Adam Larsson..

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

It seems the fault would be more in the people who hyped Larsson than with Larsson himself then if he's just a disappointment because of his pre-draft hype.

It's not as if Larsson hyped or drafted himself. It's silly to blame him for things he had no control over.

 

[NJD Kula]

Larsson is arguably NJ's best defenseman at 22 but is a disappointment because he's not Scott Neidermayer?

In a season or two he will be playing 30 mins a game in all situations and we'll see his goals and assists soar along with his already stellar defensive game. I don't doubt this will happen as we've seen what he can do, right now it's about letting him grow still, no need to wear down a 22 year old who isn't entirely used to 82 games a season at over 25 mins a night.

Also this team is surprisingly doing well, now imagine if they get one or two more top flight players, that kind of talent will help everyone put up more flashy stats. Woo!

 

[Nocashstyle]

Scoring was very low pre vs post lockout. You essentially illustrated that in your post.

So if you take a player whose first 33+% of his 229 games were in that low scoring era and compare him to a defender today it's a bit different.

Right now there are a dozen dmen on track for 50+ points. That wasn't nearly the case in 2004.

That was my point.

But you completely disregarded the point that Larsson has been playing on bottom 5 scoring teams and early in Volchenkov's carreer he was playing on very good and high scoring Ottawa teams...

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Larsson is arguably NJ's best defenseman at 22 but is a disappointment because he's not Scott Neidermayer?

In a season or two he will be playing 30 mins a game in all situations and we'll see his goals and assists soar along with his already stellar defensive game. I don't doubt this will happen as we've seen what he can do, right now it's about letting him grow still, no need to wear down a 22 year old who isn't entirely used to 82 games a season at over 25 mins a night.

Also this team is surprisingly doing well, now imagine if they get one or two more top flight players, that kind of talent will help everyone put up more flashy stats. Woo!

Thank you for being optimistic. We could use some of that around here as we enter the New Year

 

[JimEIV]

It seems the fault would be more in the people who hyped Larsson than with Larsson himself then if he's just a disappointment because of his pre-draft hype.

It's not as if Larsson hyped or drafted himself. It's silly to blame him for things he had no control over.

It's more than just press clippings though. I think it's completely reasonable to expect a certain level from a pick that high...good NHL player is about the floor in my opinion.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Two threads, same topic.

Come on Jim, Lars is a very solid player and still very young.

Optimism on NYE.

 

[Triumph]

That's a reasonable argument but you are leaving out Larsson's pedigree....he was a #4 overall and considered the most NHL ready player in his draft. He has not come close to that billing.

To date, what Larsson has shown doesn't justify his draft position or hype. Is this really that outrageous of a thought or comment?

Yes, because you're not taking into account the draft strength, and this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Is Larsson great compared to other 4th overall picks? No. Does he look fine when compared with the players taken after him in his draft class? Yeah. Doug Hamilton's the only guy taken after him I'd definitely rather have and even he's had his issues in Calgary this year. You can only work with what you're given, and to that end Larsson is a fine pick.

The idea that 'good NHL player' is the floor for a 4th overall pick is simply not knowing NHL draft history.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

It's more than just press clippings though. I think it's completely reasonable to expect a certain level from a pick that high...good NHL player is about the floor in my opinion.

If you aren't going to be happy with a good NHL player just because he was drafted fourth overall, that's your prerogative. I'm just happy with a good NHL player regardless of draft position.

 

[JimEIV]

Yes, because you're not taking into account the draft strength, and this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Is Larsson great compared to other 4th overall picks? No. Does he look fine when compared with the players taken after him in his draft class? Yeah. Doug Hamilton's the only guy taken after him I'd definitely rather have and even he's had his issues in Calgary this year. You can only work with what you're given, and to that end Larsson is a fine pick.

The idea that 'good NHL player' is the floor for a 4th overall pick is simply not knowing NHL draft history.

Oh boy. I don' t know you, but I'm willing to bet I've been following the NHL draft closely since before you were born.

Not nearly as closely as someone like Brodeur(user name) and my only avenue for information back in the 1980's was The Hockey News, but trust me I know the history of the NHL draft going back to early to mid 1980's very well.

And I have never questioned the Larsson pick, so much so that I have said there was no other choice...that doesn't dismiss the disappointment of the outcome.

 

[Bleedred]

The only thing I'd like to see more out of Larsson is some more offense. It would help a **** of a lot right now, with this team and needing goals from Cammalleri, Palmieri, Henrique or Stempniak, just to score more than 1 goal most nights.

I wish we could utilize his offense, as he has shown last year and in his rookie season.

I never thought he was a bad player at any point though. He wasn't that great at certain points under Pete after the hit from Subban, but he wasn't that bad either. I never felt like he wasn't at least a middle/bottom pairing defenseman in even his worst days.

I feel like he's been very good at defending since at least the start of the 14-15 season, even before Pete was gone.

 

[Triumph]

Oh boy. I don' t know you, but I'm willing to bet I've been following the NHL draft closely since before you were born.

Not nearly as closely as someone like Brodeur(user name) and my only avenue for information back in the 1980's was The Hockey News, but trust me I know the history of the NHL draft going back to early to mid 1980's very well.

And I have never questioned the Larsson pick, so much so that I have said there was no other choice...that doesn't dismiss the disappointment of the outcome.

If you've been following drafts that long your statement is even more ignorant if you're taking that knowledge into account. The top of the draft has become safer in recent years, but the idea that a 'good NHL player' is the floor of a 4th overall pick is ridiculous, and no one who knows about the draft would make such a statement.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I also enjoy how that Adam Larsson, who just turned 23 years old last month, is somehow now thought of as a "finished" NHL player.

I also enjoy the "lack of offense" points. what do you freaking expect when he is being started in the offensive zone LITERALLY less than any DMan in the NHL and does not get any PP time? how do you expect him to produce offense, ESPECIALLY on a team that is bottom 5-10 in the league offensively overall?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

That's a reasonable argument but you are leaving out Larsson's pedigree....he was a #4 overall and considered the most NHL ready player in his draft. He has not come close to that billing.

To date, what Larsson has shown doesn't justify his draft position or hype. Is this really that outrageous of a thought or comment?

The issue with this line of thinking is that different draft years have different strengths and depths. That year just wasn't that deep. So I'd say he has justified that 4th overall selection in THAT YEAR. If he was picked that high in a much deeper draft class then yeah, you could say he didn't meet the expectations of that high a pick. Tell me, what other 1st round D man would you rather have had that year?

 

[JimEIV]

If you've been following drafts that long your statement is even more ignorant if you're taking that knowledge into account. The top of the draft has become safer in recent years, but the idea that a 'good NHL player' is the floor of a 4th overall pick is ridiculous, and no one who knows about the draft would make such a statement.

I really don't feel like having this pissing contest right now, but in the 10 years before the Larsson draft only Thomas Hickey hasn't played 400+ NHL games. From the 4th draft position... 90 percent of #4 overalls have been good nhl players from 2000 to 2010.

 

[Triumph]

I really don't feel like having this pissing contest right now, but in the 10 years before the Larsson draft only Thomas Hickey hasn't played 400+ NHL games. From the 4th draft position... 90 percent of #4 overalls have been good nhl players from 2000 to 2010.

Yeah, when you artifically constrain your data set to fit your point, you come out looking better. Where's Alex Volchkhov, Jason Bonsigniore, Pavel Brendl or Scott Lachance? Ah, what are the odds, they happen just before your mark of 10 years ago. Or Cam Barker or Alex Svitov? Right - Barker and Svitov were taken 3rd overall, so they don't fit, they weren't exactly 4th overall. I agree that NHL scouting has made it so that 4th overall and above busts are certainly rarer, but we may be seeing another one with Griffin Reinhart. It's more common than you think it is.

 

[Tedenboozled]

The only thing I'd like to see more out of Larsson is some more offense. It would help a **** of a lot right now, with this team and needing goals from Cammalleri, Palmieri, Henrique or Stempniak, just to score more than 1 goal most nights.

I wish we could utilize his offense, as he has shown last year and in his rookie season.

I never thought he was a bad player at any point though. He wasn't that great at certain points under Pete after the hit from Subban, but he wasn't that bad either. I never felt like he wasn't at least a middle/bottom pairing defenseman in even his worst days.

I feel like he's been very good at defending since at least the start of the 14-15 season, even before Pete was gone.

Pretty rough to produce when you're starting literally a fifth of your shifts on offense and you get zero powerplay time though.

I have no quarrels with Larsson's overall performance. He's handling his league-hardest minutes very well and he's doing so regardless of who he's put out with... who the hell cares if he's not scoring loads in addition to this. We need him to defend above all else because we're not that good, and he's following orders. Get off his arse.

 

[JimEIV]

Yeah, when you artifically constrain your data set to fit your point, you come out looking better. Where's Alex Volchkhov, Jason Bonsigniore, Pavel Brendl or Scott Lachance? Ah, what are the odds, they happen just before your mark of 10 years ago. Or Cam Barker or Alex Svitov? Right - Barker and Svitov were taken 3rd overall, so they don't fit, they weren't exactly 4th overall. I agree that NHL scouting has made it so that 4th overall and above busts are certainly rarer, but we may be seeing another one with Griffin Reinhart. It's more common than you think it is.

Scott Lechance? He played 800+ NHL games... you are going back to the Niedermayer draft to prove a point? And a bad one at that. Scott was a senior at BU when I was a sophomore at Northeastern. I know his career very well.

 

[The Devil In I]

The grenade handler:
first 229 games 9 goals, 46 assist 55 points.

The #4 overall pick:
230 games 7 goals. 51 assist 58 points.

About 1/3 of Volchenkov's first 229 games were Pre-lockout.

NHL average goals per team per game in 03-04 (chose that season because it's the lowest) - 2.57

NHL average goals per game per team in Larsson's career has varied between 2.67 (this year so far) and 2.74.

We might as well be back in the damn 80s with all this goal scoring!

Oh and you've completely ignored that the Sens were an offensive powerhouse for Volch's first 5 years, conveniently.

 

[Marshal Rochambeau]

I think Larsson is a perfect hockey player. He does his job and I bet if Hynes told him to get more points he'd do it. Right now Hynes is saying, "Steady defense, get it out of the zone, let Cam worry about offense." Then, when Larsson gets comfortable playing safe defense, he'll learn how to play safe offense, and then we'll have a numbef 1.

 

[goonybird]

I also enjoy how that Adam Larsson, who just turned 23 years old last month, is somehow now thought of as a "finished" NHL player.

I also enjoy the "lack of offense" points. what do you freaking expect when he is being started in the offensive zone LITERALLY less than any DMan in the NHL and does not get any PP time? how do you expect him to produce offense, ESPECIALLY on a team that is bottom 5-10 in the league offensively overall?

He should take advantage of the rare times he's up there!

Damon "4 pts more and pp time" Severson gets it done though!

 

[Tretyak 20]

Anyone silly enough to be disappointed with Larsson's development should acknowledge the source of the problem - Lou Lamoriello. It was Lou's terrible mismanagement of the team the last three years or so that turned Larsson's development into a total cluster-****.

 

[JimEIV]

He should take advantage of the rare times he's up there!

Damon "4 pts more and pp time" Severson gets it done though!

I only look at 5v5 points. Damon has 8, no one else on the team has more than 4. Massive difference
when you consider ice time.

And we are talking about a kid 88 games into his career who just turned legal to have a beer 3 months ago.
Sexy! Adam was a healthy scratch or sent down to the AHL at this stage of his career....but we can revise history so we all can feel good on New Year's Eve.

 

[Scorcho]

The sad part about this report is that Lars is not anywhere near the same stratosphere as Hedman and likely won't ever be considering that his skating and offensive abilities are so poor. Almost nothing from those scouting reports turned out to be true and they were written four years ago.

I think those of you who are convinced that we got a good enough result from that 4th overall pick aren't being objective and truthful with yourselves. Larsson isn't a good skater as advertised. Larsson can't "take a game over" as advertised. He's merely a 3/4 defensive d-man who doesn't really excell at anything in particular, that's a huge disappointment for fourth overall.

you forget how long it took hedman to emerge as a #1

 

[Scorcho]

and most of you are forgetting that jim has alot of bad opinions.

 

[JimEIV]

and most of you are forgetting that jim has alot of bad opinions.

Not really. I'm mostly right and you all make believe that that previous conversations never happened when you're proven wrong.