Post-Game Talk: #6 - 01/26/21 | RANGERS @ sabres

[duhmetreE]

David Quinn may be good at developing young hockey players but he's a bad NHL coach. There's a massive difference

 

[Joe Ranger Fan 1960]

We bought this guy out over the summer.

Lundqvist was not only an all time great on the ice but all we’ve ever heard of him off the ice is how hard he works, how much he competes, how seriously he takes his preparation.

Remember over the summer we had some posters on here talking about rumors of Tony D apparently saying everyone didn’t like Lundqvist or something like that? Yeah.

So you replace the hardest worker in the league who expects greatness and will do everything he can do achieve it with a room full of kids that apparently features some guys who would snicker at someone who thinks like that. Talk about immature.

I agree with this train of thought, although I pushed hard amid my peers and fellow lunatic fans to get Hank out. Great goalie, great leader, time to move on. Sorry Hank. As a fan, I was here decades before him and, God willing, I'll be here decades after him. Time to move on. A cup was just not in his future. On one hand, I was vindicated; he can't play in the NHL anymore. Fate stepped in. On the other had, I had no idea his departure would create such a leadership vacuum. Yikes. Are these guys really as immature as Tony D is purported to be? It looks that way thus far.

Somebody/Anybody with a sweater please step forward and hold this team accountable to work hard for sixty minutes.

 

[Ruggs225]

Oh, so accountability is selective when a coach you do not like is doing it, but completely normative when you decide how it should done.

Accountability is always selective. Always has been always will be. However how he is handling it is a joke. How would u handle it. At least mine i would have given all the vets something.

and i dont hate quinn, but this year his choices have been horrendous. I actually defended him up until this year. His usage with many players is highly inneffective so far.

 

[duhmetreE]

We definitely do watch different games then because even if Smith has played better - it's been by a miniscule margin, unless there's a prism of bias when assessing them.

Results say otherwise. As in the team plays better with him and the analytics back it up.

It can be a coincidence but as it's been beaten to death... There's no reason for JJ to be in over Smith. There's no reason for JJ to be on this team. There's no reason for a lot of what this coaching staff does... that's seems to be a big part of the problem

 

[Ruggs225]

Agree with this as well. Unfortunately, until Chytil is back and healthy, Quinn has no choice but to stay with Strome.

Then bench kreider who is horrible. Its an easy choice. The man has been completely invisible and looks like he isnt even trying.

plus he is a wing. Which we can easily replace.

 

[Ruggs225]

Like I said, the vets have been terrible. But even with all that, if the goalies simply played mediocre, the team would be 4-2.

You are right about goaltending but 3 of the top 4 teams in our division give up more goals per game.

our goal scoring or lack there of is actually just as big an issue and that needs to be addressed pronto. Only the isles and devils score less than us and they both let up less too. But they both still are not good teams.

basically its not just the goaltwnding that needs to improve its the entire team. We cant score and we have middling goaltending.

 

[kovazub94]

I would be on board with benching Trouba for a game.

That said, I'm a bit worried that he isn't the 25 minute a game #1 defenseman we hoped he would be.

There aren't many good NHL teams that don't have one 'all situations' blueliner, who plays both the PP and PK and gets the hardest matchups. The reality is that Fox is closer to that rn than Trouba

That's the frustrating part. Trouba absolutely should be able to be this defenseman. But the way he fans on a puck (or make bonehead decisions) in the most inopportune moments points out to a luck of concentration rather than anything else because there are game he looks like a legitimate 25min first pair D.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Maybe not the C on someone’s chest but there does seem to be something missing. Maybe someone not being named captain is holding their leadership back or how the group feels about their leaders in general? What is beyond doubt is that there is clearly a failure of the veteran leadership group going on.

It doesn’t surprise me honestly, look at the 4 captains:

Kreider - introspective type. Works super hard off the ice but often struggles with consistency so he can get in his own head

Zibanejad - extremely quiet type who would lead by example

Panarin- great player but also seems like a lead by example only type

Trouba- has struggled virtually his whole time in NY, gotta be hard to be a leader when you’re out there sucking half the time


Aside from it being your two best forwards, your longest tenured player and your highest paid D (yuck) which seems like on paper should be your leaders it just seems like when you look at who these guys actually are that something is missing leadership wise.

I don’t see a guy on this team right now who despises losing and fully expects greatness every night.

And that comes from Quinn too. Lots of downplaying failure and making excuses. That infects the minds of his players. He said last night that after Buffalo tied the game the group was really dejected. Wtf is that? To be tied 2-2 halfway through the game?

If someone not being named captain is really that big of a detriment to their mental fortitude then we got HUGE problems and slapping a C on someone's chest isn't going to fix that. The problem starts at the snake's head and that's the coach. It's his job to get his players going, to coach them how to win.

 

[True Blue]

Accountability is always selective. Always has been always will be. However how he is handling it is a joke. How would u handle it. At least mine i would have given all the vets something.

and i dont hate quinn, but this year his choices have been horrendous. I actually defended him up until this year. His usage with many players is highly inneffective so far.

What choices are you talking about? Aside from JJ, what else is so awful? Benching DeAngelo? That is on the player and not the coach. He deserved it. And if accountability is selective, then you cannot quibble with how he has handled DeAngelo at all.

What else is there? What is the complaint about usage?

Then bench kreider who is horrible. Its an easy choice. The man has been completely invisible and looks like he isnt even trying.

plus he is a wing. Which we can easily replace.

Who "easily" replaces Kreider? Who "easily" takes his place?

And how can you bench Kreider and not ZBad?

You are right about goaltending but 3 of the top 4 teams in our division give up more goals per game.

Who cares? Giving up easily stoppable goals is giving up easily stoppable goals. And have the top 5 out of 6 forwards showed up on those teams?

our goal scoring or lack there of is actually just as big an issue and that needs to be addressed pronto. Only the isles and devils score less than us and they both let up less too. But they both still are not good teams.

The lack of scoring will be addressed directly when Panarin, ZBad, Strome and Kreider get their heads out of their collective tukhuses. Other than that, I am not sure of what you are hoping for.

basically its not just the goaltwnding that needs to improve its the entire team. We cant score and we have middling goaltending.

That is rather the point. They have NOT had middling goaltending. If they had, the team record would be 4-2 and everyone is singing Quinn's praises about how he has managed a team where the vets have not been around.

Middling? Borrowing from Dean Wormer here.....It Stinks! It's the worst on campus. It's the worst in Faber history!!

 

[aufheben]

I would say you’re probably only going to see flashes this season. I know that’s not the answer people want to hear, but it’s probably pretty accurate.

I think we’ve become so worried about players busting the last few years, that it’s really kind of steered the lens by which we view a lot of things.

As for Fox and Miller - yes they do have us a little spoiled. Though I would caution about keeping perspective if Miller comes back down to earth a little at some point.

But, here’s some food for thought: Fox is five years out from his draft, Miller is three. That’s a lot of time compared to Kakko and Laf.

More food for thought: Lafreniere hasn’t even played the equivalent of a full slate of NHL preseason games to this point.

These are noteworthy details worth considering.

I feel like the top 1-2 picks, sometimes 1-3, haven’t really blown the doors off during their rookie seasons since the 2016 draft with Matthews/Laine.

Honestly even going back to like 2009 I’m surprised by how infrequently it’s happened.

 

[Edge]

I feel like the top 1-2 picks, sometimes 1-3, haven’t really blown the doors off during their rookie seasons since the 2016 draft with Matthews/Laine.

Honestly even going back to like 2009 I’m surprised by how infrequently it’s happened.

I’d love to see Lafreniere cut a 50-60 point pace, and he might still end up scoring at that pace. But it’s not necessarily a given, especially with this season’s weirdness.

It’s also kind of hard to judge right now because we don’t have those veterans firing on all cylinders. So it’s hard to know how things look if Panarin and Zibanejad find their game.

 

[Tob]

Very telling that Larry is on a writing frenzy right now.

 

[Tob]

David Quinn may be good at developing young hockey players but he's a bad NHL coach. There's a massive difference

Hard to be of any use to any of the young players when he's barely able to keep his head above water in his capacity as a coach.

 

[will1066]

I’d love to see Lafreniere cut a 50-60 point pace, and he might still end up scoring at that pace. But it’s not necessarily a given, especially with this season’s weirdness.

It’s also kind of hard to judge right now because we don’t have those veterans firing on all cylinders. So it’s hard to know how things look if Panarin and Zibanejad find their game.

Highly doubtful. He's gone pointless in six games. Not even an assist so much as a goal. He'd need to start going at a PPG clip for the 50 remaining games.

 

[aufheben]

I’d love to see Lafreniere cut a 50-60 point pace, and he might still end up scoring at that pace. But it’s not necessarily a given, especially with this season’s weirdness.

It’s also kind of hard to judge right now because we don’t have those veterans firing on all cylinders. So it’s hard to know how things look if Panarin and Zibanejad find their game.

Honestly, 50-60 points over 82 seems like a world away, even though I’m aware that many #1OA picks have gone through worse periods than a 6-game scoring drought. It just seems like it’s not in this franchise’s genes to develop stat forwards.

He looked so good in game #2, and I don’t think he’s looked bad overall. I still consider this night and day compared to Kakko’s rookie season.

 

[aufheben]

Highly doubtful. He's gone pointless in six games. Not even an assist so much as a goal. He'd need to start going at a PPG clip for the 50 remaining games.

I mean it comes in bunches. Matthews scored 4 goals in his first NHL game then scored 0 goals and 2 assists in 11 games during November.

Di Giuseppe has 4 points but he’s on a 64-point pace.

 

[True Blue]

Are these 'leaders' put in position to succeed? You clearly believe they are. I do not. It ends there.

Tell me how Panarin, Kreider, ZBad & Strome have been hamstrung by Quinn and not put into position for success.

Yeah, a third of the games is not bad for the kids. Hopefully the shit doesn't stick to their skates. Being punished for something while our 'leaders' to the same thing and it goes un noticed should harbor positive feelings.

History tells you that this is not something that will affect them long term.

Speaking of leaders, so I am presuming your very strongly advocating for scratching Panarin here, right?

Yeah, Panarin should be playing much better with Strome and Blackwell. How can he not be producing? I dont know what's gotten into him. He should be scorching on our well oiled machine of a PP. Or how disciplined and systematic we are in our zone entries. He should have at least 12 pts.

In reality, re-watch when Panarin gets the puck... he literally has no where to go with it. He's smothered.

Panarin looks pretty much all alone when he routinely has been missing the net and not connecting with his passes.

We're seeing symptoms of the problem. The problem is coaching ( with a big chunk of embarrasingly bad personnel managemnt. )

What are these symptoms? Kreider and ZBad being invisible? Panarin playing like he is still on vacation? Strome reverting to Edmonton levels?

Aside from Johnson, what are you going to point to as far as personnel management that has had a material effect on outcomes of the games?

 

[KevinFinnerty]

Bro, David Quinn has to go.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Very telling that Larry is on a writing frenzy right now.

Does it bother anyone that these writers write whatever but when it comes to actually asking players and coaches questions face to face they don't have the guts to bring any of that up?

 

[Edge]

Highly doubtful. He's gone pointless in six games. Not even an assist so much as a goal. He'd need to start going at a PPG clip for the 50 remaining games.

Honestly, 50-60 points over 82 seems like a world away, even though I’m aware that many #1OA picks have gone through worse periods than a 6-game scoring drought. It just seems like it’s not in this franchise’s genes to develop stat forwards.

He looked so good in game #2, and I don’t think he’s looked bad overall. I still consider this night and day compared to Kakko’s rookie season.

Sorry, to clarify, I was referring to pace, not plateau. So roughly 34/35 points over a 56 game season.

 

[BKGooner]

Results say otherwise. As in the team plays better with him and the analytics back it up.

It can be a coincidence but as it's been beaten to death... There's no reason for JJ to be in over Smith. There's no reason for JJ to be on this team. There's no reason for a lot of what this coaching staff does... that's seems to be a big part of the problem

Just based on his skating alone Smith is killing JJ. The Smith Trouba pair is ok. The JJ Trouba pair is a bomb waiting to go off.

 

[duhmetreE]

Tell me how Panarin, Kreider, ZBad & Strome have been hamstrung by Quinn and not put into position for success.

History tells you that this is not something that will affect them long term.

Speaking of leaders, so I am presuming your very strongly advocating for scratching Panarin here, right?

Panarin looks pretty much all alone when he routinely has been missing the net and not connecting with his passes.

What are these symptoms? Kreider and ZBad being invisible? Panarin playing like he is still on vacation? Strome reverting to Edmonton levels?

Aside from Johnson, what are you going to point to as far as personnel management that has had a material effect on outcomes of the games?

These have been repeated relentlessly. If you think that the Vets are the problem, send a message, bench or put them on the 4th line. If they're not the issue, that's a good way to lose the team.

Strome is the outlier and he should not be on the 2nd line and PP1. End of story. Chytil, Howden, Rooney it doesn't matter. I do not care who replaces him because it is automatically a net positive over a floating blackhole. He should be stapled to the bottom6

Benching ADA and taking his PP1QB spot. Bad move.

I dont see Panarin being the issue. He's struggling with no help. He will not overcome being that short handed. You keep getting caught on individual names, I'm looking at the team, as a whole.

It's funny because you mention all of the symptoms then ask what the symptoms are...
-Bad fundamentals; passing, shooting
-Bad special teams
-Bad personnel management
-Bad system, no puck support, bad puckmovement, bad entries, bad forecheck
-Lack of urgency, lack of player engagement
-Emotional outbursts and/or on the other side of the spectrum; sulking
-Inconsistencies

I see a lot of signs of a poorly coached team... you equate it to vets being the issue.

 

[Doriva]

David Quinn may be good at developing young hockey players but he's a bad NHL coach. There's a massive difference

Sounds like a perfect assistant coach.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Bro, David Quinn has to go.

Dis guy is supposed to be a prospect whisperer, development “guru”? James Dolan was sold a bill of goods by Chris Drury. Brutal head coach, bro.

 

[JCProdigy]

Honestly, 50-60 points over 82 seems like a world away, even though I’m aware that many #1OA picks have gone through worse periods than a 6-game scoring drought. It just seems like it’s not in this franchise’s genes to develop stat forwards.

He looked so good in game #2, and I don’t think he’s looked bad overall. I still consider this night and day compared to Kakko’s rookie season.

First and foremost, I think it's continued to be established that very rarely can Rangers' fans have nice things. While I'm not really worried/concerned yet over Lafreniere, I am bummed that he hasn't shown more dynamism in his play. I just would like to see him make the kind of play like Miller's rush and backhand saucer pass. Points certainly aren't everything at this point so I'd like to see a little wow factor even if it doesn't necessarily result in anything. I just hope the lack of that is due to the whole messed up situation the COVID has caused.

It's way too early on many fronts with small sample size and all, and we're going to need at least most of this season to really judge the young guys. Still food for thought: If Lafreniere doesn't score 4 points in the next four games then he'd be off to the worst start in scoring stats of any #1 overall pick in the past 11 years and that would include two defensemen (Dahlen, Ekblad). If he doesn't get at least 3 points then he wouldn't cover 8 out the 10 previous #2 overall picks. ie: is it too much to ask for SOMETHING nice Hockey Gods?!?!