Adam Larsson..

[goonybird]

While I don't agree with you, it's probably closer than most think. The Volchenkov of Ottawa was completely different than the Volchenkov of NJ.

That said, Volchenkov did/does not have nearly the same amount of skill as Larsson. Completely different players.

Seriously. Volch was good early in his career, but they had pretty similar defensive+possession stats and Larsson is obviously better at skating and well everything else.

Volch more skilled than Larsson. I bet that people have been fired for less silly statements

 

[The Devil In I]

Better shot, passing and decision making and less goals, assist and points in an a more open era. OK boss.

If you think Larsson is better than a lockout era Volchenkov you are just simply wrong. But I won't prolong this.

The least amount of goals Ottawa scored in a season during Volchenkov's first 5 years - 261. And they reached 300+ one of those years.

The most amount of goals the Devils have scored in Larsson's first 5 years - 228.

"More open era" is a great spin. Volchenkov was a better passer? He was described as a grenade-handler from the get-go.

 

[JimEIV]

How is the NHL now less open than 2006+ lool

I never said that. I said Larsson has produced less in a more open era.

When Volchenkov started his career it was Pre-lockout...that was some of the tighest, low scoring most clutch and grab hockey we've ever seen.

 

[JimEIV]

The least amount of goals Ottawa scored in a season during Volchenkov's first 5 years - 261. And they reached 300+ one of those years.

The most amount of goals the Devils have scored in Larsson's first 5 years - 228.

"More open era" is a great spin. Volchenkov was a better passer? He was described as a grenade-handler from the get-go.

The grenade handler:
first 229 games 9 goals, 46 assist 55 points.

The #4 overall pick:
230 games 7 goals. 51 assist 58 points.

About 1/3 of Volchenkov's first 229 games were Pre-lockout.

 

[Nocashstyle]

^Volchenkov was also playing on strong Ottawa teams and presumably, much higher scoring than the Devils of late

 

[JimEIV]

A little context Niedermayer was able to win the Norris Pre-lockout with 54 points in 2004.

 

[NJDevs26]

Who cares about 2002-03 Volchenkov? 2002-03 Volchenkov would not have been nearly the defensive force early in his career if it started post lockout that he was under the old rules.

 

[JimEIV]

Who cares about 2002-03 Volchenkov? 2002-03 Volchenkov would not have been nearly the defensive force early in his career if it started post lockout that he was under the old rules.

That's fair. New rules certainly would've taken away some of his hitting game, but he still was a very high level defender post lockout.

He wasn't just some Salvador who was pretty much a 5/6 dman most of his career. Volchenkov was a dominate defender for a good number of years before the wheels came off.

 

[Nocashstyle]

A little context Niedermayer was able to win the Norris Pre-lockout with 54 points in 2004.

And Gonchar put up 58. the year before that, Macinnis and Gonchar put up 68 and 67 points. In 06 Lidstrom put up 80. I don't see your point. If we're talking about Volchenkovs offensive output in his first 5 seasons

 

[JimEIV]

And Gonchar put up 58. the year before that, Macinnis and Gonchar put up 68 and 67 points. In 06 Lidstrom put up 80. I don't see your point...

Scoring was very low pre vs post lockout. You essentially illustrated that in your post.

So if you take a player whose first 33+% of his 229 games were in that low scoring era and compare him to a defender today it's a bit different.

Right now there are a dozen dmen on track for 50+ points. That wasn't nearly the case in 2004.

That was my point.

 

[devilsblood]

The sad part about this report is that Lars is not anywhere near the same stratosphere as Hedman and likely won't ever be considering that his skating and offensive abilities are so poor. Almost nothing from those scouting reports turned out to be true and they were written four years ago.

I think those of you who are convinced that we got a good enough result from that 4th overall pick aren't being objective and truthful with yourselves. Larsson isn't a good skater as advertised. Larsson can't "take a game over" as advertised. He's merely a 3/4 defensive d-man who doesn't really excell at anything in particular, that's a huge disappointment for fourth overall.

At 23 years of age he has shown he can handle top pairing minutes. Actually he shown it at 22 years of age.

No he's not a take over a game type of d-man, but that does not make him a disappointment, let alone a huge disappointment. There is "hope" that a top 5 pick will be a superstar, but the objective thinker does not expect one, and does not call a player of Lars's ability a
huge disappointment.

 

[devilsblood]

And yes Volch was a good player. He was a first round pick in hid own right, but it should be noted that he did not play in the NHL until 2 years after his draft year. He turned 21 his rookie year. Lars played immediately after his draft year and turned 19 during that season.

 

[JimEIV]

At 23 years of age he has shown he can handle top pairing minutes. Actually he shown it at 22 years of age.

No he's a take over a game type of d-man, but that does not make him a disappointment, let alone a huge disappointment. There is "hope" that a top 5 pick will be a superstar, but the objective thinker does not expect one, and does not call a player of Lars's ability a
huge disappointment.

Superstar? I don't think that anyone would "expect" that....very good, for a #4 overall, absolutely.

Larsson has not been very good. Sorry if that offends some, but that is just the truth. 5 years into the league and he just now (and last year) becoming a dependable every day player....again, sorry if it offends, but that is way below expectations.

If you are going to be honest, here is my question to you....is Larsson a better defenseman than Paul Martin was here in NJ, at equal part of their careers?

My expectation was for a better dman than Martin and he has yet to come close to that level.

 

[Triumph]

Superstar? I don't think that anyone would "expect" that....very good, for a #4 overall, absolutely.

Larsson has not been very good. Sorry if that offends some, but that is just the truth. 5 years into the league and he just now (and last year) becoming a dependable every day player....again, sorry if it offends, but that is way below expectations.

If you are going to be honest, here is my question to you....is Larsson a better defenseman than Paul Martin was here in NJ, at equal part of their careers?

My expectation was for a better dman than Martin and he has yet to come close to that level.

When you're making silly comparisons, you should try harder. Larsson turned 23 in November - Martin turned 23 in his rookie year in the NHL, then spent the next year playing in Switzerland because of the lockout. The road was not always straight, but you can't change the past - there's still room for Larsson to grow.

 

[devilsblood]

Paul Martin was 5 months younger then Lars now is in his first season with the Devils.

If we go off Lars' 22 year old season, when he was younger then Martin was as a rookie, they produced similar offensive #'s despite Lars playing less games, with near zero pp minutes and heavy PK minutes. Martin received a healthy portion of pp and about 40 seconds pg of pk. Lars outproduced Martin 21 - 14 at ES. On a putrid offensive team

And yeah Martin had a good rookie season.

 

[JimEIV]

Paul Martin was 5 months younger then Lars now is in his first season with the Devils.

If we go off Lars' 22 year old season, when he was younger then Martin was as a rookie, they produced similar offensive #'s despite Lars playing less games, with near zero pp minutes and heavy PK minutes. Martin received a healthy portion of pp and about 40 seconds pg of pk. Lars outproduced Martin 21 - 14 at ES. On a putrid offensive team

And yeah Martin had a good rookie season.

Martin was anchoring the top pairing immediately after Niedermayer left. There were nights he was playing 30 minutes a game in his first 3 years.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Martin was anchoring the top pairing immediately after Niedermayer left. There were nights he was playing 30 minutes a game in his first 3 years.

Rafalski and White were the top 2 dmen on the team after Nieds left. Martin came into his own a few years later.

 

[devilsblood]

Martin was anchoring the top pairing immediately after Niedermayer left. There were nights he was playing 30 minutes a game in his first 3 years.

When he was 25-26 years old.

And again Martin was a good player. Why are we trying to discredit Lars by comparing him to good players when they were older then he now is?

 

[Triumph]

Martin was anchoring the top pairing immediately after Niedermayer left. There were nights he was playing 30 minutes a game in his first 3 years.

There were nights Larsson was playing 25 minutes a game at age 19. Again, this comparison is asinine. You are not comparing like to like at all. Ages matter, and you continually seem to think they don't. Paul Martin was 25 years old before he ever played 30 minutes in a single NHL game.

 

[devilsblood]

Rafalski and White were the top 2 dmen on the team after Nieds left. Martin came into his own a few years later.

martin played very big minutes in all situations in Nied's first year gone.

 

[NJDevs26]

Superstar? I don't think that anyone would "expect" that....very good, for a #4 overall, absolutely.

Larsson has not been very good. Sorry if that offends some, but that is just the truth. 5 years into the league and he just now (and last year) becoming a dependable every day player....again, sorry if it offends, but that is way below expectations.

If you are going to be honest, here is my question to you....is Larsson a better defenseman than Paul Martin was here in NJ, at equal part of their careers?

My expectation was for a better dman than Martin and he has yet to come close to that level.

Larsson's consistently played 25 minutes a game on the top pairing at age 22-23 and for a full season's worth of games. If this was Severson or Merrill you'd wonder why people weren't getting more excited about that. You continually reference #4 overall but all these players are in the league playing with different roles and at different ages, draft pick's irrelevant right now.

If Larsson was drafted in the second round and Severson or Merrill were a #4 overall would you be holding them to the same impossible standards you hold Larsson to while getting excited over every little improvement Larsson makes?

 

[goonybird]

Larsson's consistently played 25 minutes a game on the top pairing at age 22-23 and for a full season's worth of games. If this was Severson or Merrill you'd wonder why people weren't getting more excited about that. You continually reference #4 overall but all these players are in the league playing with different roles and at different ages, draft pick's irrelevant right now.

If Larsson was drafted in the second round and Severson or Merrill were a #4 overall would you be holding them to the same impossible standards you hold Larsson to while getting excited over every little improvement Larsson makes?

Agree with you that there's definitely a lot to be excited about, especially how consistent he's been with his new partner. Contrast that with Greene-Moore and Merrill-Severson. They've been turnover machines

 

[JimEIV]

Larsson's consistently played 25 minutes a game on the top pairing at age 22-23 and for a full season's worth of games. If this was Severson or Merrill you'd wonder why people weren't getting more excited about that. You continually reference #4 overall but all these players are in the league playing with different roles and at different ages, draft pick's irrelevant right now.

If Larsson was drafted in the second round and Severson or Merrill were a #4 overall would you be holding them to the same impossible standards you hold Larsson to while getting excited over every little improvement Larsson makes?

That would certainly be a a very different scenario.

If Larsson was a 2nd round pick I'd be be very satisfied with good top 4 NHL Dman.

If Severson were a number #4 I would be happy with what I've seen so far after 88 games. If Merrill were a #4 I would be very upset with what I've seen so far.

But Merrill has been better through his first 146 games than Larsson was, by a lot.

So with all of that Larsson as a #4 is a huge disappointment to me.

 

[NJDevs26]

That would certainly be a a very different scenario.

If Larsson was a 2nd round pick I'd be be very satisfied with good top 4 NHL Dman.

If Severson were a number #4 I would be happy with what I've seen so far after 88 games. If Merrill were a #4 I would be very upset with what I've seen so far.

But Merrill has been better through his first 146 games than Larsson was, by a lot.

So with all of that Larsson as a #4 is a huge disappointment to me.

Merrill's also nine months older than Larsson and didn't play in the league until he was 21 after he'd already had college and some AHL experience. You're essentially penalizing Larsson for starting out at 19 without any previous North American pro experience by directly comparing 'their first 146 games' without any other context.

 

[JimEIV]

Merrill's also nine months OLDER than Larsson and didn't play in the league until he was 21 after he'd already had college and some AHL experience. You're essentially penalizing Larsson for starting out at 19 without any previous North American pro experience by directly comparing 'their first 146 games' without any other context.

That's a reasonable argument but you are leaving out Larsson's pedigree....he was a #4 overall and considered the most NHL ready player in his draft. He has not come close to that billing.

To date, what Larsson has shown doesn't justify his draft position or hype. Is this really that outrageous of a thought or comment?