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GDT: #39 - 12/31/19 | RANGERS @ oilers | 9:00 - MSG, NHLN

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chosen said:
Where did this theory come from that refs have biases against less experienced coaches? Do you have any data to support it?

I'm not one of the metrics expert advocates here, but I can't dispute numbers. Numbers are evidence. Beliefs and assertions are not evidence.
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I did a little looking into this- It appears based on what I could find that the last game Ian Walsh officiated with the Rangers before last night was in November. At that point over the past 3 seasons the team was exactly 5 and 5 with him working games. After last night, they are now 1 game below 500. Seems like not exactly support for conspiracy theories or supporting this idea that this ref has it "out" for the Rangers. The other ref, Schelnker has too small a sample size for me to draw any actual conclusions.

Let's put aside for a minute how little influence an official actually has on any one game and completely ignore that over the course of an entire season each individual matchup has a multiple of factors that are far more important than the official.

Link to the site where I found the info-https://scoutingtherefs.com/2019/11/27879/tonights-nhl-referees-and-linesmen-11-14-2019/
 
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JHS said:
I did a little looking into this- It appears based on what I could find that the last game Ian Walsh officiated with the Rangers before last night was in November. At that point over the past 3 seasons the team was exactly 5 and 5 with him working games. After last night, they are now 1 game below 500. Seems like not exactly support for conspiracy theories or supporting this idea that this ref has it "out" for the Rangers. The other ref, Schelnker has too small a sample size for me to draw any actual conclusions.

Let's put aside for a minute how little influence an official actually has on any one game and completely ignore that over the course of an entire season each individual matchup has a multiple of factors that are far more important than the official.

Link to the site where I found the info-https://scoutingtherefs.com/2019/11/27879/tonights-nhl-referees-and-linesmen-11-14-2019/
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He doesn't hate the Rangers. He works for the league. The league doesn't hate the Rangers. The Rangers are a fraction of the league, and the Board of governors like the league. The sports media, foodstuff sellers, beer companies, and sports betting app owners like the board of governors.

And random people don't really give a rat's ass about the intricate complexities of a game they dont watch all the time and maybe never played. They just have a good time, so they want to see a good time.
 
chosen said:
Where did this theory come from that refs have biases against less experienced coaches? Do you have any data to support it?

I'm not one of the metrics expert advocates here, but I can't dispute numbers. Numbers are evidence. Beliefs and assertions are not evidence.
Click to expand...
I'm not stating that they do. I was commenting on the poster stating that refs are humans and might give more experienced coaches more leeway.
My point was that the ref should penalize the coach with a bench minor, don't call the game differently. FWIW, I'm not sure that refs consciously call the game differently. Moreso, they are just borderline incompetent.
 
Quinn has had more than enough time to sort out this defensive disaster. It's obvious at this point he has no clue what to do about it. He needs to be fired.
 
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ReggieDunlop68 said:
He doesn't hate the Rangers. He works for the league. The league doesn't hate the Rangers. The Rangers are a fraction of the league, and the Board of governors like the league. The sports media, foodstuff sellers, beer companies, and sports betting app owners like the board of governors.

And random people don't really give a rat's ass about the intricate complexities of a game they dont watch all the time and maybe never played. They just have a good time, so they want to see a good time.
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Well many others on here are spouting off a conspiracy theory that the refs have it in for the Rangers and I don't for a second buy that, One interesting thing about this particular official- since Quinn has taken over the team has never won a game with him working the game. A random happen stance of statistics, I'm sure, but it does support the claim that officials don't take as well to inexperienced coaches giving it to the ref.
 
The S5 said:
I'm not stating that they do. I was commenting on the poster stating that refs are humans and might give more experienced coaches more leeway.
My point was that the ref should penalize the coach with a bench minor, don't call the game differently. FWIW, I'm not sure that refs consciously call the game differently. Moreso, they are just borderline incompetent.
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These guys are far from incompetent. Just curious if you've ever officiated a high level hockey game? I don't mean that to insult you in anyway or even call into question your judgment- I just mean to see if you have any experience with the speed of the game even at that level. The highest level I've ever worked is low level junior hockey. Even the speed at that level which is probably 6 or so levels below the NHL and filled with guys who are just hoping maybe to get a shot at being a 4th liner at the NCAA level is so incredibly fast and filled with so many quick decisions that I can't even imagine how fast and tough the NHL is. I know a few guys who work the AHL and they always come back and tell stories about how incredibly fast the game is and how most of the time you are just trying to stay out of the way of the play let alone get every call correct. That league is filled with players who can't even crack an NHL lineup so that should tell you something right there.
 
JHS said:
Well many others on here are spouting off a conspiracy theory that the refs have it in for the Rangers and I don't for a second buy that, One interesting thing about this particular official- since Quinn has taken over the team has never won a game with him working the game. A random happen stance of statistics, I'm sure, but it does support the claim that officials don't take as well to inexperienced coaches giving it to the ref.
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I know they are looking at it wrong
 
Panarin - 4 points
Mika - Goal
Kreider - Goal
Fox - 2 points

Wasn’t a total loss. Should have played Hank. Oh well.
 
I also can't believe so many people are complaining so much still about the same crap. "Quinn can't fix the d, he's costing us points" who...cares.

This is a very young, still bad team. Without more experience we will see this same thing with almost any coach. It's funny how often people here forget about all the games we hang in there and BEAT teams we have no business beating.

Not to mention...points? This is a non playoff team!

Next season we should win. Right now? It's gravy. Remember we're INSANELY LUCKY we got panarin, trouba and fox. This is a very bad team overall
 
JHS said:
That was a follow through after a clearing attempt and therefore not a call. You guys who complain about officiating just don’t get it. Quinn complains after every call — every single one— and he does it visibly which the refs view as showing them up( I’ve officiated hockey for 22 years.). There are ways to disagree with officials and still show respect, send the captain over, call the ref over between periods at the start before the cameras are back on, during a tv timeout when the cameras are not on,etc and Quinn chooses the opposite. He shows them up and makes a scene. It’s a low class move and it’s why not a single official gives him a break. He’s developed a reputation as being a guy who shows them no respect( its obvious because this issue with the Rangers getting screwed is not isolated to one game here and there) and no he is suffering. It’s a ballsy move for a second year coach with literally no track record in the NHL to take. We can just add it to the list of Quinn failures.
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They're so incompetent that I hope he keeps doing it. Eff the refs. IDC if they lose. It's a success in my book anytime a ref gets called out for egregious incompetence. Reffing and coaching has never been worse in the nhl and NFL. Although I blame the league for the NFL decline. So many idiotic rules being added

There are times I am yelling at an awful call only to find out it's the right call bc of a change implemented in the last three years
 
Inferno said:
The refs make a ton of money for playoff games .it's something like 4x a regular game. They want to do playoffs ..it's a lot of money for them... They lose the playoffs for poor in season reffing or within the playoffs themselves.

No ref is going to be intentionally biased or betting on games, you guys sound like my paranoid family members who are legit suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (it runs in my family). There is no bias, there is no gambling, there's just refs who had a bad game.

Did anyone complain about how bad the refs were in the canes game where we got away with a blatant double minor high sticking call? No. Were the refs betting on the rangers in that one? Was one of them from Connecticut or something? Come on guys... Show a little more sense than this.

I'd you've ever played any sport, at any level, you know there's always bad reffing. Always. Always always.
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Yep, there’s always bad reffing. And when guys get paid to do a job they should get crap for doing it poorly. Everyone else in the sport does.

How long does Quinn need to stand quietly like a school boy before the refs decide it’s ok for him to question them? Because Torts certainly wouldn’t have put up with it.

Also I don’t believe I was pushing conspiracy theories so please be careful with the “you guys”.
 
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JHS said:
He’s a second year NHL coach with 0 credibility. That’s a lot different than Scottie Bowman laying into a ref.
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Ok so you’re saying refs DO have some kind of system? Now how about a first year ref? Can DQ rip him a new one because he hasn’t “earned” whatever it is?
 
Inferno said:
All reffing is not bad. Every ref has bad games.
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I have been watching the NHL for 50 years and this year the officiating has been especially bad. Numerous times this year I have seen the ref standing right next to an offending player and nothing is called. Then moments later a phantom hook is called, wtf.
 
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This is a bad coach. Might be good with the guys but the talent we have I’m watching. Way worse teams play with much more structure. I gotta think this is going to be Quinn’s last year. There are going to be good coaches avail DeBoer right now is out there I’d hire him today
 
By the way it’s time to switch Kakko and Buch. Buchy cannot do anything on that line that’s red hot. And frankly Buchy and Chytil have shown a ton of chem. Flip those two.

bring up Rykov I’m tired of watching Staal and honestly Lindgren. I think he’s at best a 6 7 dman.
 
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