Confirmed with Link: Adam Fox for 2019 2nd (NYR), 2020 3rd (cond.)

[Off Sides]

Pionk's issues are not your common rookie defensive issues.

The game is just simply too fast for him to process and he lacks the raw tools to get by. He showed zero improvement as the season went on, thats the biggest red flag for me.

The odd thing to me, Pionk when he rushes the puck has confidence, yet on the flip side any time he has to defend an entry, or try to make a break out under any pressure at all that confidence is not there.

All the same in the context of who I think I'd rather see the Rangers have given their deficiencies, like I have to keep one or the other, Pionk and his cap hit, or Shattenkirk and his, I'm taking Pionk.

 

[True Blue]

I'm still adamant that Lindgren will be one of those guys.

I believe that he can be and he showed that. One of the bigger issues the Rangers have is how to fit in both Hajek and Lindgren next year.

 

[JT Kreider]

I believe that he can be and he showed that. One of the bigger issues the Rangers have is how to fit in both Hajek and Lindgren next year.

Trade Skjei for Nylander

 

[Beacon]

I remember reading somewhere on the boards sometime ago Fox partnered with Lindgren, and worked seamlessly together. Good for them both.

Gropp worked well with Barzal in the Juniors, doesn't mean it would ever happen in the NHL. Our draftee Bob Maudie centered Iginla in the Juniors, doesn't mean Calgary repeated that in the NHL after we refused to give him a contract.

 

[mas0764]

Trouba is a guy that if he was on the FA market for free at 26 years old next year, and I had a glaring need at top pairing RD, and I could afford it, I'd throw a lot of money at.

But we aren't competing next year, really. And we don't know what the state of our RD will look like in a year. We have DeAngelo. We now have Fox. We have Pionk. We have Shattenkirk still. We have Lundkvist and others in the pipeline. We also have a ton of left side Ds.... Lindgren, Skjei, Miller, Rykov, Hajek, etc. Not all will pan out, but we like them all currently.

I'm just not in a rush to tie up 7 or 8 million for 6 years on Trouba when the guys we have coming up may be close to as good.

I get that our right side Ds are all "same-ish" in that they are smaller, puck moving types for whom actually defending isn't their specialty, but is it impossible that one of the LDs with size can't move to the right side? Is it impossible that it works if we have a right side of Fox-DeAngelo-Lundkvist with Miller-Hajek-Lindgren/Rykov on the left side?

Panarin is different, IMO.

I'll find space for a 90 point forward any day of the week. Not sure Trouba is quite that special.

 

[kovazub94]

Nothing is better than having too many RDs. They bring back a premium in every trade. A 6 RD gets you an 8 Winger.

Not disagreeing. Pionk should not be given up for free (as many suggested).

Skjei and Pionk for Trouba gives Jets a ready made 2LD behind Morrissey and 3RD in Pionk on a cheap and with some upside potential for both.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Most of them probably would if you bundled Winnipeg's 1st with Kreider. Logic being in you fail in your PO run you can trade him for a 1st yourself at the deadline.

21st + next years 23rd (if you cant make the POs or sing him) for 13th or something doesn't seem too far off.

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone that Kreider is only worth moving from the low 20s to the mid-high teens

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Pionk's issues are not your common rookie defensive issues.

The game is just simply too fast for him to process and he lacks the raw tools to get by. He showed zero improvement as the season went on, thats the biggest red flag for me.

Not only did he not get better, but he actually regressed. He looked worse as the season went on. Kept making the same mistakes he was making a year earlier.

His constant usage on the PK made no sense, it seemed like for a while him on the PK would come with like a 75% chance of a goal against. The kid is not a defensive stalwart, the defensive side of the game is his weakness no matter how hard he looks like he's battling.

The hopes of him becoming a top 4 guy I think are gone. He could possibly carve out a career as a 3rd pair sheltered minutes PP2 guy - in the right environment with the right partner in the right system. I'm just not sure he fits in here going forward.

 

[CREW99AW]

Really impressive offseason for your organization.
I had read a fan post that Fox grew up a NYR fan, so I thought he would likely sign with you guys .
How close to nhl ready is he?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Trade Skjei for Nylander

Yuck

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Really impressive offseason for your organization.
I had read a fan post that Fox grew up a NYR fan, so I thought he would likely sign with you guys .
How close to nhl ready is he?

I’d guess he’ll play in the NHL next season

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Yeah that second pick doesn’t bother me at all; it means Fox is probably doing something right.

What did Howden do right last season? He should have spend most of the season in AHL.

 

[darko]

What did Howden do right last season? He should have spend most of the season in AHL.

Lot of things. 23 in 66 as a 20 year old while making the jump straight from WHL. Started well, sucked and then finished off ok. More than held his own and will benefit next season from it.

 

[bernmeister]

Trade Skjei for Nylander

I wish, and you think they would yield to the reality that they need G help and could use Georgiev and would add to Nyl for that package.

I think the best we can hope for on that is:
Skjei + Winni [18-21OA]
for
Montreal 1st 15OA + possibly small short term cap dump

then flip 15OA + Buch for another jump up
maybe a little lite for EDM 8OA, possible with further add,
but should get into the top 10

 

[kovazub94]

Fox probably wanted to turn pro--Carolina probably wanted him to turn pro too but Fox didn't want to play for Carolina (or Calgary for that matter). He wanted to play for the Rangers and maybe nobody else and the Rangers liked and wanted him apparently enough that they gave what amounts to probably 2 2nd's for him and considering that between Fox and the Rangers they kind of had the Hurricanes over the barrel--to give up that much instead of waiting a year and potentially giving up nothing and getting him for free the Rangers must think a whole hell of a lot of Fox.

Bolded is the truth. Some additional consideration included in the price was a risk that Fox's main priority was to play this season and so there was a risk of him changing his mind if the Rangers didn't get him and accept trade elsewhere.

 

[True Blue]

Trade Skjei for Nylander

Why would Toronto do that?

 

[bernmeister]

Gropp worked well with Barzal in the Juniors, doesn't mean it would ever happen in the NHL. Our draftee Bob Maudie centered Iginla in the Juniors, doesn't mean Calgary repeated that in the NHL after we refused to give him a contract.

You are correct sir.
However, I did not say it was etched in stone.
I just said it was factually true that there was a track record of them having some positive chemistry when they briefly played together.

Not saying they are the only match, or the best match.
Just that they were a match outside NHL, no reason to assume def not a match once in NHL.

 

[Fitzy]

Bolded is the truth. Some additional consideration included in the price was a risk that Fox's main priority was to play this season and so there was a risk of him changing his mind if the Rangers didn't get him and accept trade elsewhere.

37 is a nice pick, but based on what they've done with their 2nd rounders since 2008, it could be a lot worse.

Seems like now is a really bad time to get any sort of objective take on Fox's ceiling/floor, though.

 

[kovazub94]

To me there's a fairly strong likelihood that by 14 you've gone past a tier of players into another in which there are maybe 10-15 guys who could go anywhere between 12/13 and the end of the 1st round--so moving from 18 t0 14 isn't necessarily going to get you anywhere and you might as well stay where you are.

So to me there's two scenarios if you move Kreider for say the 14th--and in the first scenario you've already got a target team in mind who you've talked to to move up a few more spots with the 14 and something else.

The second scenario is draft day--watching to see if someone falls and using Kreider that way.

There's a third alternative and that's moving Kreider after the draft for a 2020 1st. That could backfire a bit depending on how his new team does but it also allows the Rangers--if they're in on Panarin for instance to see how that situation unfolds. And for a team that wants Kreider but also wants to make a splash in the 2019 draft that allows them to have their cake and eat it and pay for it later like they used a credit card. That would give us the potential for 3 1st's in the 2020 draft--if Zucc signed up with Dallas. There's also the potential that if we don't make the playoffs and Kreider's new team doesn't or Dallas falls off the cliff that we'd have multiple lottery chances.

To me the third alternative allows for the most flexibility. The Rangers have enough bullets besides Kreider for 2019 draft which is already a success as we get Kakko.

 

[True Blue]

Trouba is a guy that if he was on the FA market for free at 26 years old next year, and I had a glaring need at top pairing RD, and I could afford it, I'd throw a lot of money at.

But we aren't competing next year, really. And we don't know what the state of our RD will look like in a year. We have DeAngelo. We now have Fox. We have Pionk. We have Shattenkirk still. We have Lundkvist and others in the pipeline. We also have a ton of left side Ds.... Lindgren, Skjei, Miller, Rykov, Hajek, etc. Not all will pan out, but we like them all currently.

I'm just not in a rush to tie up 7 or 8 million for 6 years on Trouba when the guys we have coming up may be close to as good.

I get that our right side Ds are all "same-ish" in that they are smaller, puck moving types for whom actually defending isn't their specialty, but is it impossible that one of the LDs with size can't move to the right side? Is it impossible that it works if we have a right side of Fox-DeAngelo-Lundkvist with Miller-Hajek-Lindgren/Rykov on the left side?

Panarin is different, IMO.

I'll find space for a 90 point forward any day of the week. Not sure Trouba is quite that special.

Panarin has not yet scored 90 points. And by your own thesis, why would you not throw money at Trouba and throw money at Panarin? The Rangers are still not competing next year. In fact, it is more than likely they will not be ready to become true contenders for another 3-4 years. Why would you throw in a max dollars/max years contract, rife with NTC/NMC at a player who, but the time the Rangers are ready to truly compete, will in all likelihood not be the same player he was when they were not?

 

[bernmeister]

Trouba is a guy that if he was on the FA market for free at 26 years old next year, and I had a glaring need at top pairing RD, and I could afford it, I'd throw a lot of money at.

But we aren't competing next year, really. And we don't know what the state of our RD will look like in a year. We have DeAngelo. We now have Fox. We have Pionk. We have Shattenkirk still. We have Lundkvist and others in the pipeline. We also have a ton of left side Ds.... Lindgren, Skjei, Miller, Rykov, Hajek, etc. Not all will pan out, but we like them all currently.

I'm just not in a rush to tie up 7 or 8 million for 6 years on Trouba when the guys we have coming up may be close to as good.

I get that our right side Ds are all "same-ish" in that they are smaller, puck moving types for whom actually defending isn't their specialty, but is it impossible that one of the LDs with size can't move to the right side? Is it impossible that it works if we have a right side of Fox-DeAngelo-Lundkvist with Miller-Hajek-Lindgren/Rykov on the left side?

Panarin is different, IMO.

I'll find space for a 90 point forward any day of the week. Not sure Trouba is quite that special.

The major factor with Trouba is we can't bank on him agreeing to and living up to a long term contract, so any price for assets for him is wasted.

We think he wants FL, either Panthers or Bolts. Possible DET.
Not addressing other concerns raised, stay away.

 

[Beacon]

I don't get the Trouba fixation.

Instant gratification.

 

[bernmeister]

We lost out on Parayko by not taking a chance.
Blues were hard up for a top C, then decided a different route.

We need to consider emerging RD Rasmus Andersson/+ in a package from CAL

Get ahead of the curve.

On a smaller level, see if we can get McKeown from CAR.

 

[Fugazy]

Why would Toronto do that?

Potential cap restrictions, I would guess. Rangers would probably have to add more anyway.

 

[Kovalev27]

I think rykov with his ability can play the right side

im not high on lindgren. especially with the way our D is built. we are going to need size on the left side. he's ok but no one im going to go nuts over us not finding a spot for anytime soon. as a depth call up he can be valuable for sure. or in a trade.

what we need to do is end the pionk experiment. send the jerseys from the MSG team store (no idea why they have them) to Goodwill and call it a day. I don't care what we get for him. I just want him out of the org. he's clogging a roster spot.