Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Ice-Tray]

Absolutely, reasonable assumptions.

What teams are generally active in UFA and attractive spots for guys? Vegas, NYR, Tampa, etc. Most of these, are not in the market, or able to add him. That doesn’t mean he won’t have them on his list. It’s just places he’d be willing to play. And as a UFA, that’s usually good teams.

DBC isn’t giving out a list of teams that would be willing to trade for him and get him in, he’s giving a list of places that he’d be willing to but his UFA years. Those places, almost always, are populated with the same teams, give one or two depending on who it is (Detroit on his, not on most)

The same way Stone gave the Sens a list he’d be willing to sign with, but the only team dealing for him that he was willing to sign an extension was Vegas. Islanders were a team looking to trade for him, but he wasn’t willing to sign there. Likewise with Winnipeg.

Lebrun expects Vegas, Dallas, Tampa, Nashville, etc.

More likely that he’s giving a list of destinations that he could legitimately end up in with an extension. He’s owed nothing from the team, so it’s preferred realistic destinations that could accommodate him, because, you know, he’d like to end up in one of the places.

This situation has nothing related to the Stone situation in either desire to stay, or pressing need to trade, or number of trade destinations, or leveraged deadline.

Come on dude….

 

[GCK]

To Detroit
Alex Debrincat

To Ottawa
NYI 1st 2023 17th Overall
DET 3rd 2023

--

To Ottawa
Clayton Keller

To Arizona
Ridly Greig
NYI 1st 2023
OTT 1st 2024

Are you nuts. That’s a massive overpay.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Absolutely, reasonable assumptions.

What teams are generally active in UFA and attractive spots for guys? Vegas, NYR, Tampa, etc. Most of these, are not in the market, or able to add him. That doesn’t mean he won’t have them on his list. It’s just places he’d be willing to play. And as a UFA, that’s usually good teams.

DBC isn’t giving out a list of teams that would be willing to trade for him and get him in, he’s giving a list of places that he’d be willing to but his UFA years. Those places, almost always, are populated with the same teams, give one or two depending on who it is (Detroit on his, not on most)

The same way Stone gave the Sens a list he’d be willing to sign with, but the only team dealing for him that he was willing to sign an extension was Vegas. Islanders were a team looking to trade for him, but he wasn’t willing to sign there. Likewise with Winnipeg.

Lebrun expects Vegas, Dallas, Tampa, Nashville, etc.

You're operating under the assumption that ADC has all the leverage. He doesn't. His lack of leverage will cause his decision to be based on anything from a reasonable outcome to a dream scenario. That opens up a lot more teams than you're making it sound like.

In other words, no, it doesn't only come down to the Tampa's or NYR's. It comes down to any place that meets the criteria of: money, competitiveness and good place to settle down and likely start a family. I would think all CDN teams are out but most US teams are in, if he's being realistic.

This is under the assumption that he doesn't want to go UFA since, in reality nothing will really change in 1 year, he'll just be going through the whole process over again which generally young players are averse to doing.

Also, using your criteria why is Tampa on your list??? Tampa is a nice place to live but is a roll of the dice on being competitive down the road.

If he's smart and being reasonable he has tendered a list of multiple teams and is making it easy for the SENS to get him to a spot that is somewhere between good and great for him and his family but being picky will not serve him well.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Are you nuts. That’s a massive overpay.

Clayton Keller is a PPG winger 10 months younger than Cat, taller not by much. Has success without generational linemates.

The part that makes him worth it? 7.15Mx5yrs left on that contract. Way cheaper than Cat and locked up. The chances any of the pieces you give up turn into that kind of player are slim.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

The part that makes him worth it? 7.15Mx5yrs left on that contract. Way cheaper than Cat and locked up. The chances any of the pieces you give up turn into that kind of player are slim.

Ottawa doesn’t need another premier scorer. They need a complementary player for the 2nd line and depth. I’d rather go after Crouse.

 

[GCK]

Clayton Keller is a PPG winger 10 months younger than Cat, taller not by much. Has success without generational linemates.

The part that makes him worth it? 7.15Mx5yrs left on that contract. Way cheaper than Cat and locked up. The chances any of the pieces you give up turn into that kind of player are slim.

A 1st, Greig and Debrincat is way too much.

 

[PlayersLtd]

Ottawa doesn’t need another premier scorer. They need a complementary player for the 2nd line and depth. I’d rather go after Crouse.

You quote glitched there somehow. But while were at it I completely agree with what you think we need.

 

[GCK]

I could see both Colorado and Nashville being interested but the returns don’t fit. Maybe a 3 way deal where Colorado gives up futures and we get a return from Arizona or Philly.

I’d add to Debrincat for Hart and Laughton (I think Koneckny is not liked by Giroux).

From Arizona I’d love Crouse but I think they will be desperate to unload Schmalz due to his actual salary.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ottawa doesn’t need another premier scorer. They need a complementary player for the 2nd line and depth. I’d rather go after Crouse.

I can get behind this too, though not for the originally posted package of course.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't know how inclined I'd be to operate off DeBrincat's list. He doesn't have any trade protection and can't really call his shot here, so if the best offer happens to be from some other team then I'm shipping him there regardless. The Sens don't owe him anything - they paid a substantial price to acquire him and then dished out 9M in salary only to have the guy give them one of his worst seasons as a pro and then dip out.

That said, it's going to be a difficult deal to make. It's just hard to find very many fits - lots of teams just can't accommodate him into their cap structure and many of the teams that can simply aren't going to be interested in him.

There's a chance here for a club like Detroit to get this guy for way less than what his value should be. Could easily see him going for something like Kubalik/Fabbri + two 2nds.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't know how inclined I'd be to operate off DeBrincat's list. He doesn't have any trade protection and can't really call his shot here, so if the best offer happens to be from some other team then I'm shipping him there regardless. The Sens don't owe him anything - they paid a substantial price to acquire him and then dished out 9M in salary only to have the guy give them one of his worst seasons as a pro and then dip out.

That said, it's going to be a difficult deal to make. It's just hard to find very many fits - lots of teams just can't accommodate him into their cap structure and many of the teams that can simply aren't going to be interested in him.

There's a chance here for a club like Detroit to get this guy for way less than what his value should be. Could easily see him going for something like Kubalik/Fabbri + two 2nds.

Eh, trade him to the best offer, and maybe that’s a place that knows they can get an extension. Or QO and arbitrate him and play him until the TDL. At that point you can get at least some primo picks and prospects from a playoff hopeful.

Not ideal, but if the offers suck, that’s the leverage. I suspect we’ll get some good offers from several teams that know they can extend him. This isn’t a time sensitive, or limited market situation at all. It’s more EK than Stone.

 

[Ouroboros]

Eh, trade him to the best offer, and maybe that’s a place that knows they can get an extension. Or QO and arbitrate him and play him until the TDL. At that point you can get at least some primo picks and prospects from a playoff hopeful.

Not ideal, but if the offers suck, that’s the leverage. I suspect we’ll get some good offers from several teams that know they can extend him. This isn’t a time sensitive, or limited market situation at all. It’s more EK than Stone.

I don't know that I'd even be willing to let him speak to teams. When you look at what these sort of players return in trade, whether the player is willing to immediately sign an extension doesn't seem to move the needle all that much.

Fiala extended in LA and he brought back a mid-1st and Brock Faber. Horvat extended in NYI and brought back a mid-1st, Aatu Raty and Anthony Beauvillier, who was largely viewed as a cap dump with minimal value. When the Sens traded Pageau to NYI he extended and they only got a 1st and 2nd back. Teams give up those sort of packages for rentals at the deadline every year.

The downside of letting the player speak with teams is that you give him the power to push the process in the direction he wants it to go. That's what happened with Mark Stone - he killed deals with 3 or 4 teams and basically landed himself in Vegas. Teams are not inclined to negotiate against themselves.

I wouldn't bring DeBrincat back next year under any circumstances. He wasn't nearly a good enough fit here for me to even entertain the notion, and I'd prefer to have the freedom to make other things happen if possible.

Not only that, but you're opening the door to all sorts of risk. What if he tears his ACL or destroys his shoulder and goes on the shelf for 8 months? Then you get nothing. What if he has another sub-par year and tanks his value? What if having a guy that isn't committed causes some friction in the room? We don't need that sort of thing.

Just take the standard rental value [mid/late 1st and a depth winger] and move on.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I don't know how inclined I'd be to operate off DeBrincat's list. He doesn't have any trade protection and can't really call his shot here, so if the best offer happens to be from some other team then I'm shipping him there regardless. The Sens don't owe him anything - they paid a substantial price to acquire him and then dished out 9M in salary only to have the guy give them one of his worst seasons as a pro and then dip out.

That said, it's going to be a difficult deal to make. It's just hard to find very many fits - lots of teams just can't accommodate him into their cap structure and many of the teams that can simply aren't going to be interested in him.

There's a chance here for a club like Detroit to get this guy for way less than what his value should be. Could easily see him going for something like Kubalik/Fabbri + two 2nds.

100%. The assumption though is that the best offer is from a team that knows he will resign. I assume PD will let him talk to teams on his list as it serves our interest. A very good scenario would be something like this:

His list has 5-10 teams.
He talks to + - 5.
3 teams commit to an offer he likes.
We play those three off each other and maximize the return.

The good thing in this is that once teams start down the road they will be inclined to up the ante a bit and get a deal done. No sense negotiating with a marquee player without being ready to offer a good package. I'm not exactly holding my breath on a massive return but this is why the people crapping on the move to bring him in in the first place are speaking too soon.

What's better DCat at $4.5M and a QO of $9M or DCat locked up at 8x7?

It's not entirely impossible that under the right circumstances and with some wizardry by PD we recoup all of the 7th OA that we originally gave away.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't know that I'd even be willing to let him speak to teams. When you look at what these sort of players return in trade, whether the player is willing to immediately sign an extension doesn't seem to move the needle all that much.

Fiala extended in LA and he brought back a mid-1st and Brock Faber. Horvat extended in NYI and brought back a mid-1st, Aatu Raty and Anthony Beauvillier, who was largely viewed as a cap dump with minimal value. When the Sens traded Pageau to NYI he extended and they only got a 1st and 2nd back. Teams give up those sort of packages for rentals at the deadline every year.

The downside of letting the player speak with teams is that you give him the power to push the process in the direction he wants it to go. That's what happened with Mark Stone - he killed deals with 3 or 4 teams and basically landed himself in Vegas. Teams are not inclined to negotiate against themselves.

I wouldn't bring DeBrincat back next year under any circumstances. He wasn't nearly a good enough fit here for me to even entertain the notion, and I'd prefer to have the freedom to make other things happen if possible.

Not only that, but you're opening the door to all sorts of risk. What if he tears his ACL or destroys his shoulder and goes on the shelf for 8 months? Then you get nothing. What if he has another sub-par year and tanks his value? What if having a guy that isn't committed causes some friction in the room? We don't need that sort of thing.

Just take the standard rental value [mid/late 1st and a depth winger] and move on.

I wouldn’t let him speak to teams either, at least not initially. I’d simply let teams know that they were on his list.

Up to them to make the deal, No word on who is favoured, no opportunity to cancel out other places and whittle down he list.

Your on the list trade for him and if you do the right things he’ll sign a deal. That’s how you maximize that leverage.

As for brining him back, you roll with it if you have to, like Avs did with Doosh, and Coyotes did with Chychrun, and more…

At best it’s leverage to make sure that you are the one setting the deadline, and it’s past what most teams want for their rosters going into the year, especially for a star player.

You don’t WANT to start the year with him, but he’s saying all the right things, and he’ll be a good player for us regardless. No artificial deadlines please

I do understand your position though.

 

[Soundgarden]

Everyone loves Nashville, gotta be on the list, come on PD convince them to trade Saros, and that Askarov and remaining goalies will be fine for them.

Nashville fan here, DeBrincat doesn't really feel like a fit here, we have way too many wingers coming up to be going after him, especially if you guys are asking for a Parssinen, Tomasino or Askarov.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

I bought a Silfverberg jersey and a month later he was traded for Bobby.
I bid and won a Filatov jersey, 3 days later he bailed to Russia and never came back.

Heh. Mine was a Havlat jersey I got as a birthday gift before we dealt him for Preissing and Hennessy.

Also, LMAO at "I wouldn't bring DeBrincat back next year under any circumstances." We're not talking about Heatley here. The guy isn't gonna poison the room.

 

[bert]

Honestly I wish we wrnt for Garland last off-season. He's a tenacious forechexker who's excellent 5on5.

Another midget. No thanks.

At least we have the most experienced gm working from a corner. He should be pretty good at wiggling out by now. Maybe he does it intentionally. Maybe he’s a weirdo masochist.

No one knows how to de value an asset like PD. Oh yeah he is great at it look at Mark Stone Mike Hoffman Mika Zibanejad. Get this clown out of here. Making this original deal without an extension is the cherry on top of his horrid trades.

 

[bert]

To Detroit
Alex Debrincat

To Ottawa
NYI 1st 2023 17th Overall
DET 3rd 2023

--

To Ottawa
Clayton Keller

To Arizona
Ridly Greig
NYI 1st 2023
OTT 1st 2024

First one is realistic. Second one is not. This team absolutely cannot trade any more picks and prospects. They aren't knocking on the door. You don't make these types of trades when you are This far away and frankly that's not the type of player this team is missing. They aren't missing high end skill. Another undersized player is not the answer. If they can flip the return for DBC into Crouse then great but nothing extra.

You're operating under the assumption that ADC has all the leverage. He doesn't. His lack of leverage will cause his decision to be based on anything from a reasonable outcome to a dream scenario. That opens up a lot more teams than you're making it sound like.

In other words, no, it doesn't only come down to the Tampa's or NYR's. It comes down to any place that meets the criteria of: money, competitiveness and good place to settle down and likely start a family. I would think all CDN teams are out but most US teams are in, if he's being realistic.

This is under the assumption that he doesn't want to go UFA since, in reality nothing will really change in 1 year, he'll just be going through the whole process over again which generally young players are averse to doing.

Also, using your criteria why is Tampa on your list??? Tampa is a nice place to live but is a roll of the dice on being competitive down the road.

If he's smart and being reasonable he has tendered a list of multiple teams and is making it easy for the SENS to get him to a spot that is somewhere between good and great for him and his family but being picky will not serve him well.

Lol what?.... Why on earth do people think Tampa is a roll of the dice?.... All their players are still in their prime. Just signed everyone else for 7 years hahaha.

The last paragraph I'd also fantasy. He signed that contract originally for this exact type of situation and leverage. He doesn't care about anyone else but himself. That's why he did it. His list will be his preferred destinations 100 percent. He's just going to be a ufa next year and that was always his plan.

 

[Wondercarrot]

1. ADB is a big time scorer who had a somewhat understandable off year, and any team looking for scoring would be lucky to get him. There will be a market.

2. If he is submitting a list of teams it only makes sense that they are ones with whom he’d sign a longterm deal otherwise why submit a list? He’s got no say in the matter.

3. His agent suggesting he’d be happy to play another year in Ottawa, well no shit - young guy with a new family is not especially interested in moving again for one year then them all moving again.

4. He didn’t ask for a trade and he’s got the right to do what he wants but also f*** him if he doesn’t want to be here.

5. I think I’m probably perfectly fine whichever way it works out.
- we trade him and use the assets and space to make the mix better/different.
- we sign him and he scores 40
- we take him to arbitration, then keep him until the deadline if needed and then retain half his salary regardless of where we are in the standings or how he’s playing. What’s the going deadline rate for a guy on pace for 40+ with a cap hit of 1.5 million, a lot I’ll bet.

This is all going to work out fine IMO however it goes. We got him cheaply, and are going to recoup decent value.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Clayton Keller is a PPG winger 10 months younger than Cat, taller not by much. Has success without generational linemates.

The part that makes him worth it? 7.15Mx5yrs left on that contract. Way cheaper than Cat and locked up. The chances any of the pieces you give up turn into that kind of player are slim.

Debrincat plus 2 firsts and Grieg for Keller, that’s crazy

 

[Larionov]

At least everyone is accepting the fact that we are going to have to trade him, so we are moving past the denial stage. That's progress, I suppose.

There's no way that this deal comes without him signing an extension with his new team. That's the way his new team gets security, and it's how we maximize our return. What's in it for DeBrincat? He gets to sign an eight year deal, not seven, and he gets out of Ottawa a year early to a destination largely of his choosing. (I overwhelmingly suspect that his wife was not happy here and wanted to get back to the States. It happens - it's why Gaudreau wanted out of Calgary.) I just can't see a team acquiring him and hoping they can extend him - as an old boss of mine was fond of saying, "Hope is not a strategy." It's either a sign and trade, or his agent has verbally agreed to terms with his new team.

 

[SENStastic]

If Nashville is on his preferred list, meaning he'd be willing to sign an extension with that team, then Saros would be a great target assuming Nashville is heading for a small rebuild/retool for the next few years. Saros is 28 and they'd be wasting the last few years of his prime by the time they are on the upswing again, and he's one of the better trade pieces they have available to get assets back to reload. DB will still be in his prime at 28-29. They also would have Askarov ready to take the helm by then.

If we can nab an established legit starting goalie, we'd fill our biggest remaining need. I'd try to sign Bertuzzi this offseason as well to fill his spot, he fits our play style well on 2nd line and should be alot more budget friendly, im guessing $6m aav on 4-5 year contract maybe? Not sure, but would be pretty ideal and leaves us with good cap flexibilty going forwards.

 

[BondraTime]

At least everyone is accepting the fact that we are going to have to trade him, so we are moving past the denial stage. That's progress, I suppose.

There's no way that this deal comes without him signing an extension with his new team. That's the way his new team gets security, and it's how we maximize our return. What's in it for DeBrincat? He gets to sign an eight year deal, not seven, and he gets out of Ottawa a year early to a destination largely of his choosing. (I overwhelmingly suspect that his wife was not happy here and wanted to get back to the States. It happens - it's why Gaudreau wanted out of Calgary.) I just can't see a team acquiring him and hoping they can extend him - as an old boss of mine was fond of saying, "Hope is not a strategy." It's either a sign and trade, or his agent has verbally agreed to terms with his new team.

Debrincat needs to sign in order for that to happen, and he may have all intentions to walk to UFA.

Signing an 8 year deal vs. a 7 year deal doesn’t really factor in at all, as he’s guaranteed an 8 million deal next year already.

If there is a team that DBC want to go to that is looking to trade for him, there’s a good chance he will sign.

I think the number of teams that meet both the pre-requisites of:
1. Willing to pony up and trade for DBC
2. DBC willing to sign an 8 year extension with them
is going to be incredibly small.

I foresee a process where offers come in, and no contract is agreed, even if the team is on the list. Highly doubt DBC has 10 teams he’s willing to sign with, would imagine like pretty much every other guy in the league who can dictate where he goes, it would be a list of 3ish teams. Highly doubt, actually no chance, he's going to let his next 8 years be dictated by who is willing to give the Sens the best offer.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't know that I'd even be willing to let him speak to teams. When you look at what these sort of players return in trade, whether the player is willing to immediately sign an extension doesn't seem to move the needle all that much.

Fiala extended in LA and he brought back a mid-1st and Brock Faber. Horvat extended in NYI and brought back a mid-1st, Aatu Raty and Anthony Beauvillier, who was largely viewed as a cap dump with minimal value. When the Sens traded Pageau to NYI he extended and they only got a 1st and 2nd back. Teams give up those sort of packages for rentals at the deadline every year.

The downside of letting the player speak with teams is that you give him the power to push the process in the direction he wants it to go. That's what happened with Mark Stone - he killed deals with 3 or 4 teams and basically landed himself in Vegas. Teams are not inclined to negotiate against themselves.

I wouldn't bring DeBrincat back next year under any circumstances. He wasn't nearly a good enough fit here for me to even entertain the notion, and I'd prefer to have the freedom to make other things happen if possible.

Not only that, but you're opening the door to all sorts of risk. What if he tears his ACL or destroys his shoulder and goes on the shelf for 8 months? Then you get nothing. What if he has another sub-par year and tanks his value? What if having a guy that isn't committed causes some friction in the room? We don't need that sort of thing.

Just take the standard rental value [mid/late 1st and a depth winger] and move on.

100% this!

We're at the point where we have to stop begging players to stay here. It's a freaking honor to be an NHL player and to get paid millions to play a game. And Ottawa is a great city for a family, and we're going to have legit solid owners in a few (days? weeks? months?) that will bring about a new era for the team and city. Anyone who isn't totally excited and 100% onboard with it in that locker room needs to be jettisoned immediately. No more excuses.

Bring in a big boy who loves to play both ends of the ice and plays a strong physical game with grit and skill. Rock the house down.

 

[Silencio]

lol at DeBrincat's agent saying he'd be happy to play one more year in Ottawa...he'd literally be that meme of the guy holding his girlfriend's hand while whistling at the girl in the red dress. Just cut bait.