News Article: Agents Poll: Dubas voted the best GM to get client a good deal from

[Wafflewhipper]

Dubas' whole philosophy was supposed to be that you pay your stars and squeeze everyone else. That happened for none of these players. Again - the benefits of being able to get a massively front-loaded contract, with massive signing bonuses, playing with elite talent, and playing for a team that provides all kinds of perks that other teams don't, and has an amazing sports science department to keep them healthy, still did not result in any of these players accepting a reasonable deal. I would be happy if all 5 were gone within the next year.



Nope. Hyman has a good contract - and it was not front loaded at all and had zero bonuses either. He has outplayed his contract by a massive margin. None of the those three are likely to and their overpayments make it extremely difficult for the team to improve unless at least a couple of them are moved. And again - they are not just overpaid - they got frontloaded, bonus heavy contracts and still wouldn't take reasonable deals. None of them should have received more than Hyman.



Holl is a bottom pairing D who got to play with Muzzin, who makes his D partners' look better. He had played 52 career games at the time of his signing, averaging 15:40 a game. And had played more than 20 minutes a grand total of 5 times.



Engvall had played 35 games at 4th line TOI when he signed. Yes, his previous cap hit was 925K, but he had spent the entire year before in the minors, and had spent enough time in the minors this season that it was going to fall under 700K. He will have a difficult time making the NHL roster next year. He should have been a fully buriable cap hit, and should have considered himself lucky to have signed a one-way deal.

Most off the wall crazy post i have seen in quite some time. You would like every star we have gone in a year eh. Hahaaaa go shake yer pillow

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews - too much for the term
Marner - too much
Kapanen - too much
Johnsson - too much
Kerfoot - too much
Holl - too much
Engvall - too much

Almost all of these were ridiculously heavy on bonuses and front-loaded and the Leafs still couldn't squeeze players into reasonable contracts.

B.S exaggeration at best right here

 

[IPS]

Dubas' whole philosophy was supposed to be that you pay your stars and squeeze everyone else. That happened for none of these players. Again - the benefits of being able to get a massively front-loaded contract, with massive signing bonuses, playing with elite talent, and playing for a team that provides all kinds of perks that other teams don't, and has an amazing sports science department to keep them healthy, still did not result in any of these players accepting a reasonable deal. I would be happy if all 5 were gone within the next year.

Agreed fully.

Leafs are in no position to ice a $10M+ third line with Johnsson/Kerfoot/Kapanen. And not to mention these are completely the wrong depth players for the Leafs too. We need a 3rd line like the Bruins have, not another one dimensional scoring line.

Dubas needs to try his damnedest to convert them into some kind of top-4 D and use the money to re-sign Mikheyev and find some cheap 3rd liners who are good defensively and can hold the fort when the top-6 scores the goals. Hopefully Barabanov can be one. The current team composition is way out of whack.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe I am looking at the glass being half full but won’t this poll helps Leafs get their players. Bc if agents and players think Dubas will give them a good deal, won’t they want to come to the Leafs.
Maybe that’s why we managed to sign all those Euros free wallet.

For sure it can be looked at in a positive way. Unfortunately though he doesn’t save any cap though.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Matthews - too much for the term
Marner - too much
Kapanen - too much
Johnsson - too much
Kerfoot - too much
Holl - too much
Engvall - too much

Almost all of these were ridiculously heavy on bonuses and front-loaded and the Leafs still couldn't squeeze players into reasonable contracts.

I think the Kapanen deal is fine, plenty of comparable contracts. The rest I agree.

 

[Morbo]

B.S exaggeration at best right here

It's all you need around here. supporting arguments? pfffft

 

[Merrrlin]

I wonder if this is why we keep nabbing players we have no business in signing like Lehtonen? Good player relationships.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's all you need around here. supporting arguments? pfffft

It's just bait.

 

[4thline]

Nope. Hyman has a good contract - and it was not front loaded at all and had zero bonuses either. He has outplayed his contract by a massive margin. None of the those three are likely to and their overpayments make it extremely difficult for the team to improve unless at least a couple of them are moved. And again - they are not just overpaid - they got frontloaded, bonus heavy contracts and still wouldn't take reasonable deals. None of them should have received more than Hyman.

Other than this season (which we have no idea if he'll duplicate), Hyman outplaying his contract "by a massive margin" has been literally matching what the others did prior to signing.

He got signed for what a guy coming off a 28 point season with his other attributes should get, then emerged as a 40+ guy after.

The others were all 40+ point guys prior to their deals.

Kapanen played this season younger than Hyman was his first full year, has elite physical attributes that he's still learning how to use, and is unlikely to improve because why exactly?

Funnily enough, if Engvall finished the season at his overall rate he'd be pacing 3 points shy of the season that earned Hyman 2.25 x 4, yet somehow 1.25 is an egregious mistake.

 

[Mess]

Obvious poll results are obvious.

We really didn't need an official player agents poll to confirm what most Leaf fans already knew to be the case.

When your contracts for UFAs and RFAs are shattering the glass ceiling and setting new upper limits on player contracts, your going to be loved and praised by players and player agents alike.

However when those contracts send shock waves throughout the NHL community GMs, and then those contracts are viewed as anomalies and outliers by your own peers, and tossed out as comparables by the industry, you already have your evidence.

If NHL GMs hate your contracts, then by inversely proportional relationship, you already know player agents are going to love him for the very same reason.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Nothing surprising here. Only da truth. But Dubie is a rookie GM in da toughest market - Toronto. So give him a little breathing room to figure out da NHL and how to negotiate. That's how I look at it. He was placed in a very very tough spot. Tavares was Shanny's project. Matty and Mitch come from lower income homes and needed to take care of their families. and Willy's dad is notorious for deal making. and Dubie is managing da Leafs which print $$$. Again this is a very difficult spot to be in for anyone let alone a rook.

 

[cannucky]

Any agents that miss Mika Zibanejad @$5,350,000 per as one of the best team friendly deals in the league are not firing on all cylinders if you ask me. That guy is so good now and at that cap hit its a steal. He is as dangerous as most stars in the league. Just one of the top centers in the league now that gets little or no respect.

He’s scored 71 goals in his last 139 games for the rangers. Awesome player.

Lets not forget Mackinnon 6.3 and Rantanen 9.25 x 7 both of whom have out played our 11+ million C men the past three years , throw in some of the other deals Sakic has made and you can see just how bad a negotiator Dubas is but lets not reality interfere with the narrative eh !

 

[al secord]

Milan Lucic's agent had a good laugh.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Agreed fully.

Leafs are in no position to ice a $10M+ third line with Johnsson/Kerfoot/Kapanen. And not to mention these are completely the wrong depth players for the Leafs too. We need a 3rd line like the Bruins have, not another one dimensional scoring line.

Dubas needs to try his damnedest to convert them into some kind of top-4 D and use the money to re-sign Mikheyev and find some cheap 3rd liners who are good defensively and can hold the fort when the top-6 scores the goals. Hopefully Barabanov can be one. The current team composition is way out of whack.

Right they should maybe move Kerfoot. He is a luxury that is only $1,000,000 cheaper than Kadri and not close to as good. Honestly we all talked about the Luxury Kadri was but he was much better value than Kerfoot even at a million more. He just has more positive effect on the game.

So kerfoot needs to go for picks and prospects

Robertson has been talking about playing bottom 6 if needed to get his feet wet in the Nhl next season and he makes no bones about it that he is coming for a job and working hard towards it.

Johnsson could be moved if Robertson comes in and takes a job on the third line.

Kapanen could be replaced by Mikheyev also. I like both personally but it is potentially a option.

Thats a $10,100,000 saving there and teams would have interest in all three if that was the course management chose to go.

Its maybe not as bad as it looks. We need to sign Clifford back for a couple or three years and add some jam in the bottom six with out any doubt in my mind. I don’t know if all agree with that thinking.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lets not forget Mackinnon 6.3 and Rantanen 9.25 x 7 both of whom have out played our 11+ million C men the past three years , throw in some of the other deals Sakic has made and you can see just how bad a negotiator Dubas is but lets not reality interfere with the narrative eh !

Zibanejad is a New york Ranger. I hate the Kadri for the other two trade and never stopped moaning about it. I don’t like the composition of the team he’s built much to soft for my liking. I didn’t like the faith he showed in Hutch. I don’t like full NMC’s on our top players contracts except Tavares contract.

Its not a narrative when posters don’t want to recognize cap escalation and many other factors involved in negotiations of a contract. Marner had a 94 point season previous to his negotiating off season. Then all the bean counters ignore that little fact. Like F*** I’m the one with the narrative

 

[hotpaws]

Milan Lucic's agent had a good laugh.

I’m sure he did but unfortunately he can’t vote for the GM that gave out that deal since he’s no longer employed .

i’m assuming you also believe Dubas should be relieved of his duties considering he was voted the num 1 bitch by agents

 

[rent free]

Unsurprising. Love his drafting, hate his RFA negotiations. Even the Kerfoot and Holl deals piss me off.

Matthews - too much for the term
Marner - too much
Kapanen - too much
Johnsson - too much
Kerfoot - too much
Holl - too much
Engvall - too much

Almost all of these were ridiculously heavy on bonuses and front-loaded and the Leafs still couldn't squeeze players into reasonable contracts.

It still shocks me how people still can't fathom that he's a bad negotiator.

 

[biotk]

Most off the wall crazy post i have seen in quite some time. You would like every star we have gone in a year eh. Hahaaaa go shake yer pillow

If Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl are every star "we" have then this team has issues. All five of them are complementary players who are overpaid.

When Sandin signed he was told that this was a cap team and if he wanted performance bonuses it was going to make it more difficult for the team to make the NHL lineup. He did not take performance bonuses. All of Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl should have been told that this team is in a major cap crunch and if they did not sign reasonable deals that they would likely to get traded to free up space. They are all overpaid. They should all be moved. Unfortunately, they won't be worth much (with the exception of Kapanen) because the Cap is not going up. People should understand that - when they dream about all the UFAs this team is going to sign cheap because of the cap didn't go up and many other teams are in a money crunch - that means that few of those teams will want Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall or Holl when there will be cheaper alternatives.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl are every star "we" have then this team has issues. All five of them are complementary players who are overpaid.

When Sandin signed he was told that this was a cap team and if he wanted performance bonuses it was going to make it more difficult for the team to make the NHL lineup. He did not take performance bonuses. All of Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl should have been told that this team is in a major cap crunch and if they did not sign reasonable deals that they would likely to get traded to free up space. They are all overpaid. They should all be moved.

Oh damn i misunderstood. Sorry bro. I still think you hate on Dubas to much ha actually i agree they could all be moved. Now i feel rude. Sorry bro

 

[The Podium]

Obvious poll results are obvious.

We really didn't need an official player agents poll to confirm what most Leaf fans already knew to be the case.

When your contracts for UFAs and RFAs are shattering the glass ceiling and setting new upper limits on player contracts, your going to be loved and praised by players and player agents alike.

However when those contracts send shock waves throughout the NHL community GMs, and then those contracts are viewed as anomalies and outliers by your own peers, and tossed out as comparables by the industry, you already have your evidence.

If NHL GMs hate your contracts, then by inversely proportional relationship, you already know player agents are going to love him for the very same reason.

First of all, when going by Cap % none of Toronto's deals shattered anything. With the steady rise in the cap over the past decade, the most recent signings will be the newest highest number. For example, none of Toronto's deals come close to Crosbys 17.3% second contract ($14 mill today) or Ovis 18.96% (15.5 mill today).

Now, add the rising cap to the new trend of paying your stars out of their ELCs and you get a perfect storm that exposed the Leafs but few other teams. Unfortunately for Toronto, with the stagnant cap and the uncertainty moving forward, were probably the only team exposed by the trend.

Lets take a trip down memory lane shall we. You have 2 players, Player A and Player B.

Player A - signs 7 years at 8%
72GP 15G 23A 38Pts
82GP 25G 39A 64Pts

Player B - signs 6 years at 8.76%
22GP 6G 7A 13Pts
81GP 22G 39A 61Pts
82GP 20G 41A 61Pts

Player B (Nylander) had 2 years of top line production compared to Player A (Ehlers) who had 1.

Another comparison:

Player A - signs 8 years at 13.33%

Stats:
81GP 24G 32A 56Pts
61GP 24G 33A 57Pts
Playoffs: 0

Player B signs 5 years at 14.63%

Stats:
82GP 40G 29A 69Pts
62GP 34G 29A 63Pts
38GP 23G 23A 46 Pts
Playoffs: 3

I think its fair to say Player A (Eichel) was used as a comparable for Player B (Matthews) who was significantly better at the time of the signing. You can fault Dubas for the term, but contrary to popular belief it wasnt Dubas that set the market for other contracts with either of Nylander or Matthews.

I cant justify the Marner contract

 

[biotk]

Oh damn i misunderstood. Sorry bro. I still think you hate on Dubas to much ha

Its all good. And actually, I am a Dubas fan. Think he is great drafting. Think he has been pretty decent at trades. Think that he has a good vision, although I think that the team needs more grit and a-hole-ness but I think (or maybe simply hope) that he knows that too. I don't blame him for the overpayments of Matthews and Marner. I think that he was in a unwinnable position, and also that contract negotiations are not primarily made by the GM.

 

[biotk]

Other than this season (which we have no idea if he'll duplicate), Hyman outplaying his contract "by a massive margin" has been literally matching what the others did prior to signing.

If you base contracts solely on points you are going to have a terrible team. Hyman brings value that none of Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall, or Holl can.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Its all good. And actually, I am a Dubas fan. Think he is great drafting. Think he has been pretty decent at trades. Think that he has a good vision, although I think that the team needs more grit and a-hole-ness but I think (or maybe simply hope) that he knows that too. I don't blame him for the overpayments of Matthews and Marner. I think that he was in a unwinnable position, and also that contract negotiations are not primarily made by the GM.

I think Marner after a 94 point season was getting in the 10 million range regardless. I hoped $10,500,000 maximum. So i see $400,000 over payment and he or Matthews should have never gotten anything but a Modified no trade clause. The full NMC makes me want to pull my hair out. I really don’t know what he was thinking. Matthews and Marner basically have a 23/24 NMC and have to be extended before that kicks in. I would be surprised if either left but its quite the uncomfortable bargaining position he’s put himself in if they hit UFA.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl are every star "we" have then this team has issues. All five of them are complementary players who are overpaid.

When Sandin signed he was told that this was a cap team and if he wanted performance bonuses it was going to make it more difficult for the team to make the NHL lineup. He did not take performance bonuses. All of Kapanen, Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall and Holl should have been told that this team is in a major cap crunch and if they did not sign reasonable deals that they would likely to get traded to free up space. They are all overpaid. They should all be moved. Unfortunately, they won't be worth much (with the exception of Kapanen) because the Cap is not going up. People should understand that - when they dream about all the UFAs this team is going to sign cheap because of the cap didn't go up and many other teams are in a money crunch - that means that few of those teams will want Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall or Holl when there will be cheaper alternatives.

Agree with this assessment except Kappy. Kappy can break a game open with his exceptional speed. And he can PK. And now he has shown some grit with Clifford arrival too. But other 4 guys will be difficult trades. But 1 or 2 must be done. Now get er done Dubie.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Agree with this assessment except Kappy. Kappy can break a game open with his exceptional speed. And he can PK. And now he has shown some grit with Clifford arrival too. But other 4 guys will be difficult trades. But 1 or 2 must be done. Now get er done Dubie.

and we need 2020 2nd and 3rd round picks for Kerfoot and AJ ... 2021/2 are pretty weak draft years so rather have prospects than those years picks