GDT: #39 - 12/31/19 | RANGERS @ oilers | 9:00 - MSG, NHLN

[chosen]

...So if you're suggesting the idea that it's okay for the on ice officials to take out their anger and feelings on a coach who has gotten under the skin---I'm telling you it's not and you wouldn't have that standard for the off ice officials either. By the way they do their jobs better.

It's easier to do your job when you have replays and multiple angles to view and time to do it.

 

[Inferno]

Yep. Players get benched, lose ice time, get sent to minors for poor play. Coaches get fired for doing a poor job. The refs skate on. There needs to be more accountability. The league needs to show teams and the fans that there are consequences. The secretive handling of refs is BS

The refs make a ton of money for playoff games .it's something like 4x a regular game. They want to do playoffs ..it's a lot of money for them... They lose the playoffs for poor in season reffing or within the playoffs themselves.

No ref is going to be intentionally biased or betting on games, you guys sound like my paranoid family members who are legit suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (it runs in my family). There is no bias, there is no gambling, there's just refs who had a bad game.

Did anyone complain about how bad the refs were in the canes game where we got away with a blatant double minor high sticking call? No. Were the refs betting on the rangers in that one? Was one of them from Connecticut or something? Come on guys... Show a little more sense than this.

I'd you've ever played any sport, at any level, you know there's always bad reffing. Always. Always always.

 

[chosen]

The refs make a ton of money for playoff games .it's something like 4x a regular game. They want to do playoffs ..it's a lot of money for them... They lose the playoffs for poor in season reffing or within the playoffs themselves.

No ref is going to be intentionally biased or betting on games, you guys sound like my paranoid family members who are legit suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (it runs in my family). There is no bias, there is no gambling, there's just refs who had a bad game.

Did anyone complain about how bad the refs were in the canes game where we got away with a blatant double minor high sticking call? No. Were the refs betting on the rangers in that one? Was one of them from Connecticut or something? Come on guys... Show a little more sense than this.

I'd you've ever played any sport, at any level, you know there's always bad reffing. Always. Always always.

It's not that all reffing is bad, it's that it's incredibly hard to referee a game where 12 players are flying around the ice at the same time.

 

[SA16]

Some of those penalty calls were ridiculous but Quinn absolutely deserved an unsportsmanlike penalty for what he did.

 

[Inferno]

It's not that all reffing is bad, it's that it's incredibly hard to referee a game where 12 players are flying around the ice at the same time.

All reffing is not bad. Every ref has bad games.

 

[Inferno]

Some of those penalty calls were ridiculous but Quinn absolutely deserved an unsportsmanlike penalty for what he did.

He did, and I didn't have an issue with it then, or now. I woulda lost my crap too.

 

[BleedBlueNYR]

The refs make a ton of money for playoff games .it's something like 4x a regular game. They want to do playoffs ..it's a lot of money for them... They lose the playoffs for poor in season reffing or within the playoffs themselves.

No ref is going to be intentionally biased or betting on games, you guys sound like my paranoid family members who are legit suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (it runs in my family). There is no bias, there is no gambling, there's just refs who had a bad game.

Did anyone complain about how bad the refs were in the canes game where we got away with a blatant double minor high sticking call? No. Were the refs betting on the rangers in that one? Was one of them from Connecticut or something? Come on guys... Show a little more sense than this.

I'd you've ever played any sport, at any level, you know there's always bad reffing. Always. Always always.

I don’t think you can say for sure there’s no gambling going on with refs, just look at went on in the NBA not to long ago. Chances are though it’s usually just bad calls because everyone makes mistakes at their jobs.

Even betting might not lead to biased refs because it could just be a ref feeding people info on how the league wants them to call a game. IMO it’s pretty safe to say that most or all refs are trying to do their job correctly and just screw up here an there like anybody.

 

[JHS]

Quinn is not the only coach to ride the refs and I doubt he’s the worst.

He’s a second year NHL coach with 0 credibility. That’s a lot different than Scottie Bowman laying into a ref.

 

[The S5]

I agree with you but you are being way to short sighted. These refs are humans and they will not respond well to Quinn’s behavior. It’s pretty obvious since most post game threads in this site are filled with guys complaining about the refs.

You are close to correct— the game is not about the refs but their job is to keep control of the game. If they allow the behavior of petulant coaches to go in checked they lose that control and lose the respect. They can’t do that.

Also, warnings at higher level hockey games are not things. I’ve been involved in too many to tell you. The way a ref handles it at high levels is he goes over and says exactly what occurred in his opinion and the coach responds either by accepting the explanation or throwing a fit. If he throws a fit the ref usually will allow it as long as it is not a personal attack or a visibly public display designed to embarrass the ref. Those are the two that are no go’s and by that level every coach knows that. I’ll warn a 10 year old coach but at the upper levels the coaches already know.

I disagree. Ref the game according to what is happening on the ice. If the coach gets out of line, issue the bench minor. A coach won't continue to put his team down a man. If you let a coaches behavior influence your calls on the ice, then you are unfit to ref at the NHL level. If you allow a coach to berate you unchecked, its your own fault.

Regarding Quinn, I really don't know how refs perceive him and I don't care. Do your job.

 

[The S5]

He’s a second year NHL coach with 0 credibility. That’s a lot different than Scottie Bowman laying into a ref.

That should have zero to do with the way the game is called on the ice.
New coach and refs don't want to let him get away with any bench antics? Fine, issue the minor penalty.
If the ref decides retribution is to call a one-sided game, they should be out of a job.

 

[chosen]

All reffing is not bad. Every ref has bad games.

They don't have bad games. They get a call or two wrong and a bunch right. The problem is that every human being put into a position where they have to make decisions at a frenetic pace will inevitably make mistakes.

If this were not true, we would have already had refs that we think are great refs, and fans, no matter the sport, ever think that.

And some fans of every team in every team believe that the refs are biased against their team. Why doesn't that tell everyone that this can't all be true? Only their team is getting jobbed? Yeah, sure.

 

[chosen]

He’s a second year NHL coach with 0 credibility. That’s a lot different than Scottie Bowman laying into a ref.

No, it's not at all.

No one can offer any evidence to support your assertion.

 

[NCRanger]

And they always bet against the Rangers?

If you're going to fix a game, why wait until between periods?

No wonder this country is drowning in conspiracy theories.

Other teams get screwed too. This is a Ranger board, and I don’t have the time to watch as many other games as I used to...

 

[chosen]

Other teams get screwed too. This is a Ranger board, and I don’t have the time to watch as many other games as I used to...

If everyone's getting screwed, no one's getting screwed.

 

[JHS]

Until now anyway I haven't run into anyone who has ever really sat down to watch a game and rooted for the refs to win. If I get the point of your message though it's that the on ice officials around the league are more interested in trying to tame Quinn than they are doing their own ****ing jobs......which they are well paid to do with some semblance of fairness by the way. And the reason they should put their feelings aside is that it's not just the players who are privileged to play in the league but they are privileged as well to officiate and they owe a good job not just to the league and the teams that play in the league but also to the fans whom without the league wouldn't even exist. So if you're suggesting the idea that it's okay for the on ice officials to take out their anger and feelings on a coach who has gotten under the skin---I'm telling you it's not and you wouldn't have that standard for the off ice officials either. By the way they do their jobs better.

I’m not rooting for the refs but you are kidding yourself if you think refs don’t have preconceived ideas about certain coaches. Again, you guys blaming the refs fall in your own sword when you say every game is a “ref problem”. The only consistent here is Quinn. It’s pretty obvious to me that he does not have the respect of the one ice officials and every single person whose ever played or been involved in high level hockey knows that respect is the key. A official had no issue with a coach disagreeing with him— they have major issues with being disrespected and Quinn’s actions are consistentaly disrepectful.

 

[The S5]

You are aware that every game these officials are evaluated and reports are written. Just like players and coaches, officials have bad games— should they be canned after one bad game? If you publically make evaluations available then those guys that are on the bottom will have even a harder time and I fail to see the point of that. As it should be, these types of critiques are handled behind closed doors!

I understand how these refs are evaluated. But, like any other job, if you are shown to be unprofessional and bias, then you should be either sent to the A to gain more experience or put on some type of performance plan.
Where I think we disagree is putting this on Quinn. You may not like him, but he isn't the only coach to yell at refs when they make mind-boggling calls.

 

[JHS]

That should have zero to do with the way the game is called on the ice.
New coach and refs don't want to let him get away with any bench antics? Fine, issue the minor penalty.
If the ref decides retribution is to call a one-sided game, they should be out of a job.

But that’s exactly what the refs last night did. I’m not sure what the problem is then by your way of thinking. Quinn went insane and they issued him the bench- at that point it’s over.

No ref calls a one sided game— but if there are borderline calls that can go either way( which happens all the time) the ref simply does not give that coach the call. This is really not hard to understand and people who’ve played in sports get it.

 

[NCRanger]

If everyone's getting screwed, no one's getting screwed.

We’ve had this conversation on and off for probably close to ten years.

I’m sorry, the “bad calls” do not “even out”. The Rangers are one team that is a net minus.

They just are. It’s not perception. It is reality. Sure, there are TIMES the Rangers have benefited from a missed or bad call, but like I said, it’s not 50-50.

 

[The S5]

They don't have bad games. They get a call or two wrong and a bunch right. The problem is that every human being put into a position where they have to make decisions at a frenetic pace will inevitably make mistakes.

If this were not true, we would have already had refs that we think are great refs, and fans, no matter the sport, ever think that.

And some fans of every team in every team believe that the refs are biased against their team. Why doesn't that tell everyone that this can't all be true? Only their team is getting jobbed? Yeah, sure.

You are spot on.
Where I and probably others have an issue is when an official makes the game more about themselves because they feel they have been disrespected. Nobody pays to watch refs get bent out of shape. I'll go a step further and say that a bad call or two adds to the intensity of the game, at least from the fans perspective. But, this notion that a ref is going to call the game a certain way because of dislike for a coach is the height of unprofessionalism. I'm not sure it really ever gets to that point, but JHS seems to be stating that it is somewhat accepted at the NHL level. I don't buy it.
If anything, I see it coaching youth hockey, where guys aren't paid enough to take a coaches crap.

 

[JHS]

If everyone's getting screwed, no one's getting screwed.

That’s really a good point. There is a saying around the referee circles- “If one bench is mad at you, you are not doing a good job, but if both benches are mad at you then you are doing a great job.”

 

[NCRanger]

I’ve played many sports. I’ve reffed football and hockey in college. I now coach soccer and basketball.

When I officiated, and someone aggressively complained about a call for a long time, my immediate reaction was NOT to doubly penalize the other team, but to pause, and think that maybe I did miss something or make the wrong call.

As a player, I always thanked the officials for their time, UNLESS they were bad, and or biased. In house leagues, bias does enter it. One time after an egregiously bad game, I said to a ref, “the next time I want to get ****** in the *** at 11 PM, I’ll ask my girlfriend to use her vibrator”. Surprisingly, the guy cracked up laughing and admitted he had a bad game.

These days, in youth sports, I’ve noticed the officials tend to be over aggressive in calling games. They call things that don’t even exist and they wonder why coaches and parents yell at them. When I played youth sports, the refs didn’t ref games like cops on speed like they do today.

 

[JHS]

You are spot on.
Where I and probably others have an issue is when an official makes the game more about themselves because they feel they have been disrespected. Nobody pays to watch refs get bent out of shape. I'll go a step further and say that a bad call or two adds to the intensity of the game, at least from the fans perspective. But, this notion that a ref is going to call the game a certain way because of dislike for a coach is the height of unprofessionalism. I'm not sure it really ever gets to that point, but JHS seems to be stating that it is somewhat accepted at the NHL level. I don't buy it.
If anything, I see it coaching youth hockey, where guys aren't paid enough to take a coaches crap.

Just want to clarify— I’m not suggesting it’s ok( I never have) and you seem knowledgeable enough in this. What I’m saying is a coaches behavior behind the bench can influence an officials decisions on the ice both positively and negatively. Show the official respect and he gives it back. Show the official no respect and you don’t get it back. That’s my only point here. My secondary point is Quinn should look at how his behavior is impacting the calls his team is not getting and change accordingly. It’s all about winning games and that should be his focus.

 

[chosen]

We’ve had this conversation on and off for probably close to ten years.

I’m sorry, the “bad calls” do not “even out”. The Rangers are one team that is a net minus.

They just are. It’s not perception. It is reality. Sure, there are TIMES the Rangers have benefited from a missed or bad call, but like I said, it’s not 50-50.

A reality can be proven. You can offer zero evidence. You can only make an assertion.

Why do you believe there are fans of every other team who believe the exact same thing about the refs being biased against their team?

Do you think your opinion is more accurate than theirs? How would you go about proving that?

Any evidence you can present would be great to have and talk about.

And again, if you you believe your own allegation and continue to root against an institutional bias, you're not making sense.

Every time I run headfirst into a brick wall, it hurts.

Maybe I should do it again and it will turn out different this time.

 

[chosen]

You are spot on.
Where I and probably others have an issue is when an official makes the game more about themselves because they feel they have been disrespected. Nobody pays to watch refs get bent out of shape. I'll go a step further and say that a bad call or two adds to the intensity of the game, at least from the fans perspective. But, this notion that a ref is going to call the game a certain way because of dislike for a coach is the height of unprofessionalism. I'm not sure it really ever gets to that point, but JHS seems to be stating that it is somewhat accepted at the NHL level. I don't buy it.
If anything, I see it coaching youth hockey, where guys aren't paid enough to take a coaches crap.

Where did this theory come from that refs have biases against less experienced coaches? Do you have any data to support it?

I'm not one of the metrics expert advocates here, but I can't dispute numbers. Numbers are evidence. Beliefs and assertions are not evidence.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The refs make a ton of money for playoff games .it's something like 4x a regular game. They want to do playoffs ..it's a lot of money for them... They lose the playoffs for poor in season reffing or within the playoffs themselves.

No ref is going to be intentionally biased or betting on games, you guys sound like my paranoid family members who are legit suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (it runs in my family). There is no bias, there is no gambling, there's just refs who had a bad game.

Did anyone complain about how bad the refs were in the canes game where we got away with a blatant double minor high sticking call? No. Were the refs betting on the rangers in that one? Was one of them from Connecticut or something? Come on guys... Show a little more sense than this.

I'd you've ever played any sport, at any level, you know there's always bad reffing. Always. Always always.

It doesn't make sense if people look at it as if some crooked refs are sandbagging, which does not happen because it doesn't need to happen.

The separation of the NHL, the sports media. the officiating union, and mobile sports betting sites are not as wide as one would like.

The point is to keep viewers and a spread. They aren't winning bets. The are getting awarded better games and better salaries for doing a good job for the leviathan running the big show.