AHL Future in Binghamton

[tenpinsplit]

Wilkes Barre to Binghamton

 

[ek93]

Wilkes Barre to Binghamton

What..?

 

[go comets]

What is your source for the Wichita Thunder moving to Albany?

It's just a rumor that has popped up. But I doubt there is a owner or ownership group in Albany to by a team. And after thinking about it. Whom would want to put a team in Albany who struggles to draw fans now?

 

[Ski]

Guess y'all have to wait to see..

Lol on Wilkes-Barre/Scranton theory..

 

[Nightsquad]

It's just a rumor that has popped up. But I doubt there is a owner or ownership group in Albany to by a team. And after thinking about it. Whom would want to put a team in Albany who struggles to draw fans now?

Well the Southern Tier of Upstate NY is dying a slow death sadly. Utica is doing better, situated near Syracuse and gateway to Northern NY. Albany has population to support hockey and thanks to Saratoga county is growing. They had almost 6000 at the RPI vs Union game last night so not bad for a Thursday. Had the game been on a weekend they might have had 8000 or more. The Devils have just rubbed that area the wrong way sadly and nobody seems to want to go. If Albany lost the Devils it might be in the next teams best interest to go dark, make the fans who care about minor league hockey hungry. Maybe the market is not big enough. You have RPI which seats over 4000 then you have a strong program in Union which seats 2500, and Union is a top ten team in the nation and getting all the media attention. AHL hockey in Albany gets scraps for coverage, Siena Basketabll, UAlbany Basketball, high school sports, and finally what's left after Yankees baseball or Giants football might be given to the AHL team in Albany. Hockey isn't doing much better in Binghamton, and ECHL is dying in Elmira. The only ones benefiting in these moves are the NHL teams.....Not the minor league fans!

 

[go comets]

Well the Southern Tier of Upstate NY is dying a slow death sadly. Utica is doing better, situated near Syracuse and gateway to Northern NY. Albany has population to support hockey and thanks to Saratoga county is growing. They had almost 6000 at the RPI vs Union game last night so not bad for a Thursday. Had the game been on a weekend they might have had 8000 or more. The Devils have just rubbed that area the wrong way sadly and nobody seems to want to go. If Albany lost the Devils it might be in the next teams best interest to go dark, make the fans who care about minor league hockey hungry. Maybe the market is not big enough. You have RPI which seats over 4000 then you have a strong program in Union which seats 2500, and Union is a top ten team in the nation and getting all the media attention. AHL hockey in Albany gets scraps for coverage, Siena Basketabll, UAlbany Basketball, high school sports, and finally what's left after Yankees baseball or Giants football might be given to the AHL team in Albany. Hockey isn't doing much better in Binghamton, and ECHL is dying in Elmira. The only ones benefiting in these moves are the NHL teams.....Not the minor league fans!

Do either RPI or Union play any games at Times Union? Seems like those two schools would pack the place.....

 

[ADK34]

Do either RPI or Union play any games at Times Union? Seems like those two schools would pack the place.....

They play at their own seperate rinks

 

[Nightsquad]

Do either RPI or Union play any games at Times Union? Seems like those two schools would pack the place.....

The game last night was played in Albany's arena. When they play each other there on weekends annually they usually get 7000 to 10000. RPI hasnt been very good but guess they always play Union hard. Union having won a national championship couple years ago, and now a top ten team in nation has stolen the hockey spotlight up in Albany. The AHL doesnt barely get any media coverage, and likewise Albany media doesnt even cover ECHL in Glens Falls. If Albany loses the franchise I dont know if the ECHL should go in right away, the new teams needs to assess what the leadership has done wrong. $28 for walkup tickets, no broadcast coverage to promote the team and ad revenue, every game on Saturday at 5pm, forcing the Devils identity down a longtime River Rats identity. A strong team is good for hockey purists but at end of day its a night out for entertainment. If you dont make it easy to attend games, affordable,.or connect locally you wont magically sell tickets.

 

[mmazz22]

Minor league hockey is a mess around these parts. The AHL is a shell of it self. We cry in bing if we lose the ahl our lives will be over. But when you really think about the ahl is so not what it used to be would it really matter? I don't know for sure what is going to happen here. The Devils come maybe, no one comes maybe, echl comes maybe. What I do know if the AHL is gone after this year you gotta keep this place dark for a year. Don't rush in like the last time and get a lower league in here asap. It ll be a disaster.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Binghamton has some of the worst attendance in the AHL.

Albany is the worst as far as I know.

 

[mmazz22]

Where are you from u Turris?
Binghamton building seats 4600
It's never going to be top 10 in league
The fact even drawing this in a lame duck year is amazing
Also considering the team was in last place for most of the year and last place the last two seasons.
Don't judge until you know another areas history

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Albany doesn't even sit close to 14,000 for hockey, that's just not accurate. The arena itself seats around 14,000 between the upper sections, lower section, and luxury seats combined. However Albany being a smaller market with what most realize now is an overbuilt arena (thanks to liberal tax payers up that way) negotiates with the team a lease based on seating for about 6500 because the county of Albany installed a curtain system used for most events held at the arena, not just hockey. The curtain system closes up the upper bowl leaving the bottom half with a seating capacity of 6,500. If Albany last several years averages just over 3,000 fans that leaves some room for improvement should the Devils extend an olive branch and rebuild the River Rats brand and honor its legacy, or should the NY Rangers end up settling in Albany. Most minor league hockey teams don't average 6500 fans anyway so a seating capacity of 6500 in a smaller city like Albany is ideal. Don't think for one second the Devils pay a lease that's equivalent to a 14,000 seat arena, that just doesn't happen. Albany's arena is a huge draw for concerts more so then most upstate cities. Albany attracts more concerts then larger cities such as Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, and larger nearby cities such as Springfield, Providence, Hartford, and Worcester. Albany's arena is a money maker, it's one of those more profitable arenas in the region and that is a fact. No longer do county taxpayers subsidize that building, thanks to a steady schedule of good concerts that building is not in the negative. Minor league hockey hasn't been a huge draw but the building itself makes a nice profit for the county. To suggest Albany can draw 14,000 on a weekend to make up for 2,000 on a midweek night while certainly ambitious and a perfect world scenario it just won't happen anywhere in minor league hockey. The big draws out west and even Hershey doesn't pull in close to 14,000 lol. If the major cities of the AHL don't draw over 10,000 on a regular basis there is no way smaller city like Albany if going pull in 14,000. Even in the good old days of the Adirondack Red Wings and Albany River Rats attendance on a Saturday night occasionally brought in around 10,000 or more fans but that was before the rise of UAlbany basketball going DI and the rise of Union College as a DI product let alone a program capable of being an ECACHL powerhouse and a National Championship. If Albany can get itself to where they draw maybe 4000 to 5000 average that's a reasonable expectation.

The game last night was played in Albany's arena. When they play each other there on weekends annually they usually get 7000 to 10000. RPI hasnt been very good but guess they always play Union hard. Union having won a national championship couple years ago, and now a top ten team in nation has stolen the hockey spotlight up in Albany. The AHL doesnt barely get any media coverage, and likewise Albany media doesnt even cover ECHL in Glens Falls. If Albany loses the franchise I dont know if the ECHL should go in right away, the new teams needs to assess what the leadership has done wrong. $28 for walkup tickets, no broadcast coverage to promote the team and ad revenue, every game on Saturday at 5pm, forcing the Devils identity down a longtime River Rats identity. A strong team is good for hockey purists but at end of day its a night out for entertainment. If you dont make it easy to attend games, affordable,.or connect locally you wont magically sell tickets.

I love when you contradict yourself. Albany doesn't seat anywhere close to 14,000 they negotiate for 6500 seating for hockey yet you say they draw 7-10k for these college games. Which is it? Does the arena seat 14,000 or 6,500?

Binghamton has some of the worst attendance in the AHL.

Albany is the worst as far as I know.

Albany has always been near the bottom if not at the bottom and usually with Springfield.

 

[Nightsquad]

I love when you contradict yourself. Albany doesn't seat anywhere close to 14,000 they negotiate for 6500 seating for hockey yet you say they draw 7-10k for these college games. Which is it? Does the arena seat 14,000 or 6,500?




Albany has always been near the bottom if not at the bottom and usually with Springfield.

[MOD] Albany's AHL lease is based on 6500 seats, they dont open the upper tier for AHL hockey. Second, the NCAA games have nothing to do with the AHL Devils. Third, through much of the 1990s Albany's AHL attendance was average and even better in 1995-1996 was 6101 per game. Albany's attendance has NOT always been near the bottom, Ignorance runs deep lol.

 

[go comets]

[MOD] Albany's AHL lease is based on 6500 seats, they dont open the upper tier for AHL hockey. Second, the NCAA games have nothing to do with the AHL Devils. Third, through much of the 1990s Albany's AHL attendance was average and even better in 1995-1996 was 6101 per game. Albany's attendance has NOT always been near the bottom, Ignorance runs deep lol.

I went to a comets game in Albany back in Oct. They did have the curtain open at center ice on one side and at the end the Devils shoot at twice. There were fans sitting in both areas.

 

[Nightsquad]

I went to a comets game in Albany back in Oct. They did have the curtain open at center ice on one side and at the end the Devils shoot at twice. There were fans sitting in both areas.

I am certain they let people sit there without hassle. But I am quite certain (relatives neighbors employed at arena up in Albany) the AHL club's lease is based on lower level capacity of building and not because the building is too big for the area. Its also know the Rangers wanted to be in Albany but the Devils previously resisted efforts to voluntarily relocate and mutually separate from their lease, thats why they farted around with one year lease extensions in Hartford not once but twice. That was Albany's good opportunity, hence the apathetic and could care less Albany fan base.

 

[go comets]

Rangers will be much sought after. I know Utica has spoken with them.

 

[HWP1997]

Rangers will be much sought after. I know Utica has spoken with them.

The Wolf Pack will definitely being playing in Hartford through the 17-18 season. Where they end up after that is anyone's guess at this point. They could very well end up in Utica assuming Vancouver moves their squad to the west coast.

 

[RowdyFan42]

I went to a comets game in Albany back in Oct. They did have the curtain open at center ice on one side and at the end the Devils shoot at twice. There were fans sitting in both areas.

The center ice section functions as the press box. I can't speak definitely as to why the end section was open, as the attendance for that game certainly didn't warrant it, but if they had a group performing the national anthem, they usually put them up there instead of having them come out onto the ice.

A sellout of the lower bowl (I've seen it reported as both 6500 and 7000) is considered a full sellout as far as the league is concerned. The upper bowl does get opened on the rare occasion that attendance requires it.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

[MOD] Albany's AHL lease is based on 6500 seats, they dont open the upper tier for AHL hockey. Second, the NCAA games have nothing to do with the AHL Devils. Third, through much of the 1990s Albany's AHL attendance was average and even better in 1995-1996 was 6101 per game. Albany's attendance has NOT always been near the bottom, Ignorance runs deep lol.

Just because they negotiated the lease for 6500 doesn't mean the arena doesn't seat 14,000 which is what I said and you said it didn't.

And the AHL attendance in the modern era really starts with the 01-02 season when there became only one AAA hockey league.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Albany may be the only place I've ever been to where the guy at the ticket window actually told me to buy cheap seats and move down later.

 

[Nightsquad]

Just because they negotiated the lease for 6500 doesn't mean the arena doesn't seat 14,000 which is what I said and you said it didn't.

And the AHL attendance in the modern era really starts with the 01-02 season when there became only one AAA hockey league.

Really, you decide what the modern era is lol. Actually 01-02 is a decade and half ago but glad you have the power to declare it the modern era lol. You said Albany has always been at or near the bottom. Always means always lol, again no merit just because your opinion differs. The 6500 is a relevant number because the average attendance in the AHL has yet to breach the 6500 mark. The top tiers teams do yes, but nowadays in your modern era the Rochester Americans or even Syracuse rarely draw more then 6000 fans nowadays. We appreciate your opinions though, but they don't show all the dynamics and lack factual merit.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Really, you decide what the modern era is lol. Actually 01-02 is a decade and half ago but glad you have the power to declare it the modern era lol. You said Albany has always been at or near the bottom. Always means always lol, again no merit just because your opinion differs. The 6500 is a relevant number because the average attendance in the AHL has yet to breach the 6500 mark. The top tiers teams do yes, but nowadays in your modern era the Rochester Americans or even Syracuse rarely draw more then 6000 fans nowadays. We appreciate your opinions though, but they don't show all the dynamics and lack factual merit.

You really need to learn about the AHL. 01-02 is the beginning of the modern era of the AHL as that is when they absorbed the old IHL eliminating the AAA competition, as I mentioned in my other post. Also it is the beginning of the era where the league started reducing the number of veterans that a team could field on the ice.

01-02 is also when the attendance starting declining.

Albany seats 14,000 for hockey and the River Rats/Devils have a facility to average more than 3500 a game by drawing big on the weekends. Binghampton and Utica and some other arenas do not. So when you compare the Albany attendance, compare it to like stadiums such as Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Hershey, Manitoba, Chicago, etc.

And yes many teams do not draw 6,000 per game but even fewer draw less than 4,000 a game, of which one of those has been albany for the last 17 years.

Only ONCE has albany averaged more than 6,00 in a season (95-96) TWICE over 5,000 and THREE over 4,000. All the rest were under 4,000 and when they were the Capital District Islanders they drew under 3,000.

So, six seasons of attendance over 4,000 people in 27 years. That is GREAT attendance and support for the team.

So, Based upon attendance over the years, Binghampton does deserve a team more than Albany.

 

[RowdyFan42]

01-02 is also when the attendance starting declining.

Funny you should mention 2001-02. That's when the bottom dropped out of the Devils' organization. The team had been in decline for a couple of years, but 01-02 was the season when they only won 14 games. The Rats would continue to be one of the worst teams in the league for the duration of the Devils' affiliation, only once coming close to winning 30 games and finishing in last place overall or close to it most years. The switch to Carolina brought the level of play from putrid to mediocre, and by then the damage had been done.

You seem to believe that less than 4,000 is bad by today's AHL standards, and maybe it is. However, I challenge you to find a city that would even still have the AHL after enduring the crap Albany fans had to put up with for the better part of a decade.

 

[Nightsquad]

You really need to learn about the AHL. 01-02 is the beginning of the modern era of the AHL as that is when they absorbed the old IHL eliminating the AAA competition, as I mentioned in my other post. Also it is the beginning of the era where the league started reducing the number of veterans that a team could field on the ice.

01-02 is also when the attendance starting declining.

Albany seats 14,000 for hockey and the River Rats/Devils have a facility to average more than 3500 a game by drawing big on the weekends. Binghampton and Utica and some other arenas do not. So when you compare the Albany attendance, compare it to like stadiums such as Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Hershey, Manitoba, Chicago, etc.

And yes many teams do not draw 6,000 per game but even fewer draw less than 4,000 a game, of which one of those has been albany for the last 17 years.

Only ONCE has albany averaged more than 6,00 in a season (95-96) TWICE over 5,000 and THREE over 4,000. All the rest were under 4,000 and when they were the Capital District Islanders they drew under 3,000.

So, six seasons of attendance over 4,000 people in 27 years. That is GREAT attendance and support for the team.

So, Based upon attendance over the years, Binghampton does deserve a team more than Albany.

I don't have to learn about 01-02, I lived it and it is irrelevant, has nothing to do with Albany. The IHL, Chicago, Milwaukee, Manitoba, Grand Rapids, all have nothing to do with Albany or its attendance. Albany housed an IHL team and that was an epic disaster, named after a local super market chain. Albany's attendance declined due to the Devils organization and their lack of desire to win at the AHL level. The only reason why there was a change the past two seasons was because of the new ownership and team management. Its up to them to rebuild the mutual respect between the organization and the market, if they do not Albany doesn't care. Albany will end up as a Rangers affiliate eventually, an ECHL franchise, or quite possibly a USHL Junior team should they begin eastern expansion. Albany's fan support has bottomed out, but it wont get worse. I dare even Hershey to endure what fans in Albany have endured. Utica, Binghamton, Syracuse, and Rochester all would have revolted if their AHL teams failed to playoff qualify even just half (Albany almost a decade and half out of playoffs) of what fans in Albany had to sit through. Lets strip Utica of the Comets name, Syracuse of the Crunch, and Rochester of the Amerks so we can paint the town Devils red. Now lets provide them with hopeless playoffless hockey for over ten years straight.....Would support in these towns dwindle, I bet it would but thankfully the folks there wont have to test those waters!! I hate to say this, I hope the Devils go to Binghamton. Lets see Albany go dark for a season, then maybe with some luck (Rangers, Albany County, and State Politicians have already met on this) the NY Rangers bring their AHL club to Albany. Binghamton, Utica, and Springfield would be non topics....

 

[ek93]

So Albany gets a pass in regards to attendance when their team sucks, but if the B-Sens don't draw because the team is in the cellar, the city isn't capable of housing an AHL squad? The Sens have missed the playoffs 8 of the last 11 seasons. Two of the seasons they did make it, they were one-and-done. They aren't exactly setting the world on fire this season, either.