4th Overall the Senators Take Brady Tkachuk

[Solarion]

Prefer who you want, just stop making it seem like BT wasn't a legit 4OA pick with the same sky high potential.

Sorry, I can't do that. Even the guys that suggested he'd be a good fit in Montreal at 3rd overall said the same thing as nearly everyone else...he lacks elite scoring instincts. While there's a lot to like about Brady Tkachuk, his potential is not "sky high". He's limited by his lack of an elite shot and elite scoring instincts. For a center, that's acceptable, but for a winger...it just won't do.

...and please don't turn it into another "I don't like BT thing". I do like Brady, I just don't like Brady as a top 5 draft pick...6-10 perhaps, 11-15 and I'm grabbing him, but at #4...I pass and take a center, dman, or winger with an elite shot.

"Kimelman -- Brady Tkachuk, LW, Boston University (H-EAST): Tkachuk might not be a dominant scorer but his size (6-3, 191) and strength will make his linemates a few inches taller. And when he's not scoring, he'll help in other areas of the game."

"Lepage -- Tkachuk: He may not be the most talented forward available but he has a set of unique qualities the Canadiens should not pass on."

Dahlin, Svechnikov unanimous 1-2 in final 2018 mock draft

Lots to like for sure, just not top 5 material...imo.

 

[Cat Herder]

Sorry, I can't do that. Even the guys that suggested he'd be a good fit in Montreal at 3rd overall said the same thing as nearly everyone else...he lacks elite scoring instincts. While there's a lot to like about Brady Tkachuk, his potential is not "sky high". He's limited by his lack of an elite shot and elite scoring instincts. For a center, that's acceptable, but for a winger...it just won't do.

...and please don't turn it into another "I don't like BT thing". I do like Brady, I just don't like Brady as a top 5 draft pick...6-10 perhaps, 11-15 and I'm grabbing him, but at #4...I pass and take a center, dman, or winger with an elite shot.

"Kimelman -- Brady Tkachuk, LW, Boston University (H-EAST): Tkachuk might not be a dominant scorer but his size (6-3, 191) and strength will make his linemates a few inches taller. And when he's not scoring, he'll help in other areas of the game."

"Lepage -- Tkachuk: He may not be the most talented forward available but he has a set of unique qualities the Canadiens should not pass on."

Dahlin, Svechnikov unanimous 1-2 in final 2018 mock draft

Lots to like for sure, just not top 5 material...imo.

both the guys you quoted said that about Tkachuk in Montreal's pick spot #3 and the 3rd guy commenting had his Tkachuk comment in the Sens spot #4 .. so everyone of those scouts had him in their top 5 .. and 2 of the 3 had him ranked higher than Zadina

 

[JungleBeat]

Greenway was being played out of position, neither Bowers or Harper are anywhere close to the same as the guys his brother played with. He's not playing with scrubs, true, but the quality of linemates is a valid point.

I’m not comparing his numbers with Mathew. I’m just saying the notion that his pedestrian numbers are because of linemates is false.

 

[BondraTime]

both the guys you quoted said that about Tkachuk in Montreal's pick spot #3 and the 3rd guy commenting had his Tkachuk comment in the Sens spot #4 .. so everyone of those scouts had him in their top 5 .. and 2 of the 3 had him ranked higher than Zadina

While at the same time saying he doesn't have the same high potential...which is what's being argued.

Tkachuk is a fine prospect, the Sens best. All most are saying is he isn't what should be taken with a 4th overall with some of the guys left in the board when you also lose a very likely high 1st next year at the same time.

 

[Solarion]

Exactly that. ^^^

It's what I've been saying for several pages. BT is a great hockey player, he's just not a great pick at #4. If I'm taking a winger that high he needs to be an elite goal scorer...Brady is not.

both the guys you quoted said that about Tkachuk in Montreal's pick spot #3 and the 3rd guy commenting had his Tkachuk comment in the Sens spot #4 .. so everyone of those scouts had him in their top 5 .. and 2 of the 3 had him ranked higher than Zadina

Yep, and the very next section of the very same page covered a mock draft for Ottawa. Two votes for Zadina, one vote for Tkachuk. There's more than just potential ceiling that goes into choosing a draft pick and everyone has their own criterion for making their selections. For me, at least, a winger drafted that high must possess elite scoring potential. While these guys agree that Tkachuk does not have that potential, they choose to overlook that fact...while I do not.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Zadina and Dobson were but the 2019 pick will have a few guys available who will be legit franchise guys.

I like Dobson. I think he should have gone higher . Is he a franchise player .. probably not .. A very good player probably. I am just not as enamored with Zadina as you are. Good talent. Quick vs Fast . Good hands. Very good accurate shot but I would not put him at Drouin level talent and certainly not franchise player talent. He is physically mature and a good size already . For me the jury is still out to see his game translate to an impact player in the NHL. See these are all just opinions , just like scouts have only they have more views and more chances to see things they like and don't like. No absolutes here on either side of the fence..strictly preference and how you project the player developing.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

While at the same time saying he doesn't have the same high potential...which is what's being argued.

Tkachuk is a fine prospect, the Sens best. All most are saying is he isn't what should be taken with a 4th overall with some of the guys left in the board when you also lose a very likely high 1st next year at the same time.

For me the absence of a first next year is the issue not taking Tkachuk. Tkachuk or Zadina or even Dobson who we both like . still no 1st next year... The mistake if we can call it that was made in the assessment of the team at the time of the Turris Duchene trade .. that's where we lost the 1st next year and to me the assessment of the team , considering Karlsson's injury and the loss of Methot is where the mistake was made . Zadina or Dobson doesn't lessen that blow sufficiently realistically. So not saying you are, but, I would not hang all that around Tkachuk's neck or the decision to take Tkachuk ahead of the remaining field. IMO Tkachuk will be a player and I understand why they took him.

 

[Ice-Tray]

While at the same time saying he doesn't have the same high potential...which is what's being argued.

Tkachuk is a fine prospect, the Sens best. All most are saying is he isn't what should be taken with a 4th overall with some of the guys left in the board when you also lose a very likely high 1st next year at the same time.

The thing is, we've already gone for the best shot in the draft before and it didn't pan out even remotely. Zadina has higher goal scoring potential than BT, but that doesn't mean he has the potential to be a better or more impactful hockey player.

There is more to hockey than scoring, there are lots of star players without an elite shot, and lots of guys with elite shots that aren't star players.

Trent Mann made it clear that in his mind the two players were of an equal skill level, different strengths obviously, but that everything else BT brought made him a unique player, and one they could not pass up regardless of Zadina being available.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sorry, I can't do that. Even the guys that suggested he'd be a good fit in Montreal at 3rd overall said the same thing as nearly everyone else...he lacks elite scoring instincts. While there's a lot to like about Brady Tkachuk, his potential is not "sky high". He's limited by his lack of an elite shot and elite scoring instincts. For a center, that's acceptable, but for a winger...it just won't do.

...and please don't turn it into another "I don't like BT thing". I do like Brady, I just don't like Brady as a top 5 draft pick...6-10 perhaps, 11-15 and I'm grabbing him, but at #4...I pass and take a center, dman, or winger with an elite shot.

"Kimelman -- Brady Tkachuk, LW, Boston University (H-EAST): Tkachuk might not be a dominant scorer but his size (6-3, 191) and strength will make his linemates a few inches taller. And when he's not scoring, he'll help in other areas of the game."

"Lepage -- Tkachuk: He may not be the most talented forward available but he has a set of unique qualities the Canadiens should not pass on."

Dahlin, Svechnikov unanimous 1-2 in final 2018 mock draft

Lots to like for sure, just not top 5 material...imo.

I think you are splitting hairs.. Good to have an opinion but that's all it is .. Like I said earlier .. its more about personal preference and what you see these players becoming. Lots of people like Tkachuk among those publishing ranks... There are a few people here that will tell you that's because of his name. I won't flat out BS you. I do not know why most chose to rank him where they did. McKenzie tells you why. Ahead of the draft some people get attached to certain prospects and in some cases grow a dislike for others for a variety of reasons.. I think in the majority of these cases the opinions are emotional and are based on very few actual viewings of games. I also think that its easy for the vast majority of fans to conclude a player scoring points in one major league is better than one scoring fewer points in another comparable major league regardless of how they play the game.

 

[Solarion]

Fair enough, though I don't think saying that Zadina has elite scoring potential and Tkachuk does not is really opinion.

There is more to hockey than scoring, there are lots of star players without an elite shot, and lots of guys with elite shots that aren't star players.

Sure, but games are still determined by which team scores the most goals. Ottawa struggled mightily to score last season, and that was with Hoffman, Karlsson, and Ryan. Take those 3 out of the lineup and that's 42 fewer goals. Hoffman is gone, and let's be realistic here, EK and Bobby Ryan are likely right behind him. Someone has to score goals and while I expect BT to chip in some goals here and there, he's not a gun slinger.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Fair enough, though I don't think saying that Zadina has elite scoring potential and Tkachuk does not is really opinion.

Sure, but games are still determined by which team scores the most goals. Ottawa struggled mightily to score last season, and that was with Hoffman, Karlsson, and Ryan. Take those 3 out of the lineup and that's 42 fewer goals. Hoffman is gone, and let's be realistic here, EK and Bobby Ryan are likely right behind him. Someone has to score goals and while I expect BT to chip in some goals here and there, he's not a gun slinger.

One good player is not going to fix anything. The team needs a lot. Its building blocks. Missing a first next year and getting peanuts for Hoffman really hurts more than selecting any of the players that went 4-12 in the draft over another.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Fair enough, though I don't think saying that Zadina has elite scoring potential and Tkachuk does not is really opinion.

Sure, but games are still determined by which team scores the most goals. Ottawa struggled mightily to score last season, and that was with Hoffman, Karlsson, and Ryan. Take those 3 out of the lineup and that's 42 fewer goals. Hoffman is gone, and let's be realistic here, EK and Bobby Ryan are likely right behind him. Someone has to score goals and while I expect BT to chip in some goals here and there, he's not a gun slinger.

Well of course it's an opinion given that we're talking about potential, but the goal scorer does look to have the edge at scoring goals if we're being honest. Like I said though, we've drafted a guy who was arguably the best pure scorer in the draft before, only to watch him not be able to translate that skill to the NHL. It's all just potential until the goals start coming.

Goals do matter, but few would argue that Hoffman was more important to the team last year over guys like Stone and Duchene. BT doesn't have to score all the goals, especially if he's facilitating play that allows other players to score, play bigger, get open, and have the puck in their possession.

Someone's gotta score, I agree, but one thing said over and over about BT is that when he's not scoring he's doing a bunch of other stuff to win the game. That to me is important given how hard it is to score in the league, and how guys that can to a degree like Hoffman end up being complimentary pieces because they just aren't able/willing to do everything else a player can do to win games.

In the end BT also has high level skills across the board, some better than Zadina, and some not as elite. I still think that he was worth the pick, and that he'll provide the level of impact on the team that we could hope for from a 4OA.

 

[Solarion]

Like I said though, we've drafted a guy who was arguably the best pure scorer in the draft before, only to watch him not be able to translate that skill to the NHL.

Who are we talking about? I believe the last pick Ottawa had that was better than 4th overall was way back in 2001? ...Spezza. That guy potted some goals for the Sens, production wasn't the problem there. Not sure who else you could be talking about(Zibanejad?), but surely we can agree the closer you get to 1st overall the more NHL ready guys tend to be. I think it very highly unlikely that either Brady Tkachuk or Filip Zadina are busts, but one of them is likely to put pucks in nets in bunches and the other is not. I'd rather Ottawa had chosen the guy that has the knack for scoring, particularly given they're going to be losing even more elite offense in the near future.

No, one good player won't fix everything and Ottawa needs lots of help, particularly after Karlsson and Ryan are gone, but you still have to score goals and to me a Brady Tkachuk type of player is easier to find than a guy with elite scoring potential like Filip Zadina.

 

[Cat Herder]

While at the same time saying he doesn't have the same high potential...which is what's being argued.

Tkachuk is a fine prospect, the Sens best. All most are saying is he isn't what should be taken with a 4th overall with some of the guys left in the board when you also lose a very likely high 1st next year at the same time.

What guys were left on the board that were ranked higher???

Zadina had been falling.. none of the D men that went were "better" according to the scouts consensus..

The poster I quoted said he wasnt a top 5 pick.. but obviously the scouts he quoted thought he wqas

 

[Ice-Tray]

Who are we talking about? I believe the last pick Ottawa had that was better than 4th overall was way back in 2001? ...Spezza. That guy potted some goals for the Sens, production wasn't the problem there. Not sure who else you could be talking about(Zibanejad?), but surely we can agree the closer you get to 1st overall the more NHL ready guys tend to be. I think it very highly unlikely that either Brady Tkachuk or Filip Zadina are busts, but one of them is likely to put pucks in nets in bunches and the other is not. I'd rather Ottawa had chosen the guy that has the knack for scoring, particularly given they're going to be losing even more elite offense in the near future.

Puemple, is the guy, he had some really high praise coming into the draft. Arguable the best shot/scorer in the draft, and busted hard in the NHL. Just an example of how an elite shot doesn't mean scoring star, Hoffman is another example on our team who couldn't crack star scorer status and he had the speed as well.

See you're doing that thing again, why exactly is BT not likely to score in the NHL again? He has excellent offensive skills, he's just not known as a pure goal scorer. As for Zadina, it's tough to score in bunches in the NHL for any prospect, many more highly touted scorers have failed to score 'in bunches' before him. I'd wait and see if the 6OA player ends up scoring before claiming we should have taken him.

 

[Solarion]

Come on man, that guy was drafted in the low(mid?) twenties. The percentage of busts out that far rises dramatically. We're talking about a NUMBER FOUR pick here.

...and yes, again, Brady has decent offense, he does not have elite offensive skills.

No, you're doing that thing again. I never said Brady wasn't likely to score in the NHL. I said exactly the opposite actually...he'll pot some goals. I'd bet $$$ that he pots significantly fewer goals than Filip Zadina though.

Okay be happy with your safe choice at number four, because that's exactly what this is...a safe choice. High floor, but correspondingly low ceiling. I hope it works out. Clearly the Sens are heading for hard times. My own take is that a dynamic scorer like Zadina would be a much better centerpiece for a rebuild than an all around good player(but not great scorer) like Tkachuk, but that's just my own take. Time will tell.

What guys were left on the board that were ranked higher???

...off the top of my head I'd have chosen Zadina, Hughes, Dobson, or Wahlstrom ahead of Tkachuk at #4.

 

[JungleBeat]

See you're doing that thing again, why exactly is BT not likely to score in the NHL again? He has excellent offensive skills, he's just not known as a pure goal scorer. As for Zadina, it's tough to score in bunches in the NHL for any prospect, many more highly touted scorers have failed to score 'in bunches' before him. I'd wait and see if the 6OA player ends up scoring before claiming we should have taken him.

Zadina has the higher offensive ceiling compared to Tkachuk. I’d wager Zadina becomes the more dominant offensive player. Nobody is saying Tkachuk won’t score in the NHL, 45 - 50 points is nothing to sneeze at, but not at the expense of a lotto pick.

 

[AvsMakar08]

One good player is not going to fix anything. The team needs a lot. Its building blocks. Missing a first next year and getting peanuts for Hoffman really hurts more than selecting any of the players that went 4-12 in the draft over another.

Anarchy. Avs fan coming in piece. What do you think about Bowers becoming a 2nd line center? Why, did you guys gave up on him or did not like him as a prospect? Seems like a decent kid with good size, good shot. Some Sens fans were down on him or did not like him?

 

[Micklebot]

Anarchy. Avs fan coming in piece. What do you think about Bowers becoming a 2nd line center? Why, did you guys gave up on him or did not like him as a prospect? Seems like a decent kid with good size, good shot. Some Sens fans were down on him or did not like him?

I haven't followed his progress too closely since the trade, but to put it in perspective, Colin White, who had a much more impressive first year in Boston College, I see as a real good middle six forward, and I saw Bowers as more of a 3rd line center that could occassionally move up the lineup.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Anarchy. Avs fan coming in piece. What do you think about Bowers becoming a 2nd line center? Why, did you guys gave up on him or did not like him as a prospect? Seems like a decent kid with good size, good shot. Some Sens fans were down on him or did not like him?

I like Bowers probably more than most here. My take on the consensus here is that Bowers was another "safe" pick and people wanted to swing more for the fences with Tolvanen or Kostin or Boqvist.. who are seen as being more skilled finesse players. They are all looking like good picks as well. Most here saw him as a 2-3 tweener upside but were also pleasantly surprised at how well he did at BU last year. Sens also have White and Chlapik who fit in that area as well. Sens have been lacking in the pure skill forward department though and they seem to go after the safer player more often than not.. I think the complaints would be more about that , than about Bowers as a player specifically. I personally would have like Comtois there.. Having Comtois and Formenton, White and now Tkachuk would end up being absolutely no fun to play against. Sakic was probably asking for Chabot, White or Brown and settled on Bowers more than giving up on him.. they paid a heavy price for Duchene. I hope Bowers continue to grow as a player.. Having a crack at Team Canada WJC will be great for him if he makes it.

 

[Cat Herder]

Come on man, that guy was drafted in the low(mid?) twenties. The percentage of busts out that far rises dramatically. We're talking about a NUMBER FOUR pick here.

...and yes, again, Brady has decent offense, he does not have elite offensive skills.

No, you're doing that thing again. I never said Brady wasn't likely to score in the NHL. I said exactly the opposite actually...he'll pot some goals. I'd bet $$$ that he pots significantly fewer goals than Filip Zadina though.

Okay be happy with your safe choice at number four, because that's exactly what this is...a safe choice. High floor, but correspondingly low ceiling. I hope it works out. Clearly the Sens are heading for hard times. My own take is that a dynamic scorer like Zadina would be a much better centerpiece for a rebuild than an all around good player(but not great scorer) like Tkachuk, but that's just my own take. Time will tell.

...off the top of my head I'd have chosen Zadina, Hughes, Dobson, or Wahlstrom ahead of Tkachuk at #4.

and NONE of those guys were ranked higher in the link you provided nor in McKenzies list

 

[Solarion]

Scouts bungle picks every single draft...it's just the nature of the beast. Wingers have the lowest value in general, so choosing one #4 entails its own risk. To me Tkachuk is a very safe pick in that he's very unlikely to bust, but he also isn't a great player to build a team around.

I posted this graphic before. Ignore it if you like, disagree with it if you choose, but it doesn't make it any less valid as a differing opinion.

 

[Micklebot]

Scouts bungle picks every single draft...it's just the nature of the beast. Wingers have the lowest value in general, so choosing one #4 entails its own risk. To me Tkachuk is a very safe pick in that he's very unlikely to bust, but he also isn't a great player to build a team around.

I posted this graphic before. Ignore it if you like, disagree with it if you choose, but it doesn't make it any less valid as a differing opinion.

People point to Tkachuk's production in Boston when arguing he isn't as good a prospect as whomever they like, but it's interesting to note that his production is very similar to Mittelstatd's while being a full year younger, and the latter is 4th on that list. Given that the calling card for Tkachuk is his all round game and not just production, why is it people don't worry nearly the same about Mittelstatd?

 

[TheBradyBunch]

Scouts bungle picks every single draft...it's just the nature of the beast. Wingers have the lowest value in general, so choosing one #4 entails its own risk. To me Tkachuk is a very safe pick in that he's very unlikely to bust, but he also isn't a great player to build a team around.

I posted this graphic before. Ignore it if you like, disagree with it if you choose, but it doesn't make it any less valid as a differing opinion.

What does that graphic purportedly show? I count guys from 5 different drafts on the chart and 7 guys from 2018 ahead of Tkachuk.

 

[JungleBeat]

People point to Tkachuk's production in Boston when arguing he isn't as good a prospect as whomever they like, but it's interesting to note that his production is very similar to Mittelstatd's while being a full year younger, and the latter is 4th on that list. Given that the calling card for Tkachuk is his all round game and not just production, why is it people don't worry nearly the same about Mittelstatd?

Because Mittlestadt is an extremely raw prospect coming out of high school, while Tkachuk has been produced from the usntdp. Mittlestadt was also the leader for his college team in PPG and was voted the best player in the world juniors. Add in the fact that he had five points in six games at the NHL level, it’s not surprising why people aren’t worried. He’s shown flashes of ELITE skills with the moves he pulls off.

When comparing Mittlestadt to Tkachuk it’s easy to see who has the elite offensive skills and tools. You can look at Tkachuk’s average numbers and then look at his toolset - below average shot, average hands, good vision and conclude that he really won’t be game breaker offensively.