Post-Game Talk: #6 - 01/26/21 | RANGERS @ sabres

[TheBloodyNine]

I'm still not down on Quinn. He may end up being the scapegoat, but somebody needs to step up and show some leadership. Is this some type of lost art? Do the players collectively believe that it's not their job? Guys used to kill to wear the Rangers C. I've had the pleasure of meeting some of the Rangers former captains, as I'm sure many of you here on this forum have. They each said that it is one of the honors that they are most proud of in life. Somebody on this team needs to step up.

This is fairy tale stuff. No C on a players chest is going to change how badly the coach coaches them.

 

[RickChartraw]

Didn't go back to see if posted yet...

 

[True Blue]

Yes, lets fire half the team. Give Quinn a college team so we can compete. Workers get fired if it's isolated to an individual or two. That is not the case here.

Management, in this instance coaching, 100% gets the heat.

You are the one who brought up management getting fired over workers poor performance. I am just pointing out that it is a pretty silly comparison that makes absolutely no sense in this situation.

Coaching gets the heat for a top-5 player in the league appear to be mailing it in? Of for the promising goalies who cannot even play at a mediocre level even when the amount of high percentage shots is limited?

 

[SA16]

games arent won on spreadsheets. Right now we are in last place in the NHL.

thanks for the analysis.

 

[Daves a mess]

1-8 in the last 9 and don't think for a second that Gorts and JDs coolies aren't still a bit raw after that Pollyanna performance against the Candy Canes.

 

[Joe Ranger Fan 1960]

To be honest I just want them to iron this out in time for my next visit to the Garden. This is actually the perfect time in this team's development for them to look this bad. I can't disagree with many of the management decisions these past couple of years and yes, they've lucked into some nice picks. Now it's up to the players. Smith for JJ? Sure. Tony the Jersey Boy on the 1st PP? Fine. Nitpicking. If it's up to me I give Quinn this entire FUBAR year to get it straight. The goaltending better improve or I'll look like an idiot for pushing so hard to get Hank out last year. That aside, it's up to the Boys in Blue, not the guys wearing suits. If they want to succeed in New York the players had better understand that it's working to death that gets it done. I'm not seeing it.

 

[True Blue]

grab a coach who stops playing jj and we might win too.

JJ was a Martin choice. Do I want him in the line up? Of course not. But there is something to the head coach listening to his new assistant head coach and respecting his decision. That said, yeah, the time for JJ has come and gone.

And with that said, you can have a defense that is comprised of 6 Hedmans and with the play in goal as poor as it has been, no one is winning anything.

 

[Joe Ranger Fan 1960]

This is fairy tale stuff. No C on a players chest is going to change how badly the coach coaches them.

Winning the Stanley Cup is about as close as it gets to fairy tale stuff in this life.

 

[Daves a mess]

The team overachieved last year, despite having a fire dumpster of a defense most of the year. They continuously improved from the beginning to the end.

Panarin, ZBad & Kreider not playing to half their ability has nothing to do with Quinn.

Totally agree until the bubble. The suck started there and just kinda continued. Such a promising 3 months of upward steps until the shutdown. They played balls on chin ever since.

 

[Ruggs225]

thanks for the analysis.

thanks for the stats that dont help win games.

 

[duhmetreE]

You are the one who brought up management getting fired over workers poor performance. I am just pointing out that it is a pretty silly comparison that makes absolutely no sense in this situation.

Coaching gets the heat for a top-5 player in the league appear to be mailing it in? Of for the promising goalies who cannot even play at a mediocre level even when the amount of high percentage shots is limited?

It 100% makes sense. If you're in charge of a group, and nearly the entire group is under performing, who will get the fault? Are his higher ups going to replace the entire work force and keep the coach?

you keep isolating 1 player. its NOT 1 player. It's not isolated. Yesterdays 2nd period is not a 1 player issue.

We can talk about 'player development', but this is a unhealthy environment for players to develop in.

 

[Ruggs225]

JJ was a Martin choice. Do I want him in the line up? Of course not. But there is something to the head coach listening to his new assistant head coach and respecting his decision. That said, yeah, the time for JJ has come and gone.

And with that said, you can have a defense that is comprised of 6 Hedmans and with the play in goal as poor as it has been, no one is winning anything.

yes the goaltending has been subpar. But we alao got shutout once and last night only scored 2. Not going to win many games like that either.

Right now this team is not doing much right at all either offensively or defensively.

edit: and its our vets who are sucking the most. So quinn keeps feeding them more ice time.

 

[True Blue]

yes the goaltending has been subpar. But we alao got shutout once and last night only scored 2. Not going to win many games like that either.

It has been more than subpar. It has been outright poor. With all that, they still got outplayed only in the first and last game.

edit: and its our vets who are sucking the most. So quinn keeps feeding them more ice time.

Do you propose that Panarin finds himself scratched or demoted to be Rooney's wing?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Is there any chance we can trade a 3rd rounder for a competent 3rd pairing LD? I don't know if this is more for the roster building thread. But someone like Nick Holden was. For whatever reason Quinn doesn't trust Smith, can we trade for a boring but decent 3rd pairing LD?

 

[gravey9]

This is in no way advocating for JJ -- whom I cannot stand. But I believe this is the way the coaches are looking at it:

Go with JJ and you get a D who is usually in the right spot, but just can't do much other than that. Super tentative, super slow in his reads and with his stick. Tends to fumble the puck a lot.

Go with BS and you get a D who has decent size, wheels and can play physical but far too often has rocks between his ears. Just runs around way too much. Is often out of position.

As far as breakout passes I think Smith has a slight advantage. But not by leaps and bounds.

The real thing to do here is upgrade away from this paradigm. It shouldn't be JJ or BS. It should be someone else. Anyone else. Bitetto, Robertson, Hajek, a traffic cone, suiting up Jacques Martin. Literally anything else.

 

[Ruggs225]

It has been more than subpar. It has been outright poor. With all that, they still got outplayed only in the first and last game.

Do you propose that Panarin finds himself scratched or demoted to be Rooney's wing?

no but kreider should be... and zbad ahould have been given time off to heal. Before chytil got injured. Strome the sanme. But no quinn keeps force feeding minutes to them.

Trouba could have been benched too in the beginning.

 

[True Blue]

It 100% makes sense. If you're in charge of a group, and nearly the entire group is under performing, who will get the fault? Are his higher ups going to replace the entire work force and keep the coach?

What happens in a real life workplace and what happens with a professional sports team are two different things.

BTW, in real life, I have yet to see a business unit underperform but management get fired and not the workers.

you keep isolating 1 player. its NOT 1 player. It's not isolated. Yesterdays 2nd period is not a 1 player issue.

You are right. It is 5 of your top 6 forwards and BOTH of the goaltenders? Breed together Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman, bring Emile Francis back to life and NO ONE is winning like that. Sather's Oilers are not winning like that. Arbour's Islanders are not winning like that.

We can talk about 'player development', but this is a unhealthy environment for players to develop in.

Now he is creating an unhealthy environment for the young players? Maybe we can get Covid pinned on him while we are at it?

 

[The New Russian Five]

This is also why the Chytil injury couldn’t come at a worse time. Because now it (somewhat) forced into existence a situation where Quinn is going to almost have to roll Strome out there.

And you know what Strome is right now? A vortex. He literally sucks so hard that he pulls in other players. I damn near think he pulled that one shot by Lafreniere away from the net. That’s how unbelievably shitty he is.

But here’s the thing as well. The 19 and 21 year olds should not be the ones setting the tone and pulling the nose up. They aren’t there yet.

I expect that from the 27 year olds and the 29 year olds, and the 25/26 year olds.

IMO, those guys are a big reason why Kakko has two goals and not 3 or 4. I’ve literally watched Strome have a f***ing spasm while trying to get him the puck. It’s also why Laf doesn’t have a goal or a point at this stage.

I really don’t think it’s a development thing. Or a problem with these kids. I think the core veterans are like anchors right now in all the wrong ways.

The pass from Kreider to Kakko on the 2 on 1 also comes to mind. Like that needs to be tape-to-tape when you have that much time and space. Kakko would have buried that.

 

[True Blue]

no but kreider should be... and zbad ahould have been given time off to heal. Before chytil got injured. Strome the sanme. But no quinn keeps force feeding minutes to them.

Trouba could have been benched too in the beginning.

Who is taking Trouba's place?

Why is Panarin excused but Kreider and ZBad not? Why the double standard? Hmmm.......Panarin gets a free ride, but Krieder and ZBad should be scratched.

 

[Fitzy]

Who is taking Trouba's place?

Why is Panarin excused but Kreider and ZBad not? Why the double standard? Hmmm.......Panarin gets a free ride, but Krieder and ZBad should be scratched.

You can't scratch enough people who deserve it without activating the entire taxi squad

Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Trouba, ADA, Johnson, Kreider have all stunk.

 

[duhmetreE]

What happens in a real life workplace and what happens with a professional sports team are two different things.

BTW, in real life, I have yet to see a business unit underperform but management get fired and not the workers.

You are right. It is 5 of your top 6 forwards and BOTH of the goaltenders? Breed together Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman, bring Emile Francis back to life and NO ONE is winning like that. Sather's Oilers are not winning like that. Arbour's Islanders are not winning like that.

Now he is creating an unhealthy environment for the young players? Maybe we can get Covid pinned on him while we are at it?

Yes, if the entire work force is under performing, which rarely happens, the team leader/manager/coach gets the heat or replaced. In this case the talent is irreplaceable or a lot harder to replace. Quinn is not.

If game1 and last nights game is not a bad environment, I don't know what is. Thats not a good environment for the kids to learn in.

Yes, the entire team needs to be better but I do not understand how it's not the coachings staffs issue.

 

[kovazub94]

Watching Washington beat the isles missing most of their entire team. They’re undefeated

Quinn lost Fast over the summer and hasn’t recovered.

I know a lot of posters put all kind of different shit on Quinn and most of it is unfounded (IMO). My only gripe - and why I chose your post to respond - is not finding a good fit here. Specifically Gauthier looked good in whatever minimal minutes he spent there and I have absolutely no idea why he hasn't been given a larger look /see.

Pretty much all other roster issues are on players or not too consequential.

 

[kovazub94]

There are certainly some criticisms that are fair of Quinn and can be discussed. But I agree, this is not him. This is subpar goaltending and the veteran leadership group coasting.

Aside from the first game blow out, last night was really the first night I came away disappointed. If Shesterkin and Georgiev even bring their B game, this team is 4-2 right now. And that is without the vets performing at even a C level. Right now, Panarin is a C- and Krieder, ZBad & Strome are below that. With Strome brining up the rear with an F-.

I feel like Mr. Hand handing out grades after the test on the Platt Amendment.

ADA has played like shit too.

 

[dapowl]

Defensive zone starts? Interesting focus. My take:

1) Focusing on giving KK and LAF offensive zone starts is playing to their strengths. This helps them develop that aspect of their game without overwhelming them.

2) Playing to individual player's strengths is also the coaches job when they try to maximize talent - ie to WIN

The stars are sheltered? I think you have misused the term as commonly applied. Playing the youngsters in situations where they can thrive is sheltering them. The vets have already had many years learning defensive hockey in the NHL - a skill that is harder and takes more experience and time for younger players to get down.

Meybe not sheltered in this sense but i find it a bit hard to start kakko in the D zone 60% and only play im 13 min and expect big things. Alas there is no real cohesive scheme in quinns deployment after a FO. Maybe also due to small sample.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

It's the veteran leadership who needs to take control of the room, but who is that? Who is the guy the young kids look up to? Who is the guy who works his ass off all of the time to set the example?
Its clear that this team needs leadership. Who or where is that going to come from?

We bought this guy out over the summer.

Lundqvist was not only an all time great on the ice but all we’ve ever heard of him off the ice is how hard he works, how much he competes, how seriously he takes his preparation.

Remember over the summer we had some posters on here talking about rumors of Tony D apparently saying everyone didn’t like Lundqvist or something like that? Yeah.

So you replace the hardest worker in the league who expects greatness and will do everything he can do achieve it with a room full of kids that apparently features some guys who would snicker at someone who thinks like that. Talk about immature.