A guarantee: Dubas will get us a pp d-man at deadline

[rocketman588]

We need either a defensive D man or a top 6 LW guy more then a PP dman imo

We have like 4/5 guys that can fill that role and it's why we're paying Morgan

 

[Stephen]

You never want to depend on one thing, pretty basic stuff.

When we don’t have specific tools on the Leafs, we seem to a lot of debates about how those tools are outdated and unnecessary.

 

[ACC1224]

When we don’t have specific tools on the Leafs, we seem to a lot of debates about how those tools are outdated and unnecessary.

There does tend to be a slant towards what the GM has provided always being the correct approach.

 

[Mess]

When we don’t have specific tools on the Leafs, we seem to a lot of debates about how those tools are outdated and unnecessary.

Correct when other teams have a PP QB dman blasting away at 100 mph, that is not needed because we can play 5 forwards on the PP and then give up SH goals against instead, like yesterday.

Our Leafs always seem to already have the PERFECT player personnel for all occasions.

Playing 5 forwards on the PP is not some magical new idea, its because the Leafs don't have a Dman that can provide the missing ingredient for the defense core.

 

[Stephen]

Correct when other teams have a PP QB dman blasting away at 100 mph, that is not needed because we can play 5 forwards on the PP and then give up SH goals against instead, like yesterday.

Our Leafs always seem to already have the PERFECT player personnel for all occasions.

Playing 5 forwards on the PP is not some magical new idea, its because the Leafs don't have a Dman that can provide the missing ingredient for the defense core.

The 5 forward PP is frustrating and lazy because it assumes the 2 forwards manning the point can be more productive than a defenseman, but it doesn’t solve for the distance issue the system has seemingly written off a traditional D point man who can facilitate and launch bombs.

So you’re basically getting less value out of the F’s on point who want to be in a higher danger area, losing the dynamism of a Dman who can walk the line and QB, cover the defensive side. And you’ve taken fresh legs away from PP2.

 

[34]

The Leafs don’t need a D man as bad as they need a goalie who can stop the puck.

 

[robertmac43]

Is D even the biggest need? Feel like a LW with a bit of scoring to his game would be more beneficial

I guess if Mo doesn't find his game again, than yes, a D man would be nice to have.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Leafs need to build from the backend like a real team

 

[Mess]

The 5 forward PP is frustrating and lazy because it assumes the 2 forwards manning the point can be more productive than a defenseman, but it doesn’t solve for the distance issue the system has seemingly written off a traditional D point man who can facilitate and launch bombs.

So you’re basically getting less value out of the F’s on point who want to be in a higher danger area, losing the dynamism of a Dman who can walk the line and QB, cover the defensive side. And you’ve taken fresh legs away from PP2.

Agreed further complicated because Marner is often one of the PP QB players on the point and while he is great at puck distributing there is no fear of him letting those missing bombs coming from the point.

Morgan Rielly providing a very similar service as Mitch with moving pucks around the perimeter but not being able to use down low advantages while screen the goal on point shots and generating rebounds in the blue paint.

So by using 5 forwards because you're missing that big point blast potential the 5th forward (now Bunting) that forward is in essence suppose to be better at the point on the PP than any other Leafs Dman. You really don't want Matthews or Tavares at the point taking long range shots and so that leaves Nylander as the only suitable player taking long range shots of the PP from the point.

Of course the risk of a SH goal against becomes greater with Zero Dmen on the ice, asking forwards to suddenly play a different position defensively when defending.

 

[Menzinger]

That can’t be true

There's a bit of exaggeration/over simplification going on in the thread about it

The wider argument against the point shot system is simply that there's much less consistency with having a system that is based around picking up garbage goal rebounds after a heavy point shot. Which I think is probably true. It relies too much on the luck of right bounce right time.

 

[Stephen]

There's a bit of exaggeration/over simplification going on in the thread about it

The wider argument against the point shot system is simply that there's much less consistency with having a system that is based around picking up garbage goal rebounds after a heavy point shot. Which I think is probably true. It relies too much on the luck of right bounce right time.

Disagree. A PP that utilizes the classic playmaker with a point shot threat and a classic one timer from the circle just creates two separate predictable locations where a shot can come from.

This forces the PK coverage into a rotation that's trying to account for those threats, which opens up seams and other cross ice possibilities. Depending on your 'spacing' to borrow a basketball phrase, you can draw apart the PK formation.

Then you have a net front garbage man and maybe a bumper option or a goal line facilitator, up to the attacking team to choose what to do: cross ice plays, back door plays along the goal line, the "Ovechkin option" or the "Carlson option."

TLDR, the point is this isn't a system issue. It's a personnel issue in that the Leafs don't have these point shots guys who can also walk the line and QB dynamically. The Justin Bourne piece shows Carolina and Colorado (last year) using those point shots more, and they have no philosophical issue and they were both more successful than Toronto.

 

[PromisedLand]

leafs have been the only team in the entire league without a point shot on PP for a while; what makes people think this will change

 

[Stephen]

Agreed further complicated because Marner is often one of the PP QB players on the point and while he is great at puck distributing there is no fear of him letting those missing bombs coming from the point.

Morgan Rielly providing a very similar service as Mitch with moving pucks around the perimeter but not being able to use down low advantages while screen the goal on point shots and generating rebounds in the blue paint.

So by using 5 forwards because you're missing that big point blast potential the 5th forward (now Bunting) that forward is in essence suppose to be better at the point on the PP than any other Leafs Dman. You really don't want Matthews or Tavares at the point taking long range shots and so that leaves Nylander as the only suitable player taking long range shots of the PP from the point.

Of course the risk of a SH goal against becomes greater with Zero Dmen on the ice, asking forwards to suddenly play a different position defensively when defending.

One great piece of insight on Marner I heard this year which put a lot of things into perspective:

Marner's creativity works best when there's a lot of traffic and he pick out the little area play in all the chaos. When he's in open space, either 3 on 3, or running the PP and has that open ice as his canvas, he gets lost a bit or a little too fussy. He doesn't quite control the sidewall the same way as Kucherov or Kane. It's different.

It doesn't mean he can't QB, and QB well, but he's obviously not going to be able to seamlessly give you a Quinn Hughes type of work on the blueline.

 

[rocketman588]

The power play needs a pavelski type net front tip king more then the d man I think.

We also lack structure on half of our power plays or so

Last night there was one occasion where Morgan was behind the red line in a non threatening spot in the corner with two FWs were at the points. We look disheveled a lot

 

[LeafsNation75]

Disagree. A PP that utilizes the classic playmaker with a point shot threat and a classic one timer from the circle just creates two separate predictable locations where a shot can come from.

This forces the PK coverage into a rotation that's trying to account for those threats, which opens up seams and other cross ice possibilities. Depending on your 'spacing' to borrow a basketball phrase, you can draw apart the PK formation.

Then you have a net front garbage man and maybe a bumper option or a goal line facilitator, up to the attacking team to choose what to do: cross ice plays, back door plays along the goal line, the "Ovechkin option" or the "Carlson option."

TLDR, the point is this isn't a system issue. It's a personnel issue in that the Leafs don't have these point shots guys who can also walk the line and QB dynamically. The Justin Bourne piece shows Carolina and Colorado (last year) using those point shots more, and they have no philosophical issue and they were both more successful than Toronto.

Last season the Leafs power play was ranked #1 overall at 27.3% and that was without a classic playmaker who was a point shot threat or having a classic one timer.

As of right now they are currently ranked #8 on the power play at 24.8%.

 

[capfit9]

So Tyson Barrie

 

[Stephen]

Last season the Leafs power play was ranked #1 overall at 27.3% and that was without a classic playmaker who was a point shot threat or having a classic one timer.

As of right now they are currently ranked #8 on the power play at 24.8%.

No, I'm saying there's nothing wrong with a point shot threat as a standardPP strategy, contrary to the Leafs lack of personnel and aversion to shooting from distance as a go to.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Hoping we can make a push for Provorov.

 

[Nhlpowerweek]

Hoping we can make a push for Provorov.

He would totally kill in Toronto. Totally. The man plays the gezame. But you already know what the reason will be they dont go after him: rainbows.

 

[ACC1224]

Hoping we can make a push for Provorov.

Yikes. I wouldn’t hold your breath on that happening.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Disagree. A PP that utilizes the classic playmaker with a point shot threat and a classic one timer from the circle just creates two separate predictable locations where a shot can come from. This forces the PK coverage into a rotation that's trying to account for those threats, which opens up seams and other cross ice possibilities.

You seem to think shots and threat can only come from somebody with a booming slap shot, when that's not true at all.
A quick snap shot or wrist shot from the point, or shooting for the tip or a slap pass, is just as if not more dangerous and needs to be defended all the same.
A booming slap shot from the point doesn't add an additional threat. It just changes one of the threats. You have more power from that location, but you also have less accuracy, a greater chance of being blocked (meaning greater chance for goals against), a greater chance of injuring your own team, and a greater chance of giving up possession.
We already have multiple power shots on our unit, in much better locations than the point. We don't need more.

The Justin Bourne piece shows Carolina and Colorado (last year) using those point shots more, and they have no philosophical issue and they were both more successful than Toronto.

First off, our PP was better than either last year, at #1 in the league.
Our top unit was also one of the best units in the league, and better than both.
The best unit in the league last year was the NYR's #1 unit. Their defenseman had 0 PP goals.
Carolina and Colorado may use shots from the point a bit more (I don't know what you're referring to, but let's go with it) but that doesn't mean booming slappers.
Deangelo had all of 2 goals on the PP, and 80% of his overall goals were off snap or wrist shots.
Makar may have scored a lot, but that wasn't because of booming slappers. Only 13% of Makar's shots on the season were slapshots, and only 3 of Makar's 28 overall goals were slapshots.

Maybe, just maybe, you don't know more about what works than the professionals with all of the information, just because you're nostalgic for decades past when PPs were less efficient.
Just because we don't do something a certain way, that doesn't automatically make it a problem.

 

[ACC1224]

No, I'm saying there's nothing wrong with a point shot threat as a standardPP strategy, contrary to the Leafs lack of personnel and aversion to shooting from distance as a go to.

It really is amazing that this keeps getting argued. In what bizzarro world is less options better than more options?
A big shot doesn't mean that is the only thing the PP will use. That player ideally will still be able to pass the puck, get a quick shot through to the net AND have a big one timer that can be used when the situation presents itself.
Is that a player they need to go and obtain? I don't think anyone believes they should.

 

[ToneDog]

Last season the Leafs power play was ranked #1 overall at 27.3% and that was without a classic playmaker who was a point shot threat or having a classic one timer.

As of right now they are currently ranked #8 on the power play at 24.8%.

Small sample size (<= 7 games per year), but how is our PP in the playoffs ?? As @ACC1224 says, what's wrong with having another option ?? Clearly the Leafs do not believe Rielly is the answer and if our 5 forward PP gives up a shorty or two and we exit in round #1, the media and fanbase will eat them alive.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Correct when other teams have a PP QB dman blasting away at 100 mph, that is not needed because we can play 5 forwards on the PP and then give up SH goals against instead, like yesterday.

Our Leafs always seem to already have the PERFECT player personnel for all occasions.

Playing 5 forwards on the PP is not some magical new idea, its because the Leafs don't have a Dman that can provide the missing ingredient for the defense core.

I really don't know where I stand on Keefe using 5 forwards on the PP. When they give up short handed goals there's nothing more embarrassing. At least a defenseman can look over his shoulder or can attempt to stop a 2 on1 when there's a turnover. Honestly though if Rielly is not at 100%, and Gio's ice time is tempered due to his age, then isn't it time to put Sandin there? Why do we have him? He's supposed to be the future.

 

[Fogelhund]

The game has transitioned away from the booming point slap shot for a number of reasons. This article (below) talks about it some, and the reasoning why.



In addition, the Slap Shot isn't as accurate as a snap shot is, and on a power play, if you miss, there's a good chance that the puck either exits the zone, or the other tame takes possession, and shoots it out of the zone. Maintaining possession, and the other items mentioned in the article, are making that point slap shot a declining asset, moving towards dinosaur status. It's just one of those changes in the game.

Why the slapshot is becoming a lost art in today’s fast-paced NHL​