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Post-Game Talk: #3 - 10/07/18 | RANGERS @ hurricanes | 5:00 - MSG

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I love the 7.24 GAA Georgiev is sporting. Need to get him back out there to hopefully get it back under 5. Shit.
 
How many leads did we cough up? Four?

Though I will admit that an 8-5 final score sure brought me back to my childhood.
 
Edge said:
How many leads did we cough up? Four?

Though I will admit that an 8-5 final score sure brought me back to my childhood.
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A nice 7-6 OT game last night between the Hawks and Leafs, too. The beginning of the season always has these crazy ass games, although I think the trend of scoing going up is gonna continue.
 
staal needs a vet rest day soon or an "injury" day off or 2.

hes the weakest link for sure but he isnt as bad as most here are making him out to be. hes one of many.

sure the eye test shows the player described here but the entire defense has been pretty average. pionk and shatty have been just as bad so far.

staal cant handle a puck, cant shoot and cant make or receive a pass. he still moves ok and has that reach. hes a one dimensional dman and should be rotated in and out of the lineup.

at this point hes is strictly defensive player who should play 3rd pair matchup minutes. only.

shatty has been worse and pionk not much better so lets be real.
 
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offdacrossbar said:
staal needs a vet rest day soon or an "injury" day off or 2.

hes the weakest link for sure but he isnt as bad as most here are making him out to be.

his metrics dont show the atrocious player described here. the entire defense has been pretty average. pionk and shatty have been just as bad so far.

staal cant handle a puck, cant shoot and cant make or receive a pass. he still moves ok and has that reach. hes a one dimensional dman and should be rotated in and out of the lineup.

at this point hes is strictly defensive player who should play 3rd pair matchup minutes. only.

shatty has been worse and pionk not much better so lets be real.
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Yeah I mean really we knew the defense was going to be bad. Skjei was the only one that I liked through the first 2 games and even he didn't look great last night IMO.

I said it before but with the emphasis on trying to step up in the neutral zone or defensive blueline, they're going to get burned for these odd man rushes until they work out how to execute those better. Forwards have to be ready to cover in case the puck gets past the defenseman, defensemen need to be able to read the play and know when it's better to step up and when to back off.

As much as it sucks to see this game slip away from them and start 0-3, I also can't say I'm upset or concerned about much of anything yet. Having some days off to reset, get some practice in, and hopefully come out with a complete game should help.
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
This season, I'm not going to lie I'd rather had D like Hajek/Lindgren playing top minutes in the AHL and let Staal be the 7th or play at the NHL level for this season. At least at this current point in their development. Get tons of ice time, get used to the organizational system and play in all situations.

A player like ADA is at a point in his development where he needs to be playing at the NHL level.
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ADA, needs to be playing. .. because with Lias, not ready this year this was a bad trade/ draft for Gorton...
 
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Mac n Gs said:
Their worst forward relative to expectations has been Zucc. He's plodding out there, making bad reads in the defensive zone, and he just hasn't been the catalyst that we know he can be. If he's hurt, I'll let it slide. However, this seems solely like an effort issue, and if he's going to pout and whine his way through the year, get rid of him now. He has the opportunity to step up and make this his team, and it's been disappointing to watch him.

I was glad to see Hayes and Namestnikov have nice bounce-back games. Kreider had a really strong game too. Chytil and Howden had strong games again as well, and I'm glad Howden is finally getting the recognition he deserves here.

Play Deangelo more.
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That's just how Zucc plays...when he's scoring he's engaged and all over, when he's struggling he looks bad defensively, throws a lot of bad blind low percentage passes around, and struggles to make an impact. For as much crap as Kreider gets for being inconsistent, it's the same thing with Zuccarello.

He'll bounce back. I don't even think his first two games were bad, especially the first game, but not everyone just hits the ground running at the start of the season.

I'm hoping Quinn doesn't bench or demote Chytil yet. Guy looks like he can play at this level and the points will come as things settle down. And as you say, hopefully DeAngelo sticks in the lineup. Him finally getting some points last night was nice...and I love how he's the only D since McDonagh to actually try to open up shooting lanes by faking shots, moving around, etc.

edit: As for Pionk, I feel my frustration with his game is kind of like my frustration with Vesey. They're guys who are being told they're more talented than they are and they try to do a little too much on the ice. Like Vesey...even playing well he keeps doing some dumb shit because he's trying too hard. He'll make a good forechecking play, get the puck, skate it up the boards to the blueline and then lose it near the blueline because he'll try a no look dump back into the zone and the other team is waiting for that. He does this multiple times per game. Dude, just make the simple play a bit more often, you're not a top tier stick handler puck possession guy, stop trying to be one.

With Pionk, just dial the game back a bit dude. Stop trying to be everywhere and do everything. Play within yourself first, work out your positioning, then try to play a bit more aggressively once that part works. I feel like he's being sold as this "so skilled can do everything" defenseman and he's just not.
 
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Send Pionk down. Not that I think he shouldn't be playing, but no way mcquaid is coming out of that lineup. Get him big minutes in hartford and once mcquaid is traded he can come back full time. We need to find out what we have in ADA and tbh he deserves to be on the roster full time after his preseason play.

I hate seeing staal in the lineup. The game has flown and gone way over his head now, but he does help the tank.
 
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will1066 said:
Skjei/ADA would be disastrous. Both play high-risk.
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I think the knock on Skjei's high risk game is overblown.

Some people see him get caught up ice and want to pin scoring chances/goals against in these instances on him but if he has support (and he usually does), it isn't his fault most of the time.

I too think that Skjei and ADA would mesh well together. They may f*** up royally on occasion but they'll do more positive and negative.
 
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offdacrossbar said:
staal needs a vet rest day soon or an "injury" day off or 2.

hes the weakest link for sure but he isnt as bad as most here are making him out to be. hes one of many.

sure the eye test shows the player described here but the entire defense has been pretty average. pionk and shatty have been just as bad so far.

staal cant handle a puck, cant shoot and cant make or receive a pass. he still moves ok and has that reach. hes a one dimensional dman and should be rotated in and out of the lineup.

at this point hes is strictly defensive player who should play 3rd pair matchup minutes. only.

shatty has been worse and pionk not much better so lets be real.
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The underline is exactly his problem. The bold is exactly the solution.

Give it 15 more games. I don't see Staal improving, he's going to be stapled to the 3rd pair soon enough
 
Jimbo really f***ed Staal to star the season. It was officially those two that were going to be the whipping boys but Jimmy decided to become a power forward.
 
Ola said:
IMO, not a bad day yesterday for us.

I look at the Tor-Chi blowout, Was-Pitt had one. Our game against Carolina. The game is changing, relevant information this off season would not have been that a player lost 20 lbs but if a player had NOT lost 20 lbs.

We will be helped by having a young team in this environment.

I liked how our kids looked. Names is what he is, let’s make the best of that situation.

The ice berg I see and feared for a while is the vets we have on the blueline. I see a game that is changing for defensemens quite much. It has been going on for a while, it’s a very mobile game. We have the 5th most expensive blueline in the NHL and all vets have 3 years left. I don’t think anyone’s trade value will go up from here on.

I remember seing a post stating something finally everyone will see how a healthy Shatty looks this summer, and my thought was ‘that is exactly what I am afraid of’. I don’t really agree with the haters, on many teams I wouldn’t have minded having Shatty around at all for a year or two. But he is the 15th highest paid D in the entire league. He must play at a high level to be moveable at all.

This is a ice berg that isn’t going away in three full seasons, and the cost of steering around it can turn into astronomical numbers the longer we wait. I am sorry if I keep harping about it, but I am just surprised of the total lack of awareness around the organization in relation to it.
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No one will even mention how Gorton further wrecked the defense in recent years.

We are no better than 2-3 years ago. In fact, we are clearly worse defensively, and we don't have any real high upside young defensemen to show for it. Three big contracts on the back-end, as well.
 
The Pionk hate on this website is down to one thing. Advanced stats.

Lets all just be up front about that.

I don't think the guy has been great, but I am perplexed at how anyone can watch these games, and pick him out as a problem with our defense. Was he even at fault for any goals yesterday?
 
Go Away Staal said:
I think the knock on Skjei's high risk game is overblown.

Some people see him get caught up ice and want to pin scoring chances/goals against in these instances on him but if he has support (and he usually does), it isn't his fault most of the time.

I too think that Skjei and ADA would mesh well together. They may **** up royally on occasion but they'll do more positive and negative.
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If the forwards cooperate and backcheck, yes. I think Skjei needs to pick his spots better when pinching at the offensive blue line. Skjei likes to carry the puck while ADA makes the great passes. Could be incredibly dynamic though still risky when the team is trying to get comfortable defensively.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
No one will even mention how Gorton further wrecked the defense in recent years.

We are no better than 2-3 years ago. In fact, we are clearly worse defensively, and we don't have any real high upside young defensemen to show for it. Three big contracts on the back-end, as well.
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Let's get something straight. The guys we have are here from AV's tenure. AV's system was horrendous defensively with no actual system. AV wrecked the defense, not Gorton.

Beyond that, you have Sather handing Staal at 6 year deal back in 2014, and then Gorton handing Smith that 4 year deal over a year ago. Smith made sense, and Shattenkirk, given that the only guy we unloaded was Stepan when we had Hayes and Zib ready to step in, wasn't a bad move.

Nobody saw those two *PLAYERS* (Smith and Shatty) going down like they did. Staal on the other hand is inexcusable, and Gorts is trying to clean the mess up.


for the 2018-19 deadline I foresee this:
Hayes traded for a 1st
Zucc traded for a 1st
One of Spooner/Names unloaded for a mid to late pick
Shattenkirk keeps improving, it's been quite awhile since he's played

for 2019-20, I foresee this:
Rangers earn a top 5 pick, get one of Hughes/Turcotte/etc
Letteri nails down a regular top 9 spot
Vesey continues developing into the middle 6 spot he's supposed to have
Pionk Nails down the 3rd pairing spot
Shattenkirk works that Top pair spot well
Hajek looks ready to go
Staal Buyout
ADA taking the 2nd pair spot
Sign Panarin
Smith won't improve, but he won't decline much either
Andersson takes a top 9 roster spot

None of those feel like reaches to me, they are things we are already seeing happen. Chytil is the biggest wildcard right now, and I've no idea what Kravstov will look like when he comes over. The rest of the picks from the 2018 draft will not be ready next year barring any surprises
 
Kovalev27 said:
Is ada really high risk though? I don’t see him caught up ice ever. He and Skjei have looked great together when given the chance.
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He skates too well to be considered high risk. The guy is ready to take a full time 2nd pairing spot at 23, that's huge for this teams future.

Pionk, while he looks OK, if it comes down to the team needing a spot for ADA, will go down.
 
TheTakedown said:
Let's get something straight. The guys we have are here from AV's tenure. AV's system was horrendous defensively with no actual system. AV wrecked the defense, not Gorton.

Beyond that, you have Sather handing Staal at 6 year deal back in 2014, and then Gorton handing Smith that 4 year deal over a year ago. Smith made sense, and Shattenkirk, given that the only guy we unloaded was Stepan when we had Hayes and Zib ready to step in, wasn't a bad move.

Nobody saw those two *PLAYERS* (Smith and Shatty) going down like they did. Staal on the other hand is inexcusable, and Gorts is trying to clean the mess up.


for the 2018-19 deadline I foresee this:
Hayes traded for a 1st
Zucc traded for a 1st
One of Spooner/Names unloaded for a mid to late pick
Shattenkirk keeps improving, it's been quite awhile since he's played

for 2019-20, I foresee this:
Rangers earn a top 5 pick, get one of Hughes/Turcotte/etc
Letteri nails down a regular top 9 spot
Vesey continues developing into the middle 6 spot he's supposed to have
Pionk Nails down the 3rd pairing spot
Shattenkirk works that Top pair spot well
Hajek looks ready to go
Staal Buyout
ADA taking the 2nd pair spot
Sign Panarin
Smith won't improve, but he won't decline much either
Andersson takes a top 9 roster spot

None of those feel like reaches to me, they are things we are already seeing happen. Chytil is the biggest wildcard right now, and I've no idea what Kravstov will look like when he comes over. The rest of the picks from the 2018 draft will not be ready next year barring any surprises
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I'm not going to disagree about AV's effect, but he didn't trade for Smith, and then sign him to a contract. He didn't sign Shattenkirk.

You can say that the moves made sense, and its a fair viewpoint to say they did, but some people didn't think they did. I never thought Smith was a good player. Never wanted to trade for him, never wanted to re-sign him. I'm not going to brag about it. You get some right and get some wrong, but it wasn't unanimous that a player who was getting healthy scratched by the worst defense in the league at the time deserved a big contract within a year of that.

I also didn't want the Shattenkirk signing. Did we have cap room? We did, but just because you have cap-room doesn't mean you need to add any good player on the market. I didn't think the team was at a point where they should've been adding "win now" players like that. In fact, the team almost certainly held back DeAngelo by that signing after they traded for him as a big piece of the Stepan trade.

I think the things you listed for 2018-19 are all realistic, as long as Zuccarello and Hayes have decent seasons up to the deadline. Some of the things for 19-20 aren't as realistic, in my opinion, especially on the defensive side of things. I think this team is in a big hole defensively, and its not just for this year. We already suck this year, and all the problems with the NHL team defensively don't impact the team that much, considering we were always going to be bad, and this just helps that. We are rebuilding.

As for the rebuild, we had an opportunity in the last draft that was stacked with defenseman with top pairing upside to take one of them. We passed on many of them, and took yet another winger. We still don't even know that Chytil and Andersson can play the middle of the ice. They might have to be wingers. The upcoming draft is stacked with forwards and low on defensemen. Where are the big upside defensemen on the team or in the system? I don't see it.
 
Beginning to remember why I divorced myself from this place for years. Was sick to death of the mindless Vesey bashing weeks ago... and the equally vaporous "Pionk vs DeAngelo" "logic" is hitting me the same way. Dear dumba**es, they should clearly BOTH be playing, and comparing them endlessly to one another like you NEED one of them to fail is just sad. Based on what we're seeing so far, most of the D is simply going to get one night off every few games, and that had better include Staal and Shattenkirk based on their contributions or lack thereof.

And, oh yeah, that McQuaid clown is just a joke, isn't he? What in blazes did we need with THAT loser during a rebuild? Can't WAIT to sell him off in February!!! Uh huh.

Give me a break. Give us ALL a break. Too many of these bandwagons that too many are jumping on are headed right over a cliff.
 
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