Confirmed with Link: Adam Fox for 2019 2nd (NYR), 2020 3rd (cond.)

[pld459666]

Would like to see a highlight of this defender actually playing defence.

Anyone have something like that??

 

[hi]

2013 boo nieves
2014 brandon halverson
2015 ryan gropp
2018 olaf lindbom

woof.

The Gordie Clark hat-trick

2 goalies - 1 ass for the ECHL - and a 1C

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Some interesting trade possibilities now.

Trading Shattenkirk@50% retention?

Packaging Kreider+Pionk+Winnipeg 1st for Trouba?

Sign Panarin to replace Kreider?

This would be absolutely horrendous.

 

[nyr2k2]

The only hope I have for Pionk is that a lot of his mistakes, he's running around because it looks like he's panicking and playing out of control. If he could slow it down and play a more controlled game, he'd be a much better player. Generally the game slowing down comes through experience. Now, he has ample NHL experience, so if it doesn't happen this season you almost kind of have to accept that it never will. But, there still may be some hope.

 

[Ola]

I wouldn't be against drafting Moritz depending on who is left on the board but that's not what I'm saying because Moritz is not going to be playing for our team next year and maybe the year after that. We need someone on our right side who can actually defend pretty well and has a little more size than the likes of Shattenkirk, Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox. Which one of these guys are going to get the defensive assignments and shut down role?--because none of them are up to those kinds of tasks.....and Moritz isn't ready for it either.

In any case now that Fox has come on board I would be trying to move Shattenkirk and maybe Pionk or maybe both.

Yeah for sure, and the issue is not going away.

You need to put someone on the ice for some really tough minutes. Minutes that Skjei have been unable to handle over on the other side of the ice. These minutes are really hard, the other team knows you front the defense and finish the hits on you, you get thrown on the ice whenever the opposite coach puts his 1st on — no matter if you just finished a PK shift or whatever. You are the human shield during those long 2nd period shifts. The risk is that you play a guy in that role and he eventually is destroyed on the ice and starts to get worse and worse each shift. There is a big risk for that happening and it’s not good at all for a players development.

There were some chatter last season that TDA could handle those minutes well, but when you looked at the underlying data he often did great in the shifts he wasn’t on the ice against the top guys and also struggled in that role, at least against the absolute best lines.

Pionk was unphazed by those shifts and stepped up to the plate. But it’s far from an optimal role for him. And eventually the insane usage he got eventually got to him.

What is the plan with Shatty? If Gorts ever wants to be able to trade him, he — must — get all PP time. Away from the PP he is a 15-20 pts D that isn’t good anywhere, albeit not horrible either.

Brooks reports that Gorton was trying to move Shatty at 50%, but teams would only bite if we took back had a bad contract in addition. How bad was that contract? Belesky type? I don’t like the sound of this at at all, did Gorton actually have bonafide offers for Shatty and turn them down to save nickle and dimes? There is zero room for Shatty on the roster. None.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

2nd round picks have an under 50% chance of making the NHL. I don't really mind trading one for what appears to be already on the cusp of being NHL-ready.

As for the conditional, I've found it best not to judge until the condition is met or failed. So I'll just leave it at that. For now, I'm pretty pleased and for anyone arguing 'we would have got him in a year for free' I have two things to say to that:

1. There's absolutely no guarantee that would be the case
2. An extra year of development under our control is likely beneficial, especially if he gets NHL games next year.

 

[nyr2k2]

Saarela has been very productive in the AHL, not just Liiga. He's an okay skater with an awesome shot. His problem his not dissimilar from someone like Jimmy Vesey, in that if he's not contributing offense he's totally worthless. He may yet find a role in the NHL.

 

[LORDE]

I wouldn't be against drafting Moritz depending on who is left on the board but that's not what I'm saying because Moritz is not going to be playing for our team next year and maybe the year after that. We need someone on our right side who can actually defend pretty well and has a little more size than the likes of Shattenkirk, Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox. Which one of these guys are going to get the defensive assignments and shut down role?--because none of them are up to those kinds of tasks.....and Moritz isn't ready for it either.

In any case now that Fox has come on board I would be trying to move Shattenkirk and maybe Pionk or maybe both.

This is why we still have a defense problem. No one is saying this was a bad move but we still don’t have a defender. We have some good maybe eventually great rovers but we will need 2 DEFENDERS.

Not to say Girardi or Staal in their day but someone who’ll stop chances and get pucks back by winning corner battles.

 

[Ola]

Would like to see a highlight of this defender actually playing defence.

Anyone have something like that??

 

[nyr2k2]

This is why we still have a defense problem. No one is saying this was a bad move but we still don’t have a defender. We have some good maybe eventually great rovers but we will need 2 DEFENDERS.

Not to say Girardi or Staal in their day but someone who’ll stop chances and get pucks back by winning corner battles.

I'm still adamant that Lindgren will be one of those guys.

 

[Ola]

 

[Leetch3]

I really don’t see it with Trouba. We’d regret trading a big package for him imo. He’s good but not the level many seem to think, and he’s very unreliable

it doesn't need to be him but he is the type of guy that we need...our RHD prospects are mostly small, puck moving offense dmen...so a bigger guy that can be matched against the other teams top line I think would be the perfect compliment to the guys we have and really round out the blueline. and he's the right age too for our timeline... trouba is always brought up as the example but its more about wanting a guy like him than it needing to be him specifically...

 

[mas0764]

2 picks - a 2nd and 3rd or another 2nd for adam fox ?

and people are whining ??

you want something ?? you either go get it or hope you get it.

fyi, heres some names that we used 2nds on..... and trust me the 3rds are worse....

2013 boo nieves
2014 brandon halverson
2015 ryan gropp
2018 olaf lindbom

woof.

The more concerning thing about giving up #37 overall isn't the player we would get at #37 overall; it's the value that pick has for moving up from say, 19, to maybe 15 to get a guy like a falling Newhook. Now we don't have that ammo anymore.

My take would be: It's a fair deal. I would have liked to give up a little less (maybe Tampa's second instead and a straight third next year), given Fox's signaling that he really wants to play in NY, but I'm not really gonna complain. It's fair.

 

[pld459666]

And you seem awfully gullible to believe that the Rangers were the only team to make an serious offer in the whole month (or 29 days) it’s been since Dundon said they’ll trade him. I wish you all the best with that.

I think acknowledging the fact that other teams put in some serious offers and the deal was still done with the Rangers actually supports the notion that is was NYR or UFA for Fox.

I would think that the closer teams got to a satisfactory deal, Canes would allow teams to discuss the possibility of signing the player.

If his reply was another year at Harvard, then I think I those teams politely bowed out.

No doubt other teams were in on this young free asset. But if the likelyhood of not signing the player once acquired, it would have been a significant blunder

 

[mas0764]

brooks dream of trouba-ADA-fox on the right side is fantasy land

I don't get the Trouba fixation. I mean, he's good, but he effectively blocks a nice pipeline of other RD prospects. I don't know we need him, unless we trade Skjei for him. Trouba just isn't a 100% lock as a top pair defender, I don't think.

I'd rather Panarin if we're spending money. Let the defense grow from the farm.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

OK what's the obsession with "putting all your eggs in one basket?" Having RH shots are great. Having all your skill and worst defenders on one side is not a good idea... "oh, what about K'Andre...?'' We'll see... in 3 years.

I guess we can get used to seeing Fast get 18-20 minutes again.

As for the trade, depending on the condition for the 3rd, not bad.

 

[Tawnos]

I think acknowledging the fact that other teams put in some serious offers and the deal was still done with the Rangers actually supports the notion that is was NYR or UFA for Fox.

I would think that the closer teams got to a satisfactory deal, Canes would allow teams to discuss the possibility of signing the player.

If his reply was another year at Harvard, then I think I those teams politely bowed out.

No doubt other teams were in on this young free asset. But if the likelyhood of not signing the player once acquired, it would have been a significant blunder

I'm not so sure they allowed teams to talk to him first. The only reason I say that is because Gorton said yesterday that they're "working on" a contract. Usually, if they were allowed to talk to the player, the trade announcement would come with a contract announcement (think Mark Stone at the deadline). Unless the Rangers wanted to announce a bunch of stuff today, which is possible.

I can see what you're saying here, though. Still, the conversation was where Carolina got the leverage from to extract that price from the Rangers. Whether it was the case that teams knew after making satisfactory offers to the point of teams talking to Fox or teams never knew, it's fundamentally the same thing in that regard.

 

[Uncle Dru]

I think Fox was ready to make the jump this year. He scored at a rate of +.5 P/GP higher than any of his teammates. Don't think he could have developed his game much further at the NCAA level. Good on the Rangers to get this done. We have an a**load of picks anyway.

 

[Beacon]

Nothing indicates he will be better. He's a good #5 guy but he is basically Dan Girardi back there

Being a 23 year old and a rookie indicates that. This is the flip side of my argument to stop expecting our draftees to be in their prime before they can legally buy beer. A kid in his early 20s still has growing to do. We need to keep this in mind when we talk project recent draftees into our lineups within 1-2 years, but likewise we need to keep this in mind when we talk as about 22-23 year who are still developing.

Also, a solid 5D who is right handed is very valuable. RDs are the hardest position to acquire and defensemen in general log more minutes than forwards (there are half as many of them). Someone who can log 15-17 quality minutes per game is very useful. If Pionk can get rid of his rookie defensive issues, there's value to him.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think you are confusing overpaying with not underpaying as much as we hoped. we hoped to steal him but we still got him for way less than he is worth. if he was signed, he wouldn't have been available and certainly wouldn't be available at this price. we still got him for less than he is worth

if he turns out to be a bust like Erixon then we have overpaid. But in either case I am not confusing anything these are similar trades.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Pionk's issues are not your common rookie defensive issues.

The game is just simply too fast for him to process and he lacks the raw tools to get by. He showed zero improvement as the season went on, thats the biggest red flag for me.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Well Erixon wasn’t going to be a free agent. He was going back into the draft.

There’s really no way of knowing he’d sign here 15 months from now. That’s a long time in the life of a college kid. If you had asked Jimmy Vesey where he’d end up in April of 2015, he probably would have told you Boston. The price is worth it.

With the benefit of hindsight, if we had needed to trade this same thing for Vesey who here would do it? Would anyone? I agree and disagree with what you're saying at the same time. As nice as it is to think we needed to do this to get a top prospect, we don't know that he'll be a player that's worth the billing or if he's just another Vesey. So you can argue against this trade just as easily as you can argue for it.

I think it's good to take that risk once in awhile, especially if you truly believe in the prospect. But you just better be right...or if you mess it up and get it wrong you better not do it too often

Prospects are slightly better developed lottery picks, same as draft picks are. Many D+1, D+2 prospects seem great only to become bottom pair/bottom6 guys....or they flame out altogether

 

[mas0764]

To me there's a fairly strong likelihood that by 14 you've gone past a tier of players into another in which there are maybe 10-15 guys who could go anywhere between 12/13 and the end of the 1st round--so moving from 18 t0 14 isn't necessarily going to get you anywhere and you might as well stay where you are.

So to me there's two scenarios if you move Kreider for say the 14th--and in the first scenario you've already got a target team in mind who you've talked to to move up a few more spots with the 14 and something else.

The second scenario is draft day--watching to see if someone falls and using Kreider that way.

There's a third alternative and that's moving Kreider after the draft for a 2020 1st. That could backfire a bit depending on how his new team does but it also allows the Rangers--if they're in on Panarin for instance to see how that situation unfolds. And for a team that wants Kreider but also wants to make a splash in the 2019 draft that allows them to have their cake and eat it and pay for it later like they used a credit card. That would give us the potential for 3 1st's in the 2020 draft--if Zucc signed up with Dallas. There's also the potential that if we don't make the playoffs and Kreider's new team doesn't or Dallas falls off the cliff that we'd have multiple lottery chances.

As much as I'd like to have additional bites at the lottery apple in 2020, if a guy like Zegras is there into the teens, I don't think I could resist, if I can get up. Top line center would be the final touches on a long term group of dominant Rangers forwards. Zibanejad/Zegras/Kakko/Kravtsov/Chytil/Buchnevic/Andersson/Howden. Yikes.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Seems pretty clear Uncle Larry is ready for the rebuild to be over

Buying out Smith I could understand, but Shattenkirk I can’t see the reasoning

And why would they buy anyone out, just hang onto them for another season. They don’t need the cap space or roster spots right now

Newspapers are a business and LArry is a businessman. He knows he's catering easily to his readership by riling them up. It's lazy writing and opinion making meant to easily keep your readers "entertained." Or he's stupid when it comes to managing the cap...or it's both

 

[NYRangers0723]

I don't get the Trouba fixation. I mean, he's good, but he effectively blocks a nice pipeline of other RD prospects. I don't know we need him, unless we trade Skjei for him. Trouba just isn't a 100% lock as a top pair defender, I don't think.

I'd rather Panarin if we're spending money. Let the defense grow from the farm.

Agreed never got the love affair people have with him. Talented but is a pain in the ass and not worth the package many are willing to give