Post-Game Talk: #43: Flyers at Red Wings, Sunday, January 17, 2016

[TCTC]

I'm hoping when Doc Emrick retires, that NBC brings in Gord and Ray full time and makes them the #1 group. I don't know if they do every Sunday night game on NBCSN, but they should.

I also like Strader and Engblom. I think Strader works for the Stars now, so I don't know if he still does NBC games.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Don't see many at all criticize the system or style they are playing at all. If you think the team wouldn't be even better without 1 of RJ, VV, or White, you are probably gonna have people disagree with you.

Go back to every pre-game thread since we acquired Weal. It's not about how well we're playing lately or trying to understand that a coach doesn't want mess with a winning roster (winning as in a 6-0-1 stretch) in a critical part of the season for a playoff push. It's about *****ing how a player who we've never seen play for us and struggled to get into LA's lineup isn't being inserted. Not an ounce of trying to give understanding to the coaching standpoint or credit to the streak we're on.

It's not the only example. Go back to earlier in the year when they were struggling and we were hit with tons of injuries and Ghost wasn't up yet. All you heard was constant *****ing and doubting of Hakstol even though we had barely seen any of him yet and there were obvious reasons for struggling with points (namely just bad luck, injuries, and a lack of personnel). Then go to after Ghost was brought up then all you heard was *****ing about how Manning is in the lineup. Since he's been benched nobody has given Hakstol credit for benching him.

Hakstol doesn't want to mess with a lineup that's winning and like it or not that's a mentality that pervades NHL coaching and has credence to it. We're not talking about a plethora of options here either. It's either Weal or a bunch of bottom six options that might as well be interchangeable.

He put Lecavalier on permanent bench. He's been benching Manning for a while despite that all people cared about was Manning playing before. Now it's Weal even though we're doing as well or even better than anyone thought we should be doing going into the season.

Literally, someone called Hakstol an "absolute idiot" for not inserting Weal for Umberger. Umberger didn't cost us anything this game. Weal has proven nothing at the NHL level. There's credence to not changing a winning lineup or a lineup playing well. I'd like to see Weal given a chance but I'm not gonna fixate on such a minor ****ing thing considering the context and especially over a player who's proven as little as Weal.

Historically this season, this board has either **** on Hakstol for the smallest of things or just conveniently ignored him when the team's winning or when he stops doing what everyone is *****ing about (such as playing Manning). This board focuses on the smallest **** like internet know-it-alls and just keeps on doing it.

The rulebook explicitly states that the goaltender being in or out of the crease isn't a determining factor with regard to goaltender interference.

I'm not gonna get into a rulebook debate as I'd rather watch paint dry, but me and the other person were referencing the post-game broadcast. What you're saying has no relevance to what they did, in fact, state on the post-game broadcast.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i like how Simmer is to scared to watch it live...


hahaahah

 

[hckyplayer8]

The ruling(s) weren't incidental contact. It was goaltender inference.


If the power play operates and moves like it did in the 3rd period, it will be fine.

If that's the case that's an even bigger joke as the rule states incidental contact outside of the crease goals should be allowed provided the player makes an attempt to avoid contact.

So the refs are saying Simmonds intentionally tried to bump into the goalie while not facing him and while trying to avoid the incoming puck.

What a joke.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A lot of people gave Hakstol about 2-3 weeks to turn the team around when past coaching changes have indicated it's more like 2-3 months. Well, it's 2-3 months and things are looking a hell of a lot better.

 

[Random Forest]

I have to point out that Voracek has made that exact same attempt before and been called "pathetic" because the goalie managed to close the five hole in time. This time Mrazek couldn't stop it, but the attempt was identical. Not so pathetic when it works.

 

[TCTC]

A lot of people gave Hakstol about 2-3 weeks to turn the team around when past coaching changes have indicated it's more like 2-3 months. Well, it's 2-3 months and things are looking a hell of a lot better.

I really like the top 2 lines right now and the 3rd line (the Laughton line) is also steadily improving. The defense is looking better and the goalies are doing their job. There really is not much to complain about at the moment.

 

[Sniped]

Its silly. I cannot stand VDV and Umberger, etc but Hak is playing with who he has and is doing a solid job. This team is lightyears better 5 on 5 in years. Special teams has taken a dive but the same coaches are here. It has to be a player thing. Just going through the funk. I like Lappy and all but the team should go another way for the penalty kill than him.

I'm surprised Lappy survived after Berube was fired. The Flyers have had 2 pretty bad seasons on the PK while Lappy has been at the helm.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

69.4 as mentioned above:

Contact Outside the Goal Crease - If an attacking player initiates any contact with a goalkeeper, other than incidental contact, while the
goalkeeper is outside his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

A goalkeeper is not “fair game” just because he is outside the goal crease. The appropriate penalty should be assessed in every case
where an attacking player makes unnecessary contact with the goalkeeper. However, incidental contact will be permitted when the
goalkeeper is in the act of playing the puck outside his goal crease provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid
such unnecessary contact.

When a goalkeeper has played the puck outside of his crease and is then prevented from returning to his crease area due to the
deliberate actions of an attacking player, such player may be penalized for goalkeeper interference. Similarly, the goalkeeper may
be penalized, if by his actions outside of his crease he deliberately interferes with an attacking player who is attempting to play the puck
or an opponent.

Source: NHL Rule Book

 

[Patrick Division]

On the post-game discussion, they said that the non-goal for us was because Neuvirth's glove was in the white paint...but they failed to recognize that probably at least half of Mrazek's body (not just a glove, his whole body) was in the white paint. Makes no ****ing sense, especially considering the goal against us went off the ****ing glove that got moved.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was thinking when they tried giving that dumb explanation on NBC. If they don't call one they shouldn't have called the other.

 

[Rebels57]

Apparently, since he had a solid game tonight while other forwards were getting caved in and you're still whining about him.

Umberger had a solid game tonight?

 

[Winston Wolf]

Couturier-Read & Giroux-Laughton should be the main PKing pairs upfront. It won't happen though because Lappy lets his bias based off his playing days get into the way of doing what's best for him & the team with the fourth line pet projects. He's hasn't been dealt a great hand in options to pick from especially on the backend but he makes things much harder than they need to be.

Yeah, Laughton should be in there, too. Raffl played about a minute a game on the PK last year and almost two minutes a game the year before and he was a hell of a lot better than either of Bellemare or VandeVelde.

Either way, I'm going to be very happy when all three members of the scrub line are off the team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have to point out that Voracek has made that exact same attempt before and been called "pathetic" because the goalie managed to close the five hole in time. This time Mrazek couldn't stop it, but the attempt was identical. Not so pathetic when it works.

Just about any shootout attempt looks pathetic when it fails.


The troublesome thing is that our attempts fail a lot.

 

[Striiker]

I have to point out that Voracek has made that exact same attempt before and been called "pathetic" because the goalie managed to close the five hole in time. This time Mrazek couldn't stop it, but the attempt was identical. Not so pathetic when it works.

The complaining about the shootout attempts is some of the most puzzling **** on the board. When they try to shoot it's "what a lazy attempt, are they even trying?" and then when they try to dangle it's "why are they dangling, just shoot it!".

I don't get it but I don't have the time to argue with everyone whining about it.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Giroux's shootout goal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CY-NPS_UoAAjrsD.mp4

 

[Rebels57]

Lappy clearly has to go as PK coach but id like to keep him in the organization in some capacity.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I really like the top 2 lines right now and the 3rd line (the Laughton line) is also steadily improving. The defense is looking better and the goalies are doing their job. There really is not much to complain about at the moment.

Well for a while Couturier has only rarely been given more than one competent winger, and often none. When he gets two guys to work with one or both have tended to be taken away within like 3-5 games.


Hakstol worked his way towards putting wingers on Cout's line who can actually do something, and unlike his predecessors he's actually leaving them there.

Laughton now is gonna be having those issues. We just don't have enough quality offensive players to fill more than the top 6.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Giroux probably doesn't score on his without the mishandle.

 

[beetee15]

Umberger needs to get in the pressbox, other than that no complaints

 

[Rebels57]

Lost in the shuffle of the game is that Ghost technically scored another game-winner. That puck was going in regardless of the contact. Waiving it off was the right call but its nice him blowing a puck by a goalie again with the game on the line.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Full highlights can be found here:

http://www.nbcsports.com/video/highlights-jakub-voracek-flyers-beat-red-wings-2-1-shootout

 

[bennysflyers16]

The complaining about the shootout attempts is some of the most puzzling **** on the board. When they try to shoot it's "what a lazy attempt, are they even trying?" and then when they try to dangle it's "why are they dangling, just shoot it!".

I don't get it but I don't have the time to argue with everyone whining about it.

Puzzling when they are the worst team ever by a large margin , really ? And I honestly can't recall 5 times we shot over dekeing other than Jakes last 2 attempts ?

 

[TCTC]

Well for a while Couturier has only rarely been given more than one competent winger, and often none. When he gets two guys to work with one or both have tended to be taken away within like 3-5 games.


Hakstol worked his way towards putting wingers on Cout's line who can actually do something, and unlike his predecessors he's actually leaving them there.

Laughton now is gonna be having those issues. We just don't have enough quality offensive players to fill more than the top 6.

That's true. I'm fine with Read's performance since he's back in the lineup, but Umberger has turned into a non-factor offensively. Although at least he isn't a defensive liability like Gagner and we don't know if Weal is any good.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

Giroux's shootout goal:

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CY-NPS_UoAAjrsD.mp4

I didn't notice how he lost it live. It worked out better for him.

 

[GKJ]

I'm not gonna get into a rulebook debate as I'd rather watch paint dry, but me and the other person were referencing the post-game broadcast. What you're saying has no relevance to what they did, in fact, state on the post-game broadcast.

The NHL has a long history of not adhering to their various league mandates and memos. The league has different rules based on what month of the year it is.

If that's the case that's an even bigger joke as the rule states incidental contact outside of the crease goals should be allowed provided the player makes an attempt to avoid contact.

So the refs are saying Simmonds intentionally tried to bump into the goalie while not facing him and while trying to avoid the incoming puck.

What a joke.

Yes, basically, that's what happened.