AHL Future in Binghamton

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Thank you 22, you should know more about it than most on here.

I cannot understand Hutch's explanation at all. The O Sens have never owned the Binghamton Senators.

ok, then how did Ottawa operate its AHL Franchise 15 years ago, and just now decided to buy it outright, If they didn't have a franchise to place in Binghamton in 2002, there would be no franchise to be transferred to Belleville, and how, in 1992-93, the Ottawa Senators acquired the New Haven Nighthawks franchise and has leased it since then, including to Mitchell 15 years ago...

All I see Mitchell is is the CEO OF THE B-Sens, just as Springfield Hockey bought Portland in May....

that's the point everyone's missing here including Senator fans/insiders

in essence, Ottawa bought Mitchell out, just as Ron Cain bought Brian Petrovek out a few years back.

 

[mmazz22]

Mitchell is part owner of the b sens with a few other local people. OTTAWA DOES NOT OWN THIS TEAM YET IN ANY FORM. Local group bought a dormant Ottawa owned AHL franchise, Ottawa moth balled the franchise while they affiliated with Grand Rapids.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Mitchell is part owner of the b sens with a few other local people. OTTAWA DOES NOT OWN THIS TEAM YET IN ANY FORM. Local group bought a dormant Ottawa owned AHL franchise, Ottawa moth balled the franchise while they affiliated with Grand Rapids.

LOL, you're wasting your breath 22.

 

[mmazz22]

hahaha i was thinking the same thing.

 

[Psuedo Omega]

In fact, an NHL team hasn't owned an AHL team in Binghamton since 1985. The Binghamton Rangers were locally owned, along with the Binghamton Whalers from 1985 to 1990.

 

[210]

In fact, an NHL team hasn't owned an AHL team in Binghamton since 1985. The Binghamton Rangers were locally owned, along with the Binghamton Whalers from 1985 to 1990.

Please stop disrupting this thread with facts. Thanks.

 

[Tao Jersey Jones]

Supposedly it will be announced 1/2/17

Any updates?

 

[ZekeA]

Any updates?

In a word NO......

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Are there any actual sources for this New Jersey/Bingo stuff, beyond hearsay from fans in Binghamton (understandable) or fans of other AHL teams who have it in for Albany (for some reason)?

Albany attendance has almost always been the absolute lowest in the league yet other cities that would provide better support for a team go without one.

Make it 3

4

Thank you 22, you should know more about it than most on here.

I cannot understand Hutch's explanation at all. The O Sens have never owned the Binghamton Senators.

From 2014:
PRINCIPAL OWNERS: Tim Smith and Tom Bolles
MINORITY OWNERS: Ray Stanton III, Tom Mitchell and Bob Carr

http://www.pressconnects.com/story/...08/binghamton-senators-organization/16921779/


And the announcement of September 2016
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-senators-binghamton-belleville-ahl-1.3778890


Bingo was not owned by Ottawa until this September. And there is apparently an agreement that Ottawa wouldn't move the team until they had a replacement to go to Bingo.

http://wskgnews.org/post/senators-out-ahl-likely-staying-binghamton#stream/0

 

[zetajerk]

Albany attendance has almost always been the absolute lowest in the league yet other cities that would provide better support for a team go without one.

Albany's AHL team has been largely terrible for most of this century, that's been brought up to deaf ears ad nauseum.

Also, Binghamton's building seats ~4800 people and they haven't averaged 4000 since 2008. They've been a ~3500 market for the past 10 years. Not exactly a hockey paradise.

Who exactly is going without one that needs one so bad? Portland? Not exactly Toronto either. Utica has a team in their sardine can that shows no interest in leaving. Manchester, ADK, Norfolk, OKC, Worschester have/will have the ECHL. If they don't want to support it and run hockey out of town, that's their call.

Being a fan of Albany is like being a fan of Arizona. People seem to just want you gone.

 

[Nightsquad]

Albany's AHL team has been largely terrible for most of this century, that's been brought up to deaf ears ad nauseum.

Also, Binghamton's building seats ~4800 people and they haven't averaged 4000 since 2008. They've been a ~3500 market for the past 10 years. Not exactly a hockey paradise.

Who exactly is going without one that needs one so bad? Portland? Not exactly Toronto either. Utica has a team in their sardine can that shows no interest in leaving. Manchester, ADK, Norfolk, OKC, Worschester have/will have the ECHL. If they don't want to support it and run hockey out of town, that's their call.

Being a fan of Albany is like being a fan of Arizona. People seem to just want you gone.

Albany's attendance is bad for all the wrong reasons, not because it cannot be a halfway decent minor league market. Here are just examples of what I see wrong with Albany's current situation. The Devils should have kept the Albany River Rats identity alive and well, rolling back into town from Lowell after having decimated the product earlier and alienating fans you then tell them you hate the River Rats name and logo whom the region loved, attendance has hurt ever since. Scheduling 5pm games on every Saturday is a killer, most in the league don't do it and fans want a night out, maybe go out and have dinner before the game. Throw in kids activities such as birthday parties, pop warner, performances, and other early events children do hurts family attendance when games start at % PM every Saturday, makes no sense.

Albany's game night or walk up attendance ticket prices is absurd, almost $30 in a market where you can catch NCAA Hockey or basketball for less then $15.00 and in summer minor league baseball only sets you back $12.00. Albany's games are barely advertised, local news media barely covers the team in favor of high school or college sports, and Albany's games on local Albany radio is barely broadcasted when the team is home or when the Yankees, Giants, Jets, or University of Albany basketball is playing. The positive is Albany has a loyal base of just over 3000 per game every season there is room to grow. Albany's arena is getting a $20 million dollar makeover which will bring out folks who want to experience the upgraded arena.

The organization would be smart to make the changes fans up that way have been so rightfully deprived of.
Hey Zeta if Binghampton wants the Devils I am sure the Ranger faithful from surrounding Albany down through the Hudson Valley would go nuts for Albany Ranger or Albany River Rats (Ranger affiliate) hockey up that way. Heck the Rangers could call up or send down players right from the train in Madison Square Garden directly to Albany. Why the Devils organization prior to the new ownership and front office would bring their then sorry franchise back to Albany and expect anything other then apathy and disdain is beyond me. The local news media and papers up that seem to not really view Albany's AHL team with any relevance, that is said. The news media is influential and a drives people to the perception of something good or bad. Albany's situation appears to be similar to that of Rochester. Some of their games have drawn only a few thousand fans, and more and more Rochester is slipping from local media attention. Buffalo sports, RIT Tigers, and local section V high school athletics more and more are becoming the thing for local media to cover. I would seem to think the new New Jersey Devils ownership and front office would consider the things of the past and give Albany a chance to right what some view as a sunk ship. Again it's the fans up in Albany who have been hosed for years. I don't think Binghamton or any other New York AHL teams wants to gamble with Albany ever becoming a Ranger farm team, and I don't think the Devils might want to leave their cushy lease deal and excellent facilities in Albany just to gain a couple hundred extra fans at best. I believe the Devils could be a good fit for Albany but I do think the Rangers landing in Albany would be a shot of life to AHL hockey in Albany like an automatic external defibrillator! Never mind fans in Binghamton or Utica, Albany under the Rangers would give Rochester or Syracuse a run for their money in terms of attendance, their is a lot of Ranger fans in the Capital Region of Upstate NY.

 

[Ski]

I didn't bother looking back at the bickering concerning ownership except what has already been said with locals being it 100% all the way..

New affiliation announcement has been pushed ahead to the All-Star Weekend, and may be again pushed for the 3rd time to sometime in February.

There will be a lots of movements coming up in the Northeast, but Binghamton is safe for a new NHL affiliate rest assured.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I didn't bother looking back at the bickering concerning ownership except what has already been said with locals being it 100% all the way..

New affiliation announcement has been pushed ahead to the All-Star Weekend, and may be again pushed for the 3rd time to sometime in February.

There will be a lots of movements coming up in the Northeast, but Binghamton is safe for a new NHL affiliate rest assured.

Portland says hello, as does Worcester, ski, what did it get you, franchise sale, and or relocation, and Portland is like Binghamton, one day it'll be gone.

 

[go comets]

An article about possible franchise moves


http://www.howlings.net/2017/01/06/...ve-ahl-changes-for-2017-2018-about-to-unfold/

 

[Ski]

Portland says hello, as does Worcester, ski, what did it get you, franchise sale, and or relocation, and Portland is like Binghamton, one day it'll be gone.

Highly unlikely as Binghamton is geographically the best in the Northeast in keeping travel expenses to a minimum. You practically can draw a circle surrounding the other cities that have AHL hockey with Bingo near the center.

 

[210]

An article about possible franchise moves


http://www.howlings.net/2017/01/06/...ve-ahl-changes-for-2017-2018-about-to-unfold/

"Railcats". How long would it have taken him to fact check that name?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Albany's AHL team has been largely terrible for most of this century, that's been brought up to deaf ears ad nauseum.

Also, Binghamton's building seats ~4800 people and they haven't averaged 4000 since 2008. They've been a ~3500 market for the past 10 years. Not exactly a hockey paradise.

Who exactly is going without one that needs one so bad? Portland? Not exactly Toronto either. Utica has a team in their sardine can that shows no interest in leaving. Manchester, ADK, Norfolk, OKC, Worschester have/will have the ECHL. If they don't want to support it and run hockey out of town, that's their call.

Being a fan of Albany is like being a fan of Arizona. People seem to just want you gone.

All those cities you mentioned supported their AHL team better than Albany does so they are all more deserving of an AHL team than Albany, which is what we were talking about, not the ECHL.

"Railcats". How long would it have taken him to fact check that name?

30 seconds depending on internet connection speed?

 

[zetajerk]

All those cities you mentioned supported their AHL team better than Albany does so they are all more deserving of an AHL team than Albany, which is what we were talking about, not the ECHL.

OK

I invoke hockeydb and find

Albany Devils have averaged 3409 over their existence since 2010
Bingo 3718 over the same stretch (including Calder Cup winning season )
Portland 3794 (average dropped after they stopped reporting papered numbers)
Worchester 4129 (impressive given poor product and distant affiliate)

So a few hundred extra people in Bingo and Portland vs Albany. Amazing. Given Portland admittance of papered numbers, it's not outlandish to expect that other teams do the same, so arguing attendance numbers is pointless anyways and says absolutely nothing about who is worthy of hosting the AHL. I wish hockey fans would stop the circular argument of who deserves to have a team at any given level. Crap happens, attendance rises and falls, no need to tear down other cities and the fans therein.

 

[royals119]

An article about possible franchise moves


http://www.howlings.net/2017/01/06/...ve-ahl-changes-for-2017-2018-about-to-unfold/

"Railcats". How long would it have taken him to fact check that name?

Exactly, when you make that kind of mistake on something that is public knowledge, it makes it tough to accept his "reporting from sources" as realistic. He's just repeating the same speculation and rumors without anything to back it up.

Also this:

as the league seeks to get up to 30 teams to marry the NHL and AHL for a 30-30-30 arrangement the sport has sought.

Obviously, as he just stated earlier in the article, the NHL and AHL are moving to 31 teams next season, so the sport is now seeking a 31-31-31 arrangement for the short term, and the NHL is most certainly looking to get to 32 to balance the conferences at some point.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

OK

I invoke hockeydb and find

Albany Devils have averaged 3409 over their existence since 2010
Bingo 3718 over the same stretch (including Calder Cup winning season )
Portland 3794 (average dropped after they stopped reporting papered numbers)
Worchester 4129 (impressive given poor product and distant affiliate)

So a few hundred extra people in Bingo and Portland vs Albany. Amazing. Given Portland admittance of papered numbers, it's not outlandish to expect that other teams do the same, so arguing attendance numbers is pointless anyways and says absolutely nothing about who is worthy of hosting the AHL. I wish hockey fans would stop the circular argument of who deserves to have a team at any given level. Crap happens, attendance rises and falls, no need to tear down other cities and the fans therein.

So, given Bingo seats significantly less than Albany and the fact that everyone over reports their numbers, those teams still drew 10 to 20% higher than Albany did.

So, based on support, which is what was said, those cities supported their team better than Albany. Sorry to let the facts get in the way.

Crap does happen except when it does happen in Albany, no oe shows up. And no one is tearing down the fans, just the lack of fan support.

 

[zetajerk]

So, given Bingo seats significantly less than Albany and the fact that everyone over reports their numbers, those teams still drew 10 to 20% higher than Albany did.

So, based on support, which is what was said, those cities supported their team better than Albany. Sorry to let the facts get in the way.

Crap does happen except when it does happen in Albany, no oe shows up. And no one is tearing down the fans, just the lack of fan support.

And Binghamton won a Calder Cup and couldn't fill their 4800 seat building that season or the following season

I don't get the hand-wringing about a difference of ~200 people in a building on average. 3400 people is "no one" but 3700 isn't?

If Springfield (another minor league market that got burned by crappy circumstances) gets to stay in the AHL, then why should Albany get kicked out?

Thing about these kind of discussions, they help nothing and no one and go nowhere.

 

[mmazz22]

Let's be clear on the Bingo atty Calder cup year and after.
Calder cup season they were in fifth place so not exactly a stellar regular season. This also following five straight non playoffs years. During the run the team sold out regularly. The season after the cup the team was 30 out 30 teams in points. No secret why they drew **** that year.
But we have said the team did a poor job marketing the team after cup.

 

[zetajerk]

Let's be clear on the Bingo atty Calder cup year and after.
Calder cup season they were in fifth place so not exactly a stellar regular season. This also following five straight non playoffs years. During the run the team sold out regularly. The season after the cup the team was 30 out 30 teams in points. No secret why they drew **** that year.
But we have said the team did a poor job marketing the team after cup.

I'm not slagging Bingo, just pushing against the Albany slagging which is becoming absurd, with the arbitrary metrics being thrown about. I don't care who sells out or gets more media coverage or what, not relevant. "Deserving" has got nothing to do with it at the NHL, AHL, any level.

Albany's team has had poor marketing to put it lightly, missed the playoffs regularly as well.

I was at the Utica/Albany game last month wearing my Devils jersey and several of the fans in the building (5 occurrences in total) felt the need to stop me or stop by my seat to tell me how crappy my building is and now there's nobody in it, for what purpose?

 

[go comets]

I'm not slagging Bingo, just pushing against the Albany slagging which is becoming absurd, with the arbitrary metrics being thrown about. I don't care who sells out or gets more media coverage or what, not relevant. "Deserving" has got nothing to do with it at the NHL, AHL, any level.

Albany's team has had poor marketing to put it lightly, missed the playoffs regularly as well.

I was at the Utica/Albany game last month wearing my Devils jersey and several of the fans in the building (5 occurrences in total) felt the need to stop me or stop by my seat to tell me how crappy my building is and now there's nobody in it, for what purpose?

I seriously doubt anyone would complain about the building Albany plays in. It's a great venue, just built in too small of a city. Saw the first comets game in Albany this season.

 

[Nightsquad]

The Devils organization if they should decide to unload their AHL franchise to a group from Binghamton to save money for rebuild purposes its not a really huge loss for Albany as I see it. Yea it would be a shame but for the just over 3000 loyal AHL faithful it would be but its not a huge loss for Albany. The team barely advertises in Albany, they barely get media coverage, the team only broadcasts half their games on the radio (most are only away games and if the Giants or Yankees are playing ESPN radio doesn't broadcast the A-Devils), the organization refuses to relent on the 5 PM start for every Saturday night home game (they say for practice and development purposes), and walkup fans can expect to pay $27 for a ticket on game night which is absurd for minor league sports.

Previous poster argued Adirondack, Manchester, Portland, Binghamton would be better but that's not an argument which holds much merit. Albany has better facilities and is much better centrally located. Not only does it sit at the east west crossroads of the northeast also has pretty good domestic airport. In Albany if you advertise, treat the fans well, field a competitive team, and provide a product that particular market perceives as a good value then Albany tends to rally behind. Valleycats baseball, Siena Basketball, Union Hockey, UAlbany basketball, Firebirds of the arena football league, old River Rats, and Adirondack Red Wings (Adirondack is Albany's AHL territory) all did reasonably well and were well regarded by media and fans. Its those intangibles that make Albany no worse then the above towns. Manchester and Adirondack to date are ECHL disasters. Fans in Manchester have gotten over minor league hockey and appear to have gravitated to college hockey as its a very good value in terms of product quality and cost to attend. Half the AHL clubs nowadays go through the motions for development purpose. No longer do you see moves made (trades or free agent signings) to win games at the AHL level, it is just not the standard anymore and Albany fans know it after watching the Devils fail to playoff qualify for a decade and a half.

I think Albany is in an okay position no matter what the outcome is. If the Devils stay put they really need to make adjustments. The first thing they did this off season was hike walkup prices in Albany to almost $30. They really need to reach out and advertise in that region but then again the media in that market is all about basketball or Union Hockey. The ECHL in Glens Falls doesn't get any help from Albany's media either, basically none yet Albany and Glens Falls appear to have a nice little quasi affiliation going. Albany next fall will have a 20 million dollar makeover of the arena and I think among hockey fans the NY Rangers would find Albany appealing and it looks as though the Capital Region of NY probably has the largest Ranger fans base north Westchester & Rockland counties. While everyone is leaving New York in large numbers the greater Albany area is actually gaining with heavy losses of population coming from Central Upstate NY, Western Upstate NY, and the South Tiers of Upstate NY. In closing, other then a group from Binghamton willing to relieve the NJ Devils of the costs of owning and piece meal operating their AHL team like they have done in Albany could very well be a blessing in disguise. It would be nice to see the Devils organization stay and maybe rename the club the River Rats, adjust prices, listen to what the fans want, and see them remain for many years to come as Albany has produced a lot of NHL talent over its 20 something years. Should the Devils franchise relocate I don't give it but a season or two at the most that the arena would go dark from hockey. Minor league hockey doesn't have the economic impact some would try to suggest, its more about civic pride and an entertainment option. Albany has way more entertainment options then probably Binghamton, Utica, Manchester, Portland Maine combined and next year will have a renovated arena, attached convention center, and attached Mariott hotel in a location which will make attractive for another team. In the new AHL/ECHL its all about movement, their is no market loyalty anymore.