they worked. Nowhere did I write that DBC could get one this season. I was responding to your notion that Dorion isn’t allowed to give out NTC’s when the team is being sold.

Ya I don’t think that PD would be able to get NTCs put into a contract, when the team is being sold.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You can’t fall back on ‘the purpose of the board’.

I AM discussing it with you. I never said your points weren’t valid, I’m suggesting that this position is also valid.

I’m saying that Warne’s article is interesting and fits with both the things he has said about the team and city, and the rumours of him waiting for new ownership that have been around since the team went up for sale. Is it that hard to imagine those rumours are true?

He’s so very clearly a low key public speaker guy and so he’s never going to wow people with public emotions, but he has been hanging with the guys and has commented that he likes the city and the team.

This new article fits what we know just as much as his silence is speaking volumes about how much he wants out.

I would like him to stay long term, so I’m happy to read this new piece, but at the same time I know that it doesn’t mean he is going to be signed any more that he wants to leave.

But it’s nice to read for those of us who hope he stays.

That's fair. My personal opinion is that if he really wanted to stay, even if he wanted to wait for new ownership to sign on the dotted line, he'd be actively negotiating with Dorion.

It'd be in his best interest to make his commitment clear and have a framework of a deal in place, so when the sale goes through, Dorion can go to the new owners, convince them that signing will be money very well spent, and wrap it up quickly.

But that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Debrincat's camp has, reportedly, given Dorion the cold shoulder the entire time.

Why wait until new ownership before even talking? Doesn't make much sense, since the guy you're not talking to can easily trade you in the next 3 weeks. If you piss him off, or make him question your desire to stay, by not engaging, he doesn't need permission to send you to Calgary for a year.

And from the sounds of Dorion's press this offseason, it doesn't seem like Debrincat has said "I want to be in Ottawa". If he had, Dorion wouldn't have been as blunt about arbitration or trades.

 

[JimmyApples]

This sounds like the very difficult ball is in Dorion’s court.

Debrincat will stay if he likes the new owner and the decisions they make with DJ and PD. But those decisions wouldn’t come until later in the summer, at the earliest.

Personally, I’d risk it unless you get a deal you love. I don’t think there will be a huge difference in Debrincat’s trade value right now, and September on a $9M QO. Might have to make the salary work a little differently, but worth the risk of retaining Debrincat.

 

[Silencio]

If DeBrincat does sign I hope the Sun headline is THE CAT CAME BACK

 

[Ice-Tray]

That's fair. My personal opinion is that if he really wanted to stay, even if he wanted to wait for new ownership to sign on the dotted line, he'd be actively negotiating with Dorion.

It'd be in his best interest to make his commitment clear and have a framework of a deal in place, so when the sale goes through, Dorion can go to the new owners, convince them that signing will be money very well spent, and wrap it up quickly.

But that doesn't seem to be what's happening. Debrincat's camp has, reportedly, given Dorion the cold shoulder the entire time.

Why wait until new ownership before even talking? Doesn't make much sense, since the guy you're not talking to can easily trade you in the next 3 weeks. If you piss him off, or make him question your desire to stay, by not engaging, he doesn't need permission to send you to Calgary for a year.

And from the sounds of Dorion's press this offseason, it doesn't seem like Debrincat has said "I want to be in Ottawa". If he had, Dorion wouldn't have been as blunt about arbitration or trades.

I can’t argue with any of this either, it all seems to be in a holding pattern, much like the team sale.

I would definitely prefer some positive news, but for now it looks like no news, and no news can easily become bad news the longer it goes on.

I’ll get on board a trade if it has to happen, I always do, but I’m still hoping the waiting game across the board ends soon and we’re all stoked.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I fully understand how they work. Nowhere did i mistake how they worked. Nowhere did I write that DBC could get one this season. I was responding to your notion that Dorion isn’t allowed to give out NTC’s when the team is being sold.

Ya my bad sorry, had to look back through the pages, it was davemathew that thought DBC could get a NTC in year 1.

 

[BondraTime]

Ya my bad sorry, had to look back through the pages, it was davemathew that thought DBC could get a NTC in year 1.

All good my guy, the threads have been piling up hard to keep up with everything

 

[PlayersLtd]

A lot of people talking about taxes being a driver for Dcat but let's be clear, once you factor the FEDERAL income tax rate of 37% in the US the gap closes substantially. To say Vegas is zero tax is misleading to the tune of about $3M on an $8M contract.

Add to the fact that players are taxed in the state/province where they play each game and the difference between Vegas and Ottawa (for example) is much smaller than people are making it appear.

In Ottawa the income tax rate for 41 home games for an NHL player amounts to about 52%. Playing in Vegas it is about 37%. However, for every away game the net income tax paid increases for Vegas and decreases for Ottawa because every jurisdiction taxes at a higher rate than Vegas but at a lower rate than Ottawa. In other words, the gap closes between Vegas and Ottawa for nearly half of their work days.

So, playing for Vegas you are taxed approximately 10% less than playing for Ottawa, or roughly $800K for a player like Dcat. It's still a lot of money and certainly weighs into their decisions but its not like it's Ontario's marginal tax rate vs 0.

*2020 figures

How Taxes Affect NHL Salaries

My 4th year project for school was about the marginal effect of income taxes on NHL salaries (with bonus content on inertia and the hometown discount). So, I wrote this post for 2 reasons. 1) Explain...

hockeyandstuff.weebly.com

 

[KevinRedkey]

Kotkaniemi's QO was 6.100 and he signed for 4.820

Why is everyone acting like 9.000 is the minimum for DeBrincat? He's not worth that and he likely knows that. Unless he's really wanting out of Ottawa ASAP, you gotta believe he's at least being more reasonbale than that.

 

[Bileur]

I’m pro trading DeBrincat but this is a banger from Greg:

Kotkaniemi's QO was 6.100 and he signed for 4.820

Why is everyone acting like 9.000 is the minimum for DeBrincat? He's not worth that and he likely knows that. Unless he's really wanting out of Ottawa ASAP, you gotta believe he's at least being more reasonbale than that.

I agree that Cat won’t get 9 per on a long term deal but KK was coming off a 29 point season and who had generally been disappointing in his career. Quite different leverage than Cat who has several 40+ goal seasons.

 

[BondraTime]

Kotkaniemi's QO was 6.100 and he signed for 4.820

Why is everyone acting like 9.000 is the minimum for DeBrincat? He's not worth that and he likely knows that. Unless he's really wanting out of Ottawa ASAP, you gotta believe he's at least being more reasonbale than that.

KK’s QO was high because Carolina intentionally gave him an incredibly inflated salary as a part of an offer sheet.

Not similar whatsoever.

Dubois is asking for 8 x 9, I’d imagine DBC’s ask is similar. Do I think either get that? No, but I’d imagine that’s the ask.

 

[JD1]

Seems everyone is trying to buy time here

How I see this playing out is the team elects arbitration which puts things off until roughly early August.

The sale should be long completed by then and provide DeBrincat with plenty of time to meet with new ownership. If the issue is not wanting to sign because he an be traded in year one, well then arbitration is the way to buy time and sort that out. If the issue is he simply doesn't want to be here, that's obviously a different issue.

And PD knows what the issue really is. It's one or the other.

A signed DeBrincat should return a pretty penny if it goes that route.

 

[BondraTime]

Seems everyone is trying to buy time here

How I see this playing out is the team elects arbitration which puts things off until roughly early August.

The sale should be long completed by then and provide DeBrincat with plenty of time to meet with new ownership. If the issue is not wanting to sign because he an be traded in year one, well then arbitration is the way to buy time and sort that out. If the issue is he simply doesn't want to be here, that's obviously a different issue.

And PD knows what the issue really is. It's one or the other.

A signed DeBrincat should return a pretty penny if it goes that route.

He’ll be brought to arbitration on Thursday without a doubt.

I think the issue with a signed return is the list, as there is realistically probably going to be only Detroit that both wants to trade for, and is on his list. Like Friedman said yesterday after naming who was on the list, he’s heard/thinks (can’t remember the exact vernacular, which makes a huge dofferenc) that Ottawa isn’t going to let teams talk to DBC before a trade.

Like you said, Dorion knows the issue, and he’s not going to let another Duchene/Stone string along happen.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 3 weeks, I’d be very surprised if it went past the 28th.

Dorion saying that they’re interviewing guys in the top 15 because they might trade a guy for a pick in that range as well, him being this candid on his interviews about what’s on the table was refreshing.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I agree that Cat won’t get 9 per on a long term deal but KK was coming off a 29 point season and who had generally been disappointing in his career. Quite different leverage than Cat who has several 40+ goal seasons.

Oh for sure. I just don't actually think he'll get 9.000 from anyone including Ottawa, unless it's a 1yr deal.

I've maintained ~8.250 long-term since Ottawa got him FWIW

 

[Micklebot]

Seems everyone is trying to buy time here

How I see this playing out is the team elects arbitration which puts things off until roughly early August.

The sale should be long completed by then and provide DeBrincat with plenty of time to meet with new ownership. If the issue is not wanting to sign because he an be traded in year one, well then arbitration is the way to buy time and sort that out. If the issue is he simply doesn't want to be here, that's obviously a different issue.

And PD knows what the issue really is. It's one or the other.

A signed DeBrincat should return a pretty penny if it goes that route.

The only caveat is kicking the can down the road to Aug means 2023 draft picks are out of the mix. That could be a mixed blessing since a 2023 pick from VGK, Fla, or Dal probably isn't worth as much as a 2024 pick, while Det picks might be worth more than a 2024 pick, but otherwise the draft is a bit of an artificial deadline.

That said, it will be harder for teams to fit him in after free agency. Lots of moving parts.

 

[Cosmix]

Seems everyone is trying to buy time here

How I see this playing out is the team elects arbitration which puts things off until roughly early August.

The sale should be long completed by then and provide DeBrincat with plenty of time to meet with new ownership. If the issue is not wanting to sign because he an be traded in year one, well then arbitration is the way to buy time and sort that out. If the issue is he simply doesn't want to be here, that's obviously a different issue.

And PD knows what the issue really is. It's one or the other.

A signed DeBrincat should return a pretty penny if it goes that route.

I doubt that Debrincat wants to wait until new ownership is in place; I see that as a stalling tactic. I think it probably is related to the Senators AAV offered and NMC/NTC, and his preference for living in Detroit or another USA city.

 

[Big Muddy]

I doubt that Debrincat wants to wait until new ownership is in place; I see that as a stalling tactic. I think it probably is related to the Senators AAV offered and NMC/NTC, and his preference for living in Detroit or another USA city.

Yes, from listening to the Dorion podcast interview (Locked on Senators?) which was about a week ago (?), I think Dorion has already given Debrincat/his agent their offer already. He mentioned something about 10 days iirc in that podcast which I assume was the deadline for Debrincat to come back with his answer. So, in my mind, it seems very likely that the Debrincat camp has responded unfavorably to that initial offer. Just reading the tea leaves here.

I can see why the $9 m QO would be attractive to Debrincat. Not only would he get paid $9 m, but his new long term contract after the expiration of the QO year could then include a NMC. That would protect him from having to move his family. Whether the Senators want to do that though is another story.

Its an interesting plot for sure.

 

[aragorn]

I doubt the DBC camp is waiting to see who the new ownership group is, what do players care about that, the vast majority of their interaction is with each other not ownership. It's not like DBC is Crosby or McDavid, it's going to be Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, Norris & Chabot that will likely have more interaction with ownership.

I think eventually DBC & Ottawa will come to a resolution, but Ottawa still needs to find a #1goalie & add a little muscle to it's lineup. IMO they need to move on from Brannstrom, Joseph, Gambrell, Kelly & maybe Gauthier although of these 5 I think he has the most potential to break out with the right linemates.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I doubt the DBC camp is waiting to see who the new ownership group is, what do players care about that, the vast majority of their interaction is with each other not ownership. It's not like DBC is Crosby or McDavid, it's going to be Tkachuk, Stutzle, Giroux, Norris & Chabot that will likely have more interaction with ownership.

I think eventually DBC & Ottawa will come to a resolution, but Ottawa still needs to find a #1goalie & add a little muscle to it's lineup. IMO they need to move on from Brannstrom, Joseph, Gambrell, Kelly & maybe Gauthier although of these 5 I think he has the most potential to break out with the right linemates.

I think the idea is that if he signs a long term deal now, he doesn’t want to find out that new owners want the team to head in a different direction a few weeks from now and he finds himself traded without control and an 8 year sentence.

It does actually make sense to wait, if where you spend the next 8 years with your young family is really important to you.

Anyways, it’s a persistent rumour out there so it can’t really be thrown aside anymore than surmising that he wants to leave based on his silence in the media.

Frustratingly we’ll just have to wait to see how it all shakes out.

 

[JD1]

I think the idea is that if he signs a long term deal now, he doesn’t want to find out that new owners want the team to head in a different direction a few weeks from now and he finds himself traded without control and an 8 year sentence.

It does actually make sense to wait, if where you spend the next 8 years with your young family is really important to you.

Anyways, it’s a persistent rumour out there so it can’t really be thrown aside anymore than surmising that he wants to leave based on his silence in the media.

Frustratingly we’ll just have to wait to see how it all shakes out.

I agree.

He has the cards. PD can make all the promises he wants but he very well might get canned.

If i was him and i had an interest in staying, in this situation I'd wait until i could speak with someone that could give me that assurance. Currently, no one can.

And as I said earlier, PD knows what the real issue is. If he's given DeBrincat an offer that's acceptable to DeBrincat, there's still no guarantee that new ownership and a new GM doesn't ship him out