News Article: Agents Poll: Dubas voted the best GM to get client a good deal from

[Wafflewhipper]

He has done well for sure ... but remember da old saying because it is still relevant "it is hard to find a needle in a haystack" and "much easier to find an ice cube in your freezer".

If life is smellin all roses ya better watch out for the pricks too is a good one lol

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It seems Dubas prefers to pay for what a younger player is likely to do more than what an older player had already done.

I think I might prefer that too.

It was never an option to let Auston Matthews hit the open market either.

Matty is different as are all young world class centres.
But Mitch and Willy would traditionally have got a Point type of bridge deal which would have given us more CAP flexibility to go for a Cup in next 3 years.
Dubie bucked da old boy traditional hockey moves. So lets see if he was right or wrong. He is certainly innovative.

 

[biotk]

He has done well for sure ... but remember da old saying because it is still relevant "it is hard to find a needle in a haystack" and "much easier to find an ice cube in your freezer".

Sure. But if what you claim to be good at is finding inefficiencies then 2021 should work better. For starters teams would be more willing to give up better draft picks for 2021 than 2020. Also teams have been spending more resources for 2020 than usual because it supposed to be a strong draft. Many of those teams will be cutting back on scouting this coming season, leagues are in disarray, and it should be easier to find hidden gems.

I remember back when the draft of 1996 was crap and 1997 was a goldmine. Yes, 1997 had Thornton, Marleau, Hossa etc. But after the 1st round...perhaps even after the first 12 picks, the crap 1996 draft was better than the great 1997 one. In fact players drafted in 1996 played more NHL games than those drafted in 1997, and after the first round the 1996 was one of the better drafts.

There are always good players out there. The idea that the first 3 rounds of one year is going to be much worse than another is pretty dubious unimaginative group think. It is the job of scouts, GMs and organizations to understand what talent is being overlooked.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Sure. But if what you claim to be good at is finding inefficiencies then 2021 should work better. For starters teams would be more willing to give up better draft picks for 2021 than 2020. Also teams have been spending more resources for 2020 than usual because it supposed to be a strong draft. Many of those teams will be cutting back on scouting this coming season, leagues are in disarray, and it should be easier to find hidden gems.

I remember back when the draft of 1996 was crap and 1997 was a goldmine. Yes, 1997 had Thornton, Marleau, Hossa etc. But after the 1st round...perhaps even after the first 12 picks, the crap 1996 draft was better than the great 1997 one. In fact players drafted in 1996 played more NHL games than those drafted in 1997, and after the first round the 1996 was one of the better drafts.

There are always good players out there. The idea that the first 3 rounds of one year is going to be much worse than another is pretty dubious unimaginative group think. It is the job of scouts, GMs and organizations to understand what talent is being overlooked.

Some guys always like to push da cart uphill ... others like me prefer flat/downhill ... you usually get to where you are going faster. But maybe Dubie is one of those guys who likes to do it da hard way. Giving up our 2020 1st rounder for marleau was very very tough. It would have been easier to fire Babs before camp, do bridge deals with Willy/Mitch and tell Marleau in camp he was not playing opening night. He would have quit and requested a trade. After seeing nobody wanted him then he could have gone on LTIR for season with his 3rd shift back issues.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Sure. But if what you claim to be good at is finding inefficiencies then 2021 should work better. For starters teams would be more willing to give up better draft picks for 2021 than 2020. Also teams have been spending more resources for 2020 than usual because it supposed to be a strong draft. Many of those teams will be cutting back on scouting this coming season, leagues are in disarray, and it should be easier to find hidden gems.

I remember back when the draft of 1996 was crap and 1997 was a goldmine. Yes, 1997 had Thornton, Marleau, Hossa etc. But after the 1st round...perhaps even after the first 12 picks, the crap 1996 draft was better than the great 1997 one. In fact players drafted in 1996 played more NHL games than those drafted in 1997, and after the first round the 1996 was one of the better drafts.

There are always good players out there. The idea that the first 3 rounds of one year is going to be much worse than another is pretty dubious unimaginative group think. It is the job of scouts, GMs and organizations to understand what talent is being overlooked.

Chara went #56 in 1996 ha

 

[hotpaws]

It seems Dubas prefers to pay for what a younger player is likely to do more than what an older player had already done.

I think I might prefer that too.

It was never an option to let Auston Matthews hit the open market either.

it seems Dubas over pays everyone , young and old - Tavares/Muzzin

and rfa's can't ''hit the open market''

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Here is what I find strange, Dubas was voted the best GM to get a good deal from but not th3 one agents like dealing with the most.

Those 2 things would appear to go together

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

it seems over pays everyone , young and old - Tavares/Muzzin

and rfa's can't ''hit the open market''

i thought you obtained a bargain contract by paying a young player who's clearly capable of doing more for what they've done so that when they do more they're exceeding their paycheck.

So Dubas would have paid Pastrnak and Mackinnon $12M because he "pays a young player for what they're likely going to do"? hows this supposed to benefit the team in any way?

 

[Martin Skoula]

i thought you obtained a bargain contract by paying a young player who's clearly capable of doing more for what they've done so that when they do more they're exceeding their paycheck.

So Dubas would have paid Pastrnak and Mackinnon $12M because he "pays a young player for what they're likely going to do"? hows this supposed to benefit the team in any way?

For every MacK/Pastrnak there's an RNH/Eberle. In what way was it "likely" that MacKinnon was going to explode and literally almost double his production overnight? In what way was it "likely" that Pastrnak was going to go from a 35/35 season to a 50/50 season? It sucks that our players had their breakthrough seasons before their ELCs were up, I get it, if only they were worse players and took longer to develop.

This is about as disingenuous as saying the other side of the coin is paying Towes/Kopitar 10.5 mil to be a mediocre top-6 C.

 

[hotpaws]

i thought you obtained a bargain contract by paying a young player who's clearly capable of doing more for what they've done so that when they do more they're exceeding their paycheck.

So Dubas would have paid Pastrnak and Mackinnon $12M because he "pays a young player for what they're likely going to do"? hows this supposed to benefit the team in any way?

yup your right but the goal here isn't what's beneficial for the team but to invent fairy tales to make Dubas look like a competent GM

on the Leafs board we have fans who cheer for the team and then we have fans of the GM who could care less how the team performs under his watch

 

[biotk]

Some guys always like to push da cart uphill ... others like me prefer flat/downhill ... you usually get to where you are going faster. But maybe Dubie is one of those guys who likes to do it da hard way. Giving up our 2020 1st rounder for marleau was very very tough. It would have been easier to fire Babs before camp, do bridge deals with Willy/Mitch and tell Marleau in camp he was not playing opening night. He would have quit and requested a trade. After seeing nobody wanted him then he could have gone on LTIR for season with his 3rd shift back issues.

It is amazing that Leafs' have not replaced Dubas with you.

 

[Mess]

Q: To get a great deal for your client, what GM would you most want to deal with?

A: Dubas 29% vs. Any other GM 6% max

Dubas wins this poll by a factor of ~ 5 X more then the next NHL GM, taking this in a runaway landslide.

I bet I can guess some of the player agents that voted for Dubas ... Judd Moldaver, Darren Ferris, Pat Brisson, Lewis Gross.

Reason: All you have to know is 2 things here ..

In the Sports Agent business, the saying goes "you get paid when your athlete gets paid." The amount agents make varies with the athletes they sign. Successful sports agents can make over a million dollars per year.

1) Player agents are paid on annual per commission basis ( @ 4.5% rate) and so the better deal they get for their client the more they line their own pockets financially.
2) So find the highest/richest NHL contracts and you will see 3 Leafs in the top 7 overall and when you're getting a 4.5 % of $11 mil as you cut your laughing all the way to the bank.

So : $11,000,000 X 4.5% commission = $495,000 / year. So every time Dubas hands out an $11 mil AAV deal the agent gets nearly 1/2 a million for his troubles annually.

Commission rate source: Sports Agent Salaries | Sports Management Worldwide

 

[kb]

For every MacK/Pastrnak there's an RNH/Eberle. In what way was it "likely" that MacKinnon was going to explode and literally almost double his production overnight? In what way was it "likely" that Pastrnak was going to go from a 35/35 season to a 50/50 season? It sucks that our players had their breakthrough seasons before their ELCs were up, I get it, if only they were worse players and took longer to develop.

This is about as disingenuous as saying the other side of the coin is paying Towes/Kopitar 10.5 mil to be a mediocre top-6 C.

Exactly. Mackinnon had 38 and 52 points coming off his ELC, and got a bigger slice of the pie than someone who had consecutive 61 point seasons.

Didn't think we had to break it down to bite size chunks like that to enlighten...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It is amazing that Leafs' have not replaced Dubas with you.

Not interested ... I prefer to go to games enjoy da teams and cheer on next Cup run

 

[Martin Skoula]

Exactly. Mackinnon had 38 and 52 points coming off his ELC, and got a bigger slice of the pie than someone who had consecutive 61 point seasons.

Didn't think we had to break it down to bite size chunks like that to enlighten...

If Matthews and Marner stopped improving today, they'd still be relatively fair value for the money - you wouldn't be able to get a 50 goal or a 94 point FA for less than what they're making. If MacK stopped developing when he signed his contract, he wouldn't be good value for the money considering that 6.3 gets you a 60 point UFA pretty easily in 2016.

 

[The CyNick]

My favorite thing ever posted on this site.

Swig of beer.

 

[ACC1224]

Not interested ... I prefer to go to games enjoy da teams and cheer on next Cup run

Lol no kidding. Those guys work way too hard.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Lol no kidding. Those guys work way too hard.

I always aspired to be a NHL GM when I was younger. Yeah, no thanks. I get worked up over all the draft, signings, trades from a distance, and get super stressed out watching the games from home. I'd have died from a heart attack at Dubas's age.

 

[biotk]

Lol no kidding. Those guys work way too hard.

Perhaps, but keep in mind the poster said that the correct decisions, which included getting Marleau to go on LTIR, were easy.

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

I can understand Dubas giving Matthews his contract because someone would have offer sheeted him. I think he should have held strong and let teams offersheet marner and match. Would have got a better deal than what we gave him and if not the 4 firsts would have had to come from a team in bad draft standing. He did not do a good job of using the offer sheet to his advantage like Carolina did with AHO.

However, where he faults in contract negotiations he makes up for in many other areas. The GM job is not just signing deals. Many GMs sign great contracts but have poor raport with players or cant draft or analyze talent. Dubas is strong in almost every other area.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Perhaps, but keep in mind the poster said that the correct decisions, which included getting Marleau to go on LTIR, were easy.

I never once said it was easy. And it was never going to happen with Babs in control. Losing our 1st rounder in a deep draft p*sses me off.

 

[htpwn]

I still hate the Marner contract and believe Dubas screwed it up, but...

Has any GM ever dealt with the kind of B.S. that Marner, Ferris, and Dreger pulled?

The threats to go to Europe? Okay, hardball, but not unheard of.
An RFA offer sheet tour? Never been done before.
A major hockey media personality acting as a player's personal propagandist? Doing interviews every couple days saying that a player is worth $5M more than he is actually worth? Absolutely unprecedented.

Context matters, not that the critics care.

 

[rent free]

If Matthews and Marner stopped improving today, they'd still be relatively fair value for the money - you wouldn't be able to get a 50 goal or a 94 point FA for less than what they're making. If MacK stopped developing when he signed his contract, he wouldn't be good value for the money considering that 6.3 gets you a 60 point UFA pretty easily in 2016.

if matthews and marner stopped improving, they'd be overpaid for their remaining terms of their deals

 

[Martin Skoula]

if matthews and marner stopped improving, they'd be overpaid for their remaining terms of their deals

How much do you think a 55 goal 90+ point C would cost under a 85-90 mil cap? Panarin just got 11.6 without having even broken Marner's totals, you're not getting 90+ point players for under 11 mil under a non-COVID cap.

Even with the flat cap, basically the worst case scenario anyone could have predicted a year ago, they're at worst minor enough overpayments that a good or bad playoff run is enough to tilt the answer to "do they bring 11 mil in on-ice value?".

 

[SeaOfBlue]

2020 is 3 rounds deep. We have not had a draft of this ilk for quite some time. We have a 2nd rounder that's it. We need a couple more picks. Trading lower level rounds for a 2nd or 3rd will be difficult.
2021 is terrible. It is maybe 10 picks max.
2022 harder to see but most saying it is a 1st round only.

Most prospects eligible for 2022 are not even playing in Junior yet, so what the heck do those people know? As someone who has been following the drafts in the CHL, there will be talent available after the 1st round. I am more concerned about what will fill the draft between the top guys like Savoie/Wright/Lambert/Luneau and the rest of the draft, but there is 2 years for that to be figured out.

As for this draft, it is heavily overrated. It has a nice top 10-15 and good wing depth which runs deep enough that we will be able to get a number of them in the mid-late rounds where we have a ton of picks. Defense is mostly average, and center/goalie is below average. No top 60 caliber goalies after Askarov, and many of the centes after the top 15 will either have to move to the wing or have good 3C/decent 2C upside. An average draft has legit top 6 caliber centers for at least the entire 1st round, if the top 45.