Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[DaveMatthew]

I got the sense from the Steve Warne article that DeBrincat was unsure that the GM/coach would stay if there are new owners. As in, a new owner could come in with a new GM, new coach and radically alter the team as constructed right now.

That would make sense, I think, but then you'd think we'd be hearing about how Debrincat and Dorion are engaged in negotiations (where I assume DBC would seek a full NMC to protect himself) instead of having no discussions at all. Which is what's been reported.

 

[Micklebot]

That's pretty funny. Surely if DeBrincat wanted to know where he stood in Ottawa's plans he and his agent would have engaged the Senators in contract discussions on one of the numerous occasions they tried to get a dialogue started.

Idk that seems to me like he's worried if he signs a deal now when new owners come in theyll trade him off.

Lots of players don't talk contracts mid season..

 

[Micklebot]

where I assume DBC would seek a full NMC to protect himself

Once again, he's not eligible until 2024 season starts

 

[DaveMatthew]

Idk that seems to me like he's worried if he signs a deal now when new owners come in theyll trade him off.

Lots of players don't talk contracts mid season..

NTC and NMC are standard asks in negotiations with players of Debrincat's ilk, so one would assume asking for one of those would be a better path to staying in Ottawa than not negotiating at all, if he wants to stay in Ottawa.

 

[BondraTime]

Idk that seems to me like he's worried if he signs a deal now when new owners come in theyll trade him off.

Lots of players don't talk contracts mid season..

I mean, the season ended 2 months ago. The draft is in less than 3 weeks. Sens undoubtedly started talking extension with DBC a year ago, as Dorion said at the trade they would begin on July 12th.

Clearly the Sens have reached out in the past 2 months, as we know they were waiting on word from DBC, and DBC and agent aren't willing to discuss a contract.

Dorion told us they needed an answer by the draft. We seem to have gotten it.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Once again, he's not eligible until 2024 season starts

Still doesn't add up.

If he wanted to be here, he wouldn't be unwilling to discuss an extension in Ottawa while being willing to discuss an extension in several other cities.

His agent would go to Dorion and think of way to get Debrincat an extension while protecting him. Aka. negotiating.

It's so bizarre that people are trying to make this be more than it is.

Player gets traded to a city with 1 year left on his contract. Once that contract ends, player declines to discuss an extension with the team that traded for him. He provides that team with a list of places he would be willing to extend with.

There's no need to read between the lines! For whatever reason (maybe it's the city, maybe it's the coach, maybe it's his wife, maybe it's his baby...), he doesn't want to be here. That's his right. It is what it is.

"No no no he really does want to be here he just doesn't want to figure out a contract so that he can be here..."

 

[Micklebot]

I mean, the season ended 2 months ago. The draft is in less than 3 weeks.

Clearly the Sens have reached out, as we know they were waiting on word from DBC, and DBC and agent aren't willing to discuss a contract.

Team went on sale in Nov, at that point, he has zero assurance that the guy he agrees to a contract with is still around once the team sells.

So sure, he could agree to a deal in May, and then runs the risk Dorion is canned in Jul and the new guy hates small players so trades him to somewhere he has no interest in being.

 

[Golden_Jet]

NTC and NMC are standard asks in negotiations with players of Debrincat's ilk, so one would assume asking for one of those would be a better path to staying in Ottawa than not negotiating at all, if he wants to stay in Ottawa.

If he signs an extension, he’s not eligible for NTC in his new contract in year 1, he is eligible for it to be put in , years 2-8 of a deal.

 

[Micklebot]

Still doesn't add up.

If he wanted to be here, he wouldn't be unwilling to discuss an extension in Ottawa while being willing to discuss an extension in several other cities.

His agent would go to Dorion and think of way to get Debrincat an extension while protecting him. Aka. negotiating.

Sure it does, he signs here he could be traded anywhere in two month when the new owner hires a GM that's allergic to small wingers. Any team trading assets for him now is highly unlikely to flip him in a year after signing him to a 8 yr deal.

 

[Micklebot]

NTC and NMC are standard asks in negotiations with players of Debrincat's ilk, so one would assume asking for one of those would be a better path to staying in Ottawa than not negotiating at all, if he wants to stay in Ottawa.

Not eligible until UFA years, he can negotiate one but it won't kick in until 2024

 

[BondraTime]

Team went on sale in Nov, at that point, he has zero assurance that the guy he agrees to a contract with is still around once the team sells.

So sure, he could agree to a deal in May, and then runs the risk Dorion is canned in Jul and the new guy hates small players so trades him to somewhere he has no interest in being.

Absolutely, that's a possible reason.

I think it's incredibly, incredibly unlikely compared to every other possible reason.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

If that really is a reason then holding onto him and hoping a deal is made during the sason might be better than just sensing him to Detroit for scraps.

We are trying to be competitive this year after all, no?

 

[DaveMatthew]

Sure it does, he signs here he could be traded anywhere in two month when the new owner hires a GM that's allergic to small wingers. Any team trading assets for him now is highly unlikely to flip him in a year after signing him to a 8 yr deal.

Yeah maybe. Or he'd rather go play somewhere else (i.e. the cities on his list which, surprise suprise, were mostly warm and low tax), and he's making that happen.

I guess we'll never know because we won't have a new owner by the draft and, based on reports, we're not keeping him past the draft.

So it's moot. He won't be here.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah maybe. Or he'd rather go play somewhere else, and he's making that happen.

Good point, probably nothing imminent unless great deal on the table then, if source is accurate.

 

[BondraTime]

If that really is a reason then holding onto him and hoping a deal is made during the sason might be better than just sensing him to Detroit for scraps.

We are trying to be competitive this year after all, no?

That reason isn't likely going to be solved, Dorion is here for this year because the sale has taken too long. New owner won't be able to take over until the Season/Training camp begins at the earliest. He is a very likely candidate to be replaced in May/June regardless what happens with the team, as the new owner likely wants his own people.

There isn't any way DBC will get an assurance that Dorion is going to stay, or that a new GM will want to keep him, prior to July 1, 2024.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

That reason isn't likely going to be solved, Dorion is here for this year because the sale has taken too long. He is a very likely candidate to be replaced in May/June regardless what happens with the team.

There isn't any way DBC will get an assurance that Dorion is going to stay, or that a new GM will want tpo keep him, prior to July 1, 2024.

So then he gets assurance he stays, no? If Dorion is here until July 1st, 2024, his hypothetical NTC would kick in right then.

 

[DaveMatthew]

So then he gets assurance he stays, no? If Dorion is here until July 1st, 2024, his hypothetical NTC would kick in right then.

Dorion could still trade him. There's no way to give him 100% assurance if a NTC cannot kick in until 24/25. No team in the league can offer him that guarantee.

Let me paint a picture. Vegas is on his list. He gets traded there and signs 8x8 in July. But come February, Auston Matthews is still unsigned. Word gets through to Vegas that Matthews has his eyes set on them.

Guess what they'll do? Start looking into trading Debrincat to clear cap space.

Maybe he goes to Dallas and has 10 goals after 50 games. The coach is fired. Jim Nill, in the last year of his deal, moves on. Calgary comes calling and thinks they can fix him. Guess what Dallas will do? Trade him.

If he extends this summer, DBC will face the same risk regardless where he goes. If he wants to guarantee that he can pick his spot, he'll walk himself to UFA. That's the only way to make sure he doesn't end up in Winnipeg.

That's why at the end of the day, he either really wants to be here and accepts some risk of things going south with new owners, or he doesn't care all that much if he's somewhere else. Sounds like he doesn't care all that much if he's somewhere else.

 

[BondraTime]

So then he gets assurance he stays, no? If Dorion is here until July 1st, his hypothetical NTC would kick in right then.

Dorion very likely won't be here July 1st. Just like the Leafs with Treliving, Pens with Dubas/whomever, Flames with Conroy, Flyers with Briere, the Sens are likely to make a change quickly after the season is over. It's nearly impossible to get a guarentee that a new GM won't be coming in.

He could sign with his NMC kicking in, Sens could hire a new GM May 6th, then there's the hypothetical chance he could still be traded in the next 2 months that this reason relies on.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion very likely likely wouldn't be here July 1st. Just like the Leafs with Treliving, Pens with Dubas/whomever, Flames with Conroy, Flyers with Briere, the Sens are likely to make a change quickly after the season is over. It's nearly impossible to get a guarentee that a new GM won't be coming in

Its rare but also not out of the question for a mid season firing as well. If the team really stumbled, could see new owners axing both Dorion and DJ for interim solutions till the summer.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Dorion could still trade him. There's no way to give him 100% assurance if a NTC cannot kick in until 24/25. No team in the league can offer him that guarantee.

Let me paint a picture. Vegas is on his list. He gets traded there and signs 8x8 in July. But come February, Auston Matthews is still unsigned. Word gets through to Vegas that Matthews has his eyes set on them.

Guess what they'll do? Start looking into trading Debrincat.

Right, which is why I’m skeptical of this theory. There is going to be uncertainty with a GM who’s missed the playoffs six straight years regardless of who owns the team.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Lol, wtf.

I don't get the argument. What about ownership could he be concerned about?

From the sound of the article, it makes it seem like a long term deal isn't on the table for him.

Its convenient but a lot to shake out when the new owners are named. Does he care if its Kimmel bros or Andlauer? Not sure why he would . New Management, new coaching probably on the horizon somewhere within a year. He won't have all those answers and I am not sure why it would be his priority. Sounds like he's fine with playing out the year which he should be for 8+m.

All his agent Jackson has to say is .. lets work something out to keep him in Ottawa if he is happy to stay.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah maybe. Or he'd rather go play somewhere else (i.e. the cities on his list which, surprise suprise, were mostly warm and low tax), and he's making that happen.

I guess we'll never know because we won't have a new owner by the draft and, based on reports, we're not keeping him past the draft.

So it's moot. He won't be here.

He picked his home town and a bunch of established teams that would have difficulty fitting him in under the cap. If the team is saying they want to trade him, he isn't making it easy, so it doesn't sound like a guy that desperately wants out.

Just look around these forums, there are lots of diverging opinions on whether signing him would even be in the teams beat interest, I'm sure he and his agent understand that there's no guarantee whoever new ownership brings in will be in the keep him camp. So right now he's potentially weighing his options, sign now with zero guarantee where he plays next season, or don't sign until the uncertainty drops.

The team on the other hand is protecting its interests, asks him teams he'd consider extending with. If Det isnt interested, we might have a hard time finding a trading partner.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

He picked his home town and a bunch of established teams that would have difficulty fitting him in under the cap. If the team is saying they want to trade him, he isn't making it easy, so it doesn't sound like a guy that desperately wants out.

Just look around these forums, there are lots of diverging opinions on whether signing him would even be in the teams beat interest, I'm sure he and his agent understand that there's no guarantee whoever new ownership brings in will be in the keep him camp. So right now he's potentially weighing his options, sign now with zero guarantee where he plays next season, or don't sign until the uncertainty drops.

The team on the other hand is protecting its interests, asks him teams he'd consider extending with. If Det isnt interested, we might have a hard time finding a trading partner.

Rentals of his calibre usually get late 1sts and maybe an ok prospect at the deadline. That might not even be what Detroit is offering us now.

If we're out-leveraged and Detroit is just offering us scraps, keep him until the deadline and see if we can make the playoffs. There will be way more buyers able to take him on then, and who knows, there's a small chance they can work out an extension (not betting on it).

 

[Micklebot]

Rentals of his calibre usually get late 1sts and maybe an ok prospect at the deadline. That might be what Detroit is offering us now.

If we're out-leveraged and Detroit is just offering us scraps, keep him until the deadline and see if we can make the playoffs.

Yeah, that's an option, and ironically it would provide ample time for him to get the warm fuzzies about new ownerships direction if that's truely what is currently preventing him from extending

 

[BondraTime]

He picked his home town and a bunch of established teams that would have difficulty fitting him in under the cap. If the team is saying they want to trade him, he isn't making it easy, so it doesn't sound like a guy that desperately wants out.

Just look around these forums, there are lots of diverging opinions on whether signing him would even be in the teams beat interest, I'm sure he and his agent understand that there's no guarantee whoever new ownership brings in will be in the keep him camp. So right now he's potentially weighing his options, sign now with zero guarantee where he plays next season, or don't sign until the uncertainty drops.

The team on the other hand is protecting its interests, asks him teams he'd consider extending with. If Det isnt interested, we might have a hard time finding a trading partner.

He doesn’t want out of Ottawa right now, it’s not a trade demand. He just doesn’t want to sign with Ottawa long term for the next 8 years. He wants to sign with one of those teams as a UFA, if Ottawa has a trade to make that happen a year early, awesome. If they don’t, he’s got an 8+ million dollar deal to UFA. If they trade him somewhere he doesn’t want to be, he plays a year and goes to UFA.

I don’t think DBC is too worried about getting to his desired spot right away. If he does, awesome, if he doesn’t, he’s got an 8 million dollar ticket to UFA, then his desired spot.

That’s the route that, to me, is incredibly obviously happening.