Player Discussion Alex DeBrincat

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So, if DBC is traded, how many seasons was he here?

We’re going to pretend it was a big brain play to dress DBC for a year and then reap the rewards of his trade?

So if he’s traded before the next season begins, then the Senators will have received (in the 2022 trace to acquire DBC) one season of DBC and whatever assets are acquired…….. NOT just one season of DBC as you seemed to have implied.

I’m sure PD was well aware of all possible outcomes of the 2022 trade for DBC, and decided that is was worth bringing in DBC, and that the best possible outcome could be made.

Are you suggesting that Ottawa would have better off with Kevin Korchinski, Paul Ludwinski and next year‘s third rounder?

Neither player would have played for the Senators this past season, so Ottawa would have been without Norris, DBC and Talbot (for most of the season)?

With DBC, the Senators were at least in the mix for a playoff spot, and probably could have made the playoffs with Norris and Talbot in the lineup……. DBC May have been a bigger part of the offence if he had Norris or Stutzle as his full time center….. But as I said before, PD does not have a magic 8 ball that would have let him know the future, as some people suggest he should have known.

 

[BondraTime]

So if he’s traded before the next season begins, then the Senators will have received (in the 2022 trace to acquire DBC) one season of DBC and whatever assets are acquired…….. NOT just one season of DBC as you seemed to have implied.

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I’m sure PD was well aware of all possible outcomes of the 2022 trade for DBC, and decided that is was worth bringing in DBC, and that the best possible outcome could be made.

Are you suggesting that Ottawa would have better off with Kevin Korchinski, Paul Ludwinski and next year‘s third rounder?

Neither player would have played for the Senators this past season, so Ottawa would have been without Norris, DBC and Talbot (for most of the season)?

With DBC, the Senators were at least in the mix for a playoff spot, and probably could have made the playoffs with Norris and Talbot in the lineup……. DBC May have been a bigger part of the offence if he had Norris or Stutzle as his full time center….. But as I said before, PD does not have a magic 8 ball that would have let him know the future, as some people suggest he should have known.

Why do you keep saying implying a year of DBC? He’ll be here for a year. We will have traded for a year of DBC. When we trade him away, we will get something back. That doesn’t change that we traded that package for a year of DBC….

Without a doubt, I’m suggesting the Sens are better off with a 7th overall prospect (Korchinski, Kasper, Mintyukov, whomever) +39th overall prospect + a 3rd compared to whatever the Sens are going to get back in a DBC trade for the duration of their window.

Did DBC help the Sens more this past year? Obviously, but, why in the frig does that matter moving forward? I care about the future, not looking at another lost season and reminiscing about what might have happened. They never made the playoffs, the seasons is over. DBC had a poor season, and now is going to be traded. It is what it is.

“The Sens almost made the playoffs with DBC, here’s your sticker!!!!”

What matters isn’t what’s happened, it’s what is ongoing.

Would this iteration of the Sens be better off with DBC or Korchinski + +? We’d likely be happy with a signed DBC. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to matter.

Would this iteration of the Sens be better off with Korchinski + +, or the return on a DBC trade? Without a doubt, what they gave up a year ago. Ergo, shortsighted.

DBC trade brought hype and hope to the Sens, that was the value in the trade, and that succeeded. It never succeeded in trade value with hindsight or foresight without a contract, and he had a poor season.

 

[ottawah]

Trading away a 7th overall + on a bet and hope is foolish.


I never would have believed that the trade for DBC was made without assurances of a contract, as that is the bare minimum in a trade of that magnitude in the offseason, but here we are.

Not really. As he was two years away from UFA that gave leeway.

But more importantly, a lot of people were surprised Debrincat went for such a low price. This is exactly why. The one year left on the deal, the 9M QO, the lack of commitment to sign long term. Players like Debrincat usually generate a lot more than what he did.

 

[Larionov]

Korchinski (selected 7th overall by Chicago with our pick last year) would be ranked about 12th in this year's draft, according to Corey Pronman of The Athletic. He isn't always right, of course (he missed huge on Stutzle, for instance) but his comparison does show that this year's draft is definitely stronger overall from last year's. Therefore, if we were to get, say, the Islanders' first (17th overall) from Detroit plus one other solid prospect or roster player in exchange for DeBrincat, I would say that we at least recovered the value we gave for him and then some. I say Detroit only because I just get the feeling that's where he wants to go, and that's where he would sign an extension given that he is from Michigan. I could also see Carolina or Colorado jumping into the ADB talks - Colorado especially has some space given the Landeskog injury and just how cloudy his long term future is, and they are in win-now mode.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Dorion was trying to assuage 5 years of suffering the moment the shackles were off and was trying to sell some desperately needed hope after hitting Cleveland Browns level rock bottom.

Are people around here saying they would have been ok with it if he was complacent last summer? You would have complained about that too.

There's a lot of judgement around here that is unfortunately clouded by damned if you do damned if you don't standards.

Yep.

Trade for Debrincat: "short-sighted", "didn't need him, we needed more depth", "why trade for him without a contract extension?"
Don't trade for Debrincat: "can't believe they didn't get a guy like Debrincat when he was available", "we would have made the playoffs with Debrincat", "we need more scoring in our top 6"

The fact is, the only reason there's this much scrutiny is because it's Dorion. His involvement made it a lose-lose from the beginning. But if Yzerman had made this kind of trade? Genius.

 

[BondraTime]

Korchinski (selected 7th overall by Chicago with our pick last year) would be ranked about 12th in this year's draft, according to Corey Pronman of The Athletic. He isn't always right, of course (he missed huge on Stutzle, for instance) but his comparison does show that this year's draft is definitely stronger overall from last year's. Therefore, if we were to get, say, the Islanders' first (17th overall) from Detroit plus one other solid prospect or roster player in exchange for DeBrincat, I would say that we at least recovered the value we gave for him and then some. I say Detroit only because I just get the feeling that's where he wants to go, and that's where he would sign an extension given that he is from Michigan. I could also see Carolina or Colorado jumping into the ADB talks - Colorado especially has some space given the Landeskog injury and just how cloudy his long term future is, and they are in win-now mode.

Korchinski was ranked 12th last year as well. The drafts are basically a wash after the top 5. Would gladly take Korchinski at 6 this year.

Pronman had him 19th in last years Draft.

 

[Larionov]

Not really. As he was two years away from UFA that gave leeway.

But more importantly, a lot of people were surprised Debrincat went for such a low price. This is exactly why. The one year left on the deal, the 9M QO, the lack of commitment to sign long term. Players like Debrincat usually generate a lot more than what he did.

100%. We got a huge bargain because of all the factors you outlined, plus the fact that the Hawks were anxious to get started on their rebuild. I still believe, though, that the Hawks panicked a bit and sold even lower than they should have - had they waited until this past trade deadline they could have sold ADB to a contender on the basis of having him for two playoff runs.

Having said all that, I still believe that we can recover at least what we paid, and likely a bit more. A mid-first in this year's draft and a blue chip prospect and we are a little ahead of the game compared to what we paid.

Korchinski was ranked 12th last year as well. The drafts are basically a wash after the top 5.

Good point, and that's usually the case anyway - once you get outside the top five or so (maybe top ten in a really heavy year like 2020) team's draft boards really start to diverge.

 

[ottawah]

100%. We got a huge bargain because of all the factors you outlined, plus the fact that the Hawks were anxious to get started on their rebuild. I still believe, though, that the Hawks panicked a bit and sold even lower than they should have - had they waited until this past trade deadline they could have sold ADB to a contender on the basis of having him for two playoff runs.

Or maybe the Hawks felt their best chance to get Bedard was not to have Debrincat around for 3/4 of the season ........

 

[Silencio]

Giroux did directly reference the DeBrincat trade as one of the factors that convinced him to sign with Ottawa i.e. it was a signal that they were serious about being a competitive team. That has to be taken into account when assessing whether the move was worth it, no matter what ends up happening.

 

[Larionov]

Or maybe the Hawks felt their best chance to get Bedard was not to have Debrincat around for 3/4 of the season ........

Yeah, if you were going to bottom out anyway that was the year to do it alright...

 

[bert]

I said Barbashev did nothing before this year. Is this the first playoff season you've ever watched? He was terrible just last year. Statistically and otherwise.

Now he's the flavourful of the month and the key to winning. What a joke.

He was on a grind line with no pp time last year and was still a physical force in the playoffs. That was his job. He had 60 points that year too and scored a ton at 5 on 5. Now he is elevated to a scoring line and has been fantastic in puck retrieval and posession. He makes plays too. If you think his style of play is the flavour of the month then you must not have been watching hockey very long. Physical heavy hard teams win every year. Do you think the sens are any of those things? The sens have the skill they dont have the rest. After Brady who is hard to play against up front?

 

[PlayersLtd]

I think it was less about hope, and more like a kid in a candy store with daddy's wallet. Dorion was looking to make a big splash and grab a big name...although I think his first target was likely Chychrun. That wasn't available for that price so he pivoted to Cat.

I can't interpret this is anything less than childish conjecture. PD is GM of a pro sports franchise and as others have said is running a business as well. To suggest, based on the very limited behind the scenes info you have, that it was a kid in a candy store type move is really ignorant imo.

On top of that when have the Senators ever had the luxury of candy store spending? Putting aside the win/loss merits of the trade for a sec, if there is one team that has always had to be conscious of making pure hockey deals, it's us.

 

[bert]

So, if DBC is traded, how many seasons was he here?

We’re going to pretend it was a big brain play to dress DBC for a year and then reap the rewards of his trade?

Thats the narrative being pushed around here and its mind numbing. The goal posts have moved. They should have traded him at the deadline last year. You have to establish if he was going to sign by that point. They did not now here we are. They are better off recouping futures and attacking the free agency market. No its not strong but literally no teams that are any good have any cap space or money. The flat cap is again something the sens can take advantage of. When the cap goes up all those teams that are better markets in terms of taxes or exposure are going to have more money again. Believe it or not this is the best type of scenario for a small market team. This opportunity needs to be identified and utilized.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

He was on a grind line with no pp time last year and was still a physical force in the playoffs. That was his job. He had 60 points that year too and scored a ton at 5 on 5. Now he is elevated to a scoring line and has been fantastic in puck retrieval and posession. He makes plays too. If you think his style of play is the flavour of the month then you must not have been watching hockey very long. Physical heavy hard teams win every year. Do you think the sens are any of those things? The sens have the skill they dont have the rest. After Brady who is hard to play against up front?

LOL. I'd hardly call the Lightning a "hard" team. They are skilled primarily but have a balanced lineup. Ditto for the Avalanche.

But that was never the argument. The argument was whether Barbashev is some kind of playoff great. He is not. He's playing great this year, but so is Eichel, so is Marchessault, so is Karlsson. That team is playing great. Someone will overpay for Barbashev, I'd be willing to bet. And they will suffer for it. If he's available for $4-5M? Sure he's a really good player. But to think he'd be some saviour for the Sens is insane.


And fack off with the "you haven't been watching hockey for long" BS you pull every time someone challenges your narrative. Both are way past their best due date. I attended every single Sens playoff game until I moved away in 2008. I saw Gretzky play live as an Oiler. I alternated between 16 and 19 when I played because my favourites as a young child were Clarke and Trottier so piss of with your faux Don Cherry schtick where you think you're the only one who knows about "tough, hard hockey!!!"

 

[bert]

LOL. I'd hardly call the Lightning a "hard" team. They are skilled primarily but have a balanced lineup. Ditto for the Avalanche.

But that was never the argument. The argument was whether Barbashev is some kind of playoff great. He is not. He's playing great this year, but so is Eichel, so is Marchessault, so is Karlsson. That team is playing great. Someone will overpay for Barbashev, I'd be willing to bet. And they will suffer for it. If he's available for $4-5M? Sure he's a really good player. But to think he'd be some saviour for the Sens is insane.


And fack off with the "you haven't been watching hockey for long" BS you pull every time someone challenges your narrative. Both are way past their best due date. I attended every single Sens playoff game until I moved away in 2008. I saw Gretzky play live as an Oiler. I alternated between 16 and 19 when I played because my favourites as a young child were Clarke and Trottier so piss of with your faux Don Cherry schtick where you think you're the only one who knows about "tough, hard hockey!!!"

Tampa literally went out and got a bunch of hard players to fill out the lineup after they got upset by Columbus. The only pure skill player on the team was Kucherov and even he has an edge. Their entire D core except Mcdonough was 6'2 or bigger. And Mcdonough is hard and one of the best defensive D men in hockey. They are absolutely a very hard team, that has a mix of skill into it but not an over abundance. They have guys that play both ways, Palat, Cirelly, Hagel, Killorn, Gourde, Coleman, Goodrow, Paul, . This is what the sens are missing not a pure skill guy. The sens got folded 5 on 5 after the first line because they simply had no depth that was hard to play against and can contribute offensively.

How many skilled right handed shot wingers that have an average motor, arent fast and are are average defensive players do the sens need?.... They already have Batherson and Giroux. Debrincat isnt a good fit. The roster make up is flawed. Those championship teams dont have multiple players like that making big money.... You need a balance, the reason the Eichel Marchessault Barbashev line is effective is because they have different roles. Having a guy that can play hard and with skill players, producing offense is unique and a necessity. Someone needs to go to the net, someone needs to go get the puck someone needs to make the other team think twice about targeting a skill guy. It makes room for them. There needs to be a balance.

Karlsson is having a great playoff because he is a hard player. Players that can skate, play both ways and have size do well in the playoffs its a constant. So maybe you have been watching for a long time but if you cant identify with these types of traits what does that say?

So yes I think switching a Barbashev, or Bertuzzi for Debrincat makes the sens a better overall team. I dont think they are necessarily better players but they are a better fit.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Why do you keep saying implying a year of DBC? He’ll be here for a year. We will have traded for a year of DBC. When we trade him away, we will get something back. That doesn’t change that we traded that package for a year of DBC….

You originally stated that trading for DBC for one season, was short sighted…. Your words.

When PD traded for DBC, he had two full years left on his contract.

You’re assuming that if he is traded, it will be done before the season starts.

PD can wait until the trade deadline, or any point during the season before that… so even if DBC plays a month of the season, it’s more than one season.

look…DBC is in the drivers seat in the sense that he can accept the QO, and wait and see who the new Owner(s) is, and perhaps even a new GM and coach…. so most likely he will be able to get a long term deal, from Ottawa, if that is what he wants, then rather than now, while the team is kinda in limbo.

If he truly wants to play in the USA, as has been speculated, then a trade is going to happen…. And when that happens….. the trade to acquire DBC from Chicago, will have given Ottawa the one season he played, any future games if not traded before the season begins, and whatever assets come in return.

In other words, more than what you claimed, “one season of DBC”

 

[R2010]

For the assets we used we shoulda just got Fiala.

 

[bert]

You originally stated that trading for DBC for one season, was short sighted…. Your words.

When PD traded for DBC, he had two full years left on his contract.

You’re assuming that if he is traded, it will be done before the season starts.

PD can wait until the trade deadline, or any point during the season before that… so even if DBC plays a month of the season, it’s more than one season.

look…DBC is in the drivers seat in the sense that he can accept the QO, and wait and see who the new Owner(s) is, and perhaps even a new GM and coach…. so most likely he will be able to get a long term deal, from Ottawa, if that is what he wants, then rather than now, while the team is kinda in limbo.

If he truly wants to play in the USA, as has been speculated, then a trade is going to happen…. And when that happens….. the trade to acquire DBC from Chicago, will have given Ottawa the one season he played, any future games if not traded before the season begins, and whatever assets come in return.

In other words, more than what you claimed, “one season of DBC”

It was without an extension. You think 1.5 years the second being full of drama as a distraction is a good idea? That wasnt short sighted giving up that type of draft capital. Getting the 7th OA pick means you had an excruciating season as a fan base. Burning it for 1.5 years of a player is the definition of short sighted. Unless you think otherwise. 1, 1.5 or 2 seasons is extremely short sighted. Seems like you dedicated a post to semantics rather than rational thinking.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Tampa literally went out and got a bunch of hard players to fill out the lineup after they got upset by Columbus. The only pure skill player on the team was Kucherov and even he has an edge. Their entire D core except Mcdonough was 6'2 or bigger. And Mcdonough is hard and one of the best defensive D men in hockey. They are absolutely a very hard team, that has a mix of skill into it but not an over abundance. They have guys that play both ways, Palat, Cirelly, Hagel, Killorn, Gourde, Coleman, Goodrow, Paul, . This is what the sens are missing not a pure skill guy. The sens got folded 5 on 5 after the first line because they simply had no depth that was hard to play against and can contribute offensively.

How many skilled right handed shot wingers that have an average motor, arent fast and are are average defensive players do the sens need?.... They already have Batherson and Giroux. Debrincat isnt a good fit. The roster make up is flawed. Those championship teams dont have multiple players like that making big money.... You need a balance, the reason the Eichel Marchessault Barbashev line is effective is because they have different roles. Having a guy that can play hard and with skill players, producing offense is unique and a necessity. Someone needs to go to the net, someone needs to go get the puck someone needs to make the other team think twice about targeting a skill guy. It makes room for them. There needs to be a balance.

Karlsson is having a great playoff because he is a hard player. Players that can skate, play both ways and have size do well in the playoffs its a constant. So maybe you have been watching for a long time but if you cant identify with these types of traits what does that say?

So yes I think switching a Barbashev, or Bertuzzi for Debrincat makes the sens a better overall team. I dont think they are necessarily better players but they are a better fit.

LOL. Brayden Point (best clutch goal scorer of the last half dozen years) is now some kind of grinder. Huh. I didn't know that. Most of the other guys you mention are two way players. I'm all for it. Our dufus GM gave up Paul and Brown who are both two way guys. Our soft ass coach lets Brady and Batherson play with zero defensive effort. It goes on and on.

We need a more balanced game, right through the lineup. Swapping DBC for Barbashev barely moves the needle defensively (with our current coaching staff). That is my point. Barbashev has had one really good playoff year and a year of regular season success. There is no guarantee he repeats that. ESPECIALLY with a different coaching staff.

For the record I don't have a problem with moving Debrincat. I'd be more inclined to try the current lineup with a different coaching staff but I'd be OK with tinkering with the roster. I'm just not sure Barbashev or Bertuzzi are necessarily the answer. Furthermore I don't think we can have any idea what the answer will be until we have a coach who holds EVERY player accountable and makes them play in their own end.

As for forwards that are hard to play against I again look at our coaching staff. Joseph was a serviceable bottom six player on a SC winner. Motte has been effective in the bottom 6 for every team but ours. Kastelic is still learning but is totally fine as a 4th liner. IMO the same goes for Kelly and Watson. Our bottom six was abysmal though. The whole team was 5-on-5. We have guys who are hard to play against but could definitely use more two-way play. But I'm not convinced that it's a player personnel issue.

Like I said, I think we need a coach. At the very least to see what we have in certain players.

 

[bert]

LOL. Brayden Point (best clutch goal scorer of the last half dozen years) is now some kind of grinder. Huh. I didn't know that. Most of the other guys you mention are two way players. I'm all for it. Our dufus GM gave up Paul and Brown who are both two way guys. Our soft ass coach lets Brady and Batherson play with zero defensive effort. It goes on and on.

We need a more balanced game, right through the lineup. Swapping DBC for Barbashev barely moves the needle defensively (with our current coaching staff). That is my point. Barbashev has had one really good playoff year and a year of regular season success. There is no guarantee he repeats that. ESPECIALLY with a different coaching staff.

For the record I don't have a problem with moving Debrincat. I'd be more inclined to try the current lineup with a different coaching staff but I'd be OK with tinkering with the roster. I'm just not sure Barbashev or Bertuzzi are necessarily the answer. Furthermore I don't think we can have any idea what the answer will be until we have a coach who holds EVERY player accountable and makes them play in their own end.

As for forwards that are hard to play against I again look at our coaching staff. Joseph was a serviceable bottom six player on a SC winner. Motte has been effective in the bottom 6 for every team but ours. Kastelic is still learning but is totally fine as a 4th liner. IMO the same goes for Kelly and Watson. Our bottom six was abysmal though. The whole team was 5-on-5. We have guys who are hard to play against but could definitely use more two-way play. But I'm not convinced that it's a player personnel issue.

Like I said, I think we need a coach. At the very least to see what we have in certain players.

Point has a tremendous motor and plays with alot of pace and takes the puck to the net. None of Giroux, Batherson or Debrincat do that like he does. Whether its because they dont have the skillset or the will they dont.

Barbashev is a better fit with the sens roster make up than DBC and makes them a way harder team. To say it barely moves the needle when he has had 3 massive hits and has his linemates playing the best hockey of their life right now because he is hitting everyone that moves is being blissfully ignorant to try and back up your original argument. Its not just Barbashev starts with him and they get more guys like that. They need players that play in the top 6 to play like this not just on the 3rd and 4th line.

Seems to me you are ignoring my points about having physical players make room for skill guys. If you dont think thats true thats fine we differ in opinion but in the playoffs the teams that are getting inside the dots are the ones that are scoring.

Alot of assumptions about the coaching staff that anyone knows you or I. I think they need a new voice at this point and do think that at times Batherson needed to sit. I dont think the idea that someone has that type of exposure to the sport and experience DJ has isnt telling him to play harder. To think any of us that post here know more about the game or do better is pretty self righteous. What's funny is some posters on here actually dont like when Tkachuk always finishes his check on the D man on the point and say 'he is out of position'. Stone literally did that last game and it resulted in a goal.

 

[Qward]

I am disappointed. I dropped a lot of money on a Debrincat jersey.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I am disappointed. I dropped a lot of money on a Debrincat jersey.

I'll do you one better. I'll trade you for my Hasek jersey that was relevant for half a season and is now just a painful memory of what could have been.

 

[Ice-Tray]

So, if DBC is traded, how many seasons was he here?

We’re going to pretend it was a big brain play to dress DBC for a year and then reap the rewards of his trade?

Lol, chill Winston, at least let it play out before jumping both feet in with that crowd.

It was a gamble to sell the room and the team to a first line winger who was available for a few picks. 40 goal 24 year old players don’t come available often.

Its a great play if the gamble works, and we definitely have the roster and the lockerroom to gamble on in my opinion.

If it doesn’t work, then you recoup as many assets as you can and move on. Gambles are what give teams the edge, and that 7th wasn’t doing anything for us for a few years at best, and we’d like to make some noise starting now.

Unfortunately when these trades don’t work some fans think it’s the worst thing ever to have tried in the first place, which is foolish in my opinion. Better to have tried and failed then to never have tried at all type thing, and we have had a good hand to play here with DBC. He who dares wins… SAS and such.

Some people are treating him having two years left on his deal when we traded for him the same as if he was a deadline deal and we needed an immediate extension signed before trading.

That’s not how most trades work, though it’s a nice bonus when it does.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Touch on Golf, DeBrincat, Patrick Roy, a little on Hart, Caufield, Americans playing in a Canadian Market, Vegas Florida
Rishaug, Johnson, Lebrun pod

 

[Ice-Tray]

I can't interpret this is anything less than childish conjecture. PD is GM of a pro sports franchise and as others have said is running a business as well. To suggest, based on the very limited behind the scenes info you have, that it was a kid in a candy store type move is really ignorant imo.

On top of that when have the Senators ever had the luxury of candy store spending? Putting aside the win/loss merits of the trade for a sec, if there is one team that has always had to be conscious of making pure hockey deals, it's us.

Not to mention that PD has told us that he had to go to the board to have the spending room.

This doesn’t entail asking dad for pocket cash, he obviously has to lay out a financial plan for consideration by the board.